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Shadow Master and Shadow Warrior Information that everyone should understand

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by lextalionis, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    Shadow Master and Shadow Warrior Information that everyone should understand

    Lightning Trapper Guide
    By DaVinci

    Shadows:

    The sci-fi series LEXX, uses a greeting “I worship his shadow†which is very indicative of the assassins ability to summon a shadow helper. There are 2 kinds of shadows, the “weak†one named shadow warrior and the “strong†one named shadow master. While the master is the strongest, the warrior can be controlled much more. I’ll leave it up to you which to use, if any.


    WARNING: There is a maximum of 5 traps allowed on the ground at any given time, traps put there by a shadow does also count towards this.



    Skills and Synergies:



    The level of a shadows skills are based on this formula.

    (1/2 of your skill (round down)) + (1/3 of shadows level when summoned (round down)) remember to also count any +skill. 1 is the minimum value for these calculations.



    Example 1:



    You have skill level 28 Shadow Warrior when using switch claws with +3 shadow disciplines. You cast your warrior. Now you switch to your lightning sentry which is skill level 33. So your warrior will use a (28/2) + (33/3) = 14 + 10 = lightning Sentry skill of 24, which is not bad. If only she had the same synergies as you do.



    WHAT she does ?



    Something new is that your shadow will remember used skills and use them as a synergy later on.



    Example 2:

    You summon your shadow at skill level 35. and then watch her cast every lightning sentry synergy trap there is, at your skill level of 36. This will make her end up with a lightning sentry damage of 11 – 6978, which is more that you will do. The reason for this, is that + skills count as synergies for the shadow while they do not for you.



    Example 3:

    You summon a skill level 20 shadow, and make her learn your skill level 20 Phoenix Strike and it’s synergies which you have at skill level 1. When you do the calculations, you will find that you shadow now uses a skill level 16 Phoenix Strike, but with skill level 7 synergies, whereas you still only have skill level 1 synergies.



    When the shadow dies or you recast her, she needs to learn all synergies again.



    All in all, the selection of a shadow and how many points you want in her, has now become another matter indeed.



    General Shadow Information:



    The Master can still become the best shadow, but the warrior will be easier to teach synergies to. Which you prefer is up to you, but keeping her alive is now paramount.

    You should always summon your shadow and try to keep her alive, since this way she will do much more damage.

    Another thing you would want to do, is keep a high level armor around, and a diadem or corona with +3 shadow disciplines, and equip them when you summon your shadow. This will allow her the chance of much higher affixes and much better defense.

    When you walk instead of running, your shadow tends to do more ranged fighting, this is nice to know for a trapper.

    If you find a skills shrine, recast your shadow, and re teach her.

    Shadows have a base physical damaged reduced of 40%, having her cast a skill level 10 or better fade, get her to the 50% cap. (I don’t know if the cap of 50% applies for shadows, perhaps then can get much higher?



    Shadow Resistances:



    Both the warrior and the mater gets a lot of resistance. They get their own level x 4, with a cap of 75 for the warrior and 85 for the master. This cap only applies to resistance gained from this formulae, so with a high level fade you could make a shadow immune to fire/cold/lightning and poison. The master uses diminishin returns on his resistance, while the warrior does not. This is offset by the bonuses he gets per level.



    Warrior:

    The warrior makes use of the skills, which you use at any given time. This means she will be a trapper if you are. It will look cool having 2 assassins, using the same spells however. The warriors’ equipment are always magical versions of yours, and does not change.



    Master:

    The master can use any skill that an assassin has available, and she does so using the same formula as the warrior. While the master is much better, in terms of life/defense and so on, and will survive much longer that a warrior, it will also often cast the cloak of shadows spell, which is hated by many party members. The equipment a master spawns with varies upon her spell level. So if you want to use her, make sure she is at least level 17.



