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Shadow Master Hell Viable?

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by bwong, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. bwong

    bwong IncGamers Member

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    Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    Is shadow master a Hell viable skill without investing heavily into +skills for it? Because my level 24 Shadow master doesn't seem to be doing much in hell anymore. Is it primarily used as just a chunk of meat between you and the burning hells?
     
  2. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    If you rely on it for damage then its not really viable, no.
     
  3. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    If you rely on it for damage, better go with the shadow warrior, at least you can decide what she does. Even then, it's only nice for some builds really.

    I've got a grenadier (fireblast and shockweb), and I noticed 20 points in shadow warrior gave me more net damage than maxing another synergy. That's cause fireblast is a spammable spell (other traps have a max of 5 shared between you and your shadow). IIRC, there's also the fact that the slvl of a skill used by a warrior/master is the mean between the lvl of the shadow and your lvl in the skill, so pumping up the warrior makes sense in some rare cases and nutty builds. Wouldn'd do it with any MA or standard trapsin though...
     
  4. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    Looked it up on some other forums, and the lvl shadows use their skills at is the sum of shadow lvl/3 + skilllvl/2. According to what I found at the AB these skill lvls are AFTER +skills. So you could get lvl 30 in a skill and cast a lvl 30 shadow (prebuff), then the shadow would use this skill at a whooping lvl 25.

    Also, shadows have a memory of those skills. You cast a shadow, and the first time she uses a skill, the calculation gets made and the shadow saves the result in a list that stays with her untill recast. This list is also used for synergies. So if you force shadow warrior to cast shockweb, then fireblast, both skills get in the list and the result will be your shadow warrior will be throwing synergised blasts and webs. Only thing I wasn't able to confirm was what lvl is used for synergising (imagine the previous example of your shadow having slvl 25 FB, don't know if this is lvl 20 or 25 for synergy calculations).

    So in practice you could get some prebuff gear in stash to prebuff and cast SW/SM, then go to act 1, get on your +traps skill gear, let SW/SM cast all different traps, go back to town, get your actual lvling gear on and have a shadow with higher synergies than yourself. I don't know what you all call hell viable, but a shadow warrior throwing 4000 dmg fireblasts can allways find a place by my side...


    Edit: so to the OP, no it's not possible of getting high damage out of this without heavy skill investment, but in some builds a shadow can more than double your damage output if used right.
     
  5. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    Actually you can get a pretty hefty FB since effectively every "trap" synergizes it. On my pure trapper, its her secondary element at 4-5k dmg.

    While I've read you can get SM's with higher trap damage than your own, the time and effort it takes to get her to synergize is not really worth it, especially if she dies.
     
  6. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    I'm lvling a grenadier assassin (FB as main attack) that is around lvl 50 atm. I noticed that with proper use of shadow warrior I could double my damage output, and I will never go back:

    I tried two skillsets:

    old one (no shadow):

    20 FB
    10 SW
    one in every prereq for DS
    10 DS

    gives me around 220 damage per FB.


    new one (with shadow):

    20 FB
    20 shadow warrior
    1 in all fire and light traps

    gives me around 180 damage per FB
    gives shadow warrior around 260 damage per FB


    Only downside is the lower lvl of DS, but that will be fixed as soon as I get some extra lvls.

    Yeah, with SM this is a pain. Much less with the warrior though, as you decide wht skills she uses. And using FB instead of the conventional traps also solves the problem of the 5 trap limit.



     
  7. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

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    Re: Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    While to each their own, consider this

    All lite traps synergize FB - shadows and FB do not synergize each other (well except for extra shots from FB)

    200-300 dmg is insignificant in the long run - you have to remember your damage as you get higher

    While I could get use SW, I don't because

    I prefer where I lay my traps
    I don't worry if she goes bye bye
    She doesn't attack as fast as I do
    my fb is over 5k and I don't have a delay between my attacks

    Though really, FB is meant as a secondary as in hell you'll find plenty of fire immunes and the delay between throws depending on distance can be quite long. I've found myself killing baal with Fire I threw as he was teleporting away - watching them float really gives you an idea of the delay between throw and contact.
     
  8. Tumbleweed

    Tumbleweed IncGamers Member

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    Re: Shadow Master Hell Viable?

    In my experience, Shadow Master makes a very durable tank. I believe Shadows get an in-built 50% damage reduction, and I think at high level and with the right "virtual gear" she can spawn immune to one or more elements, and with Fade on top of all that she is perhaps the most resilient summon in the game. Plus she casts Mind Blast and an occasional Death Sentry. When fighting Act bosses, she usually Dragon Flights into the boss' face and takes the first hit, buying you time to close the distance and engage the boss or to lay down your traps.

    On the other hand, she doesn't do much in the way of damage. She also has the bad habit of teleporting herself towards monsters before you even know they're there, sometimes picking fights when you'd rather she didn't.

    So if you need an extra tank (I usually do when playing Trappers), SM is the best. If you don't, you can invest those 20 points elsewhere.
     

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