    At level 1, Master spawns with superior suwayyah/war fist/scissors suwayyah on their right hand. Superior battle cestus/runic talon on their left hand. Superior version of your own armor's base item
    At level 5, Master spawns with superior bramble mitts/vambraces/orge gauntlets
    At level 6, Master spawns with magical version of your own armor's base type. Magical version of your own helm's base type. Magical bramble mitts/vambraces/orge gauntlets. Magical suwayyah/war fist/scissors suwayyah on their right hand. Magical battle cestus/runic talon on their left hand
    At level 9, Master spawns with magical right ring
    At level 11, Master spawns with rare version of your own armor's base type. Rare version of your own helm's base type. Rare right ring and a rare bramble mitt/vambraces/orge gauntlets. Rare suwayyah/war fist/scissors suwayyah on their right hand and finally a rare battle cestus/runic talon on their left hand
    At level 13, Master spawns with rare left ring
    At level 17, Master spawns with rare amulet

    END QUOTE

    With this you could cast a SW and max him, then force him to cast every trap with a synergy for FB. This should give her a ridiculous level of Fireblast unachievable by assassins. This way SW wouldn't be removing your LS's and could do some decent damage with its FB.

    Synopisis of the above. SW and SM start without any synergies. But once they've cast a spell they acquire it and then they will have it at the level they cast it at previously as a synergy.

    This tactic might be even more beneficial to PS's who can double their damage in this way. I"m not sure if its practical for TS/DTail builds. But even a DTalon build might be able to use this to force a SW to use Blades of Ice with its synergy in PS. That could be pretty darn useful. And not impossible since the SW should use your RButton for charge ups which could be BoI, which you would never use, and then you could use LButton DTalon for your DTalon crushing blow or OW or Elemental Damage, and the SW would use that as a release. Effectively it would give you a minion constantly casting FO on the screen which would be nice for the chill and could be decent damage as well if properly built.
     
  2. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    BEFORE ANYONE POSTS -- UNDERSTAND I'M NOT TAKING CREDIT FOR THIS: DaVinci created it

    Thank you again DaVinci. I hope you don't mind me reposting this. But I thought it was important for everyone to see. And I thought it could get lost easily in your guide. Plus this is the first I've heard of this SW and SM learning synergies phenomenon and I'm in this forum a lot.
     
  3. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    This little tidbit has ridiculous power. Pay attention. If there's anything you don't understand, Lex or I can probably explain, as we've both been following the development of this.

    In short it has the potential to let you make a Shadow Warrior capable of dropping level 25 Lightning Sentries with over +500% damage from synergies. Or level 25 Fire Blasts with +850% damage from synergies.

    tl;dr version: REAL, ULTIMATE POWER!!

    (This has been on the Lurker Lounge for a while.)
     
  4. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    I think I follow the math. I understand the possiblities. Entire builds can be done around this, and people will be going back to town because their shadow is about to die to save it. But it has lots of applications.

    You might even be able to make your SW use CS to heal itself.

    I think it makes PS viable again. Effectively its two very high level PS, instead of just yours.

    I think it boosts DTalon builds that had no where to put their extra points. Now they have places to put their extra points.

    You can make your SW cast Venom on itself, while you are using your +6 shadow claws.

    You can make your SW cast FADE on itself, while you are using your +6 shadow claws.

    But FB Damage has to be the best. LS would be of limited help, except maybe if you are a hybrid and wanted to just DTalon the whole time and left your SW to cast LS's. Since there is a limit on the number of traps on the field by you and your minions at one time.

    And because FB has five synergies. There is no way you could possibly have all of them maxed out personally. But your SW can have a decent skill level in all of them. Thus it has an enormous potential for a synergy bonus here.

    Yah, this is a major find. I think in many ways more for melee than Trappers, because of the trap limit. But still this is a great breakthru. Congrats.
     
  5. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    Hey, don't grat me, the guys at the Lurker Lounge deserve MAD props.

    Here's a sample build I read over there:

    20 Shadow Warrior
    20 Fire Blast
    1 Shock Web
    20 Charged Bolt Sentry
    20 Lightning Sentry
    1 Death Sentry
    1 Wake of Fire
    1 Wake of Inferno

    +2 Tiara and +2 Amulet, 2x +3 Shadow claws when you cast SW = level 30 Warrior
    +2 Tiara and +2 Amulet, 2x +3 Traps claws when SW deploys traps = level 30 Traps

    So every maxed trap you see there would be cast (and REMEMBERED) by the warrior at (30 / 3) + (30 / 2) = level 25.

    Every 1 point trap you see there would be cast (and REMEMBERED) by the warrior at (30 / 3) + (1 / 2) = level 10.

    So FB would have two level 25 synergies (ls, cbs) and FOUR level 10 synergies, for an amazing 90 skill points worth of synergies applied to a skill used at level 25.

    LS would have one level 25 synergy (cbs) and TWO level 10 synergies, for an amazing 45 skill points worth of synergies applied to a skill used at level 25.

    You think LS would be of *limited* help?? Your Warrior's LS would be godly! The only problem is the shared trap cap of 5... bah, let your Warrior lay all the traps! Find me an Assassin with 45+ points into Lightning Sentry synergies that isn't screwed vs LI?

    I'm trying to figure out a way to build this so that the Warrior does the FB tossing and you drop high damage LS's. Problem is, you need to max FB so that your Shadow has high level FB. Low level FB, even fully synergised, is still worthless.
     
  6. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    Ok, I think I'm starting to understand the math a bit better. Your base skill will always be higher than the SW's, but the SW can have synergies in excess of 20. Thus this leads to more overall damage. I'm not seeing a situation where the base LS would be higher than your base LS without (synergies). I do see how the SW isn't capped at level 20 synergies and this greatly helps the SW.

    Ninja's are like totally awesome. One time...
     
  7. TeKmInIbI

    TeKmInIbI IncGamers Member

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    Very interesting,
    Iv always favoured Sw over Sm when using a trapper, but Sm over Sw when using a Ma Assn.
    Could you please explain to me how they "Remember" skills?
    Iv read this post like 10times, i still dont understand much of it.
    Both Sw/Sm can Remember skills right?
    Please explain a little further...
    Im trying to understand this because my Trapper/Ma Assn could use these im sure..
    Nifty little post. ~~;


    Thnx alot to whom responds.

    TeKmInIbI
     
  8. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    Lex: Your Shadow will have the same or better skill level than you in a given trap when your skill in Shadow Warrior/Master exceeds your skill in the trap (including adders) by 1.5 times.

    Eg, when you have level 30 Shadow Warrior and level 20 Lightning Sentry, the two of you will cast LS at the same level (with different synergies).

    Tek:

    Every time your Shadow uses an ability she remembers the level at which she used it to synergize other skills.

    Her usage level is:

    (your skill in Shadow at time of casting / 3) + (your skill in the ability she is using at time of use / 2).

    ^ Yes, this number can exceed 20. Normally, synergies cannot exceed 20, but this formula takes +skills into account.

    So, switching setups from +Shadow claws when you cast her to +Trap claws when she goes to lay traps is very, very beneficial.

    It's more applicable to a Warrior because you can "force" them to cycle through various skills, therefore "remembering" each of them in turn, which then synergize the skill you finally select for her to use.
     
  9. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    They remember skills after you cast the SW or SM. Each skill that the SW casts, she "remembers" and thus has a synergy in that skill at the level the SW was capable of casting it. So if the SW attacks with level 25 PS, then attacks with level 25 FoF, the FoF will get a synergy from PS as if the SW had level 25 PS(this is more than player characters can get in synergies with the exception of from Charged items, ie the Bone Prison on Marrowalks or the Carrion Ring's level 21 poison creeper) for a synergy. The same can work for traps, really by stacking several synergies above level 20, the SW can get unreal damage on its traps.

    Every time you recast them or they die, they "forget" their synergies. So its important to make a SW cast is synergy spells once, then keep it alive so that you don't have to go thru the process of teaching them again.
     
  10. ThornDarksword

    ThornDarksword IncGamers Member

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    Let me see if I get this right.

    Assume that I make it to level 85. That is 84 + 12(quest) skill points = 96
    Max Shadow WARRIOR (20)
    Max Phoenix Strike (20)
    Max Claws of Thunder [Synergy of PS] (20)
    Max Dragon Tail [Finsher] (20)
    13 points in Pre-req/1 point wonders (Fade, Venom, Mind Blast)
    Rest in Blades of Ice (which at lvl 85 would be 3)
    =96 skill points

    GEAR
    I don't have uber gear, so I won't assume uber gear.
    Left Arm - Bartucs [+2 all, +1 MA]
    Right Arm - Jade Talon [+2 MA, +2 Shadow] ( I suppose we could use another bartucs)
    Ammy - +3 MA plus other modds
    Headgear - +3 MA plus other mods circlet
    Armor - assume something with +1 all (like vipermagi)
    Rings, Belt, Boots, gloves - lets assume no other + skills here

    That gives me
    32 - Phoenix Strike
    32 - Claws of Thunder (20 for my PS synergy)
    32 - Dragon Tail
    15 - Blades of Ice (3 for my PS Synergy)
    13 - Fists of Fire (1 for my PS Synergy)

    That gives me the following damages
    -Phoenix Strike
    ---Charge 1; Meteor 910-1020, Fire 1164-1239 per sec
    ---Charge 2; Chain Lightning 6-6264
    ---Charge 3; Chaos Ice 535-577
    -Claws of Thunder
    ---Charge 1; Lightning 2-4628
    ---Charge 2; Nova 2-2795
    ---Charge 3; Charged Bolt 2-4524


    When casting shadow warrior, switch out the claws, ammy, and headgear with +3 MA.

    Sooo..... that means, when I cast Shadow Warrior, he will be lvl 33
    Using the formula above (your skill in Shadow at time of casting / 3) + (your skill in the ability she is using at time of use / 2), and forcing your SW to use PS plus its 3 synergies you get these numbers.

    Phoenix Strike (33/3)+(32/2) = 27
    Claws of Thunder (33/3)+(32/2) = 27 (get to use this as PS synergy number)
    Blades of Ice (33/3)+(15/2) = 18 (get to use this as PS synergy number)
    Fists of Fire (33/3)+(13/2) = 17 (get to use this as PS synergy number)
    Dragon Tail (33/3)+(32/2) = 27

    That gives hte SW the following damages
    -Phoenix Strike
    ---Charge 1; Meteor 1636-1852, Fire 1548-1641 per sec
    ---Charge 2; Chain Lightning 4-5682
    ---Charge 3; Chaos Ice 784-859
    -Claws of Thunder
    ---Charge 1; Lightning 3-4108
    ---Charge 2; Nova 3-2433
    ---Charge 3; Charged Bolt 3-3981


    Is this right? If so, I'm making a PS Assassin right when I get home!
     
  11. Julius Seizure

    Julius Seizure IncGamers Member

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    stats

    Do you fellas know the str/dex gains of SW/SM for calculating kick damage? I ask this because the arreat summit states that the Valk gains 12 dex/skill level, and if the SW/SM makes similar gains to str/dex, then their kick damage would be insane (360-408 str/dex fairly easily attainable).

    I have a D-talon kicker with max fade/talon & 1 point in most Shadow skills, and had always been considering maxing SW for another source of physical damage. (LVL 76 with 36 points left over)


    You already answered my question about high lvl fade & immunity (which no one had an answer to, even though the 4 socket pdiamond shield Iron Golem/summon resist trick works), so thats sweet! Great finds!
     
  12. FitchBoy40

    FitchBoy40 IncGamers Member

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    Just played with some numbers to see how high damage could get with a trapper and her pet shadow…

    Assuming max 110 skill points:
    (20) Shadow Warrior
    (20) Fire Blast
    (20) CBS
    (20) Lightning Sentry
    (20) Death Sentry
    (3(all that is left)) Shock Web
    (1x5) (one-point wonders) Weapon Block, BoS, CoS, Fade, Mind Blast
    (1x2) (other pre-reqs) Claw Mastery, Psychic Hammer

    Equipment (chosen for most +skills… not necessarily realistic):
    Helm: +2
    Amulet: +2
    Armor: +2 (Arkaine’s Valor)
    Ring 1: +1
    Ring 2: +1
    Belt: +1 (Arachnid Mesh)
    Weapons: +6 Traps (+6 SD on switch)
    Anihilus: +1
    Grand Charms: +8 Traps (leaves 2 columns in inventory to pick up items)
    Total: +16SD (with SD claws), +24Traps (with Trap claws)

    This makes the skills…
    (36) Shadow Warrior
    (44) Fire Blast
    (44) CBS
    (44) LS
    (44) DS
    (27) SWeb
    (17) all one-point SD skills

    Using the formula of (shadow lvl/3) + (your trap lvl/2), you get the Shadow Warrior’s skills to be:
    34 (12+22) Fire Blast
    34 (12+22) CBS
    34 (12+22) LS
    34 (12+22) DS
    25 (12+13.5) SWeb

    Damage with synergies:
    SW’s Fire Blast will do 4891-5811 (5351 avg)
    SW’s LS will do 12-10092 (5052 avg)
    Your LS will do 6-7823 (3914.5 avg)

    You will also get:
    17% PDR, 62% Resist All, 80% curse reduction with Fade
    +51% attack speead, +59% R/W speed with BoS
    56% chance block with WB
    5.2 second stun, 35% chance to convert with MB
    great crowd control with lvl 17 CoS (great for keeping your Shadow alive)
    A merc to tank

    Stand back, cast Fade or BoS as the situation demands, use CoS and MB liberally, traps of course, watch your mercenary and SW, laugh… just watch out for FI/LI
    um, wow…
     
  13. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    The thing I'd watch for in a PS build with a SW is that he won't be attacking in sync with you. So you could be on charge up number 2 and he could still be on one. So you could drop a lot of relatively unsynergized Meteors instead of Chain Lightnings. I'd suggest to simplify this to simply use on of the Elemental Charge ups as the skill you are attempting to release.

    I wouldnt' use PS except as a synergy. Make it simple for your SW's AI. Left button finisher(DTail, DTalon, DC any will work), Right button your elemental claw (FoF, CoT, BoI any of these will work).

    Skill setup

    20 SW
    20 PS
    20 FoF, CoT, BoI
    20 DTail (DTalon or DClaw)

    All the normal 1 pt wonders to taste. Remember you'd be looking for as many plus skills as possible. I think DTail, being the least item dependant is the best finisher since you have no idea what equipment your SW will spawn with.
    I would thus also recommend against FoF, since you already have some good fire damage. But I'm not sure whether BoI or CoT would be better. I think its a real good question and when you arent' talking about the PS charges, I'm not sure who knows much about them.
     
  14. TeKmInIbI

    TeKmInIbI IncGamers Member

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    So ,
    This works the same way with Ts/Cs yes?
    Hmm,
    So maxing Sm (Ma Assn) would definatly be worth my time then....?
    Also, this means that since Sw uses the skills i use, then all i have to do with my trapper is cast FB/LS/DS/SW/etc and she will have an insanely huge syn. bonus and have more LS trap dmg then me?

    Hmmmm, very interesting.
    Thank-you all for helping me fully understand,
    I think ima write out a couple new builds to see what i can get Dmg wise
    (Iv been tryin to get an effective Ma Assn up-n-runnin').

    TeKmInIbI

    If i have any other questions ,
    Then ill post them here.

    Thnx again.
     
  15. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    I've been following Crystallion's discoveries over at the lurker lounge on this and have been fascinated by what he's found. I started doing tests as soon as his first post appeared. This sounds better than it is. It's not a means of getting an "uber" shadow to do the killing for you.

    The one problem with using this technique to get high damage from your SW's traps is getting her to use them regularly. Even if you have FB on the left and CoS on the right, she'll tend to go into melee as soon as the monsters get close enough. So, while it sounds good to plan on just standing back and letting her do the killing, in practice it's another story. It's a nice technique for getting more out of your shadow, but planning on her using the skills all the time is a mistake. And planning a build around it is even more of a mistake.

    jrichard
     
  16. TeKmInIbI

    TeKmInIbI IncGamers Member

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    I do see what your saying,
    but lol i have nothing but time on my hands.

    TeKmInIbI
     
  17. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    Would it work better with the AI, if you gave the SW two melee attacks to pick from?
     
  18. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    Here i think you might be on the right track. Use this as a means of adding nice extra damage to what you are already doing. The five trap limit and the tendency of the shadows to go into melee to protect you hurt a trapper trying to take advantage of this, but a melee sin would be able to get more out of this imo. The idea i'm working with right now concerning this is having a melee skill on one button and a trap on the other.

    I have a hybrid i've been working on. Had to restart here due to my playing her in single player and a recent computer problem forcing me to reload a backup of my hard drive from the day before i began leveling her. I'm thinking that i may be using the SW with the new build. For much of the time, i'll have Dtail on the left button and DS/LS on the right. Looking at the possible synergies for her, i could make a habit of leaving FB on the right button also. Although she'd use it less than the other traps.

    jrichard
     
  19. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    Oh, forgot. To whoever asked, skills.txt lists both the warrior and master's strength and dex as lvl*10. So, They get 10 pts to str and dex per level they are cast at.

    jrichard
     
  20. lextalionis

    lextalionis IncGamers Member

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    That suggests that at level 30 you would get some rather decent damage from 300 Dex, 300 Strength kicking even though you might not have the greatest boots in the world. Kick damage is pretty good. Another reason I might lean towards a DTail setup for SW.
     

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