Severely Behind the Times, Antiquated Price Guide

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
I know this isn't in the TRADING FORUM SECTION, but it seems to be a section that is only meant for trade threads. There are the price guide and price check thread, but the Price Guide is way outdated and the Price Check, rarely gets answered in any meaningful time, if at all. This makes it difficult for somebody trying to figure out an even trade in the near future.

Is there a reason that it hasn't been edited or worked on in almost 10 years? The values of runes, items that are finishing pieces for characters that are built to almost perfection, a huge change in the value of certain runes based on usefulness and being able to find them much easier. There are also the items that got flooded in, items that are still super rare and items that have gained or lost value over the progression of the game and patches. Items that lost or gained value as character and item patching got worked on.

I just wondered why there isn't a new updated PRICE CHECK GUIDE, after all of these years. I'm sure a lot of people, including me, would be willing to work on making an accurate, or at least much more accurate, price guide. Even the straight up rune to rune ratios, are quite a bit off.
 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
Problems as I see it:
- Prices can vary wildly as there is a limited trade pool.
- Everyone is waiting for “someone” to do it.

If you feel strongly about it, do it. Pool in the advice of other people who are still trading and make a draft for comments. Don’t worry about not being enough of an expert or anything, if you lead others will pitch in to help.
 

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
It would be a nightmare to keep updated, but we could include a "last traded for x-amount" for the expensive items. That would hopefully keep values up to date..
 

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't trade myself either, but I think the main obstacle is that runes are not worth much at all nowadays. So, at least for high end items, there isn’t anything like a standard currency anymore.

But instead of a “currency” value, from my perspective it could make more sense to assign values to items by an abstract score. Something like the MFO/RFL scoring tables, of course with the addition that the usefulness of the individual items is taken into account. ;)

Another aspect is rares/crafts, because IMO these are really the most valuable items in the game. Things like 2/20 amulets, rare/craft rings or gloves with specific combinations of rolls and the like... Those are the items that can still provide upgrades long after a player has found every S&U and made all the runewords in the game.
 

zemaj

Diabloii.Net Member
Reason it is so out of whack is increased rune drops... and particularly LK chests. Everything is given in base terms of runes or pgems, and even though it was known how much greater drop odds were, the full effect of what that does to rarity really hadn't impinged itself so profoundly as we see now... that and everyone was still stuck on HR drops being a really big deal (also evidenced with how Mal runes were considered rare enough to SS and report/keep a history of).

I really like @ffs ' idea with coming up with a points system... the biggest problem with that I can foresee is there will probably need to be two tables with scoring of individual mods for basis of melee and caster chars. Could be confusing, but no worse than some tourney tables, tbh.
 

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
The biggest difficulty that I forsee is participation.. If there are only 4x trades per year, then there isnt much of a "market trend" to even bother attempting to put numbers on. :(

I wonder if its possible to insert a poll into this thread? Find out how many traders/potential traders/non-traders are out there:

  1. I am 100% self found **
  2. I would trade, but am concerned with taint. - if so, would you be okay with trading for pgs/crafting material?
  3. I would trade, but don't know the value of items
  4. I would trade, but it looks too confusing
  5. I am ready to trade if more people participated
  6. I am active trader
A new PCG/Thread might help address #3 and #5, but there are a lot of #1-2 members on the forums these days..

** or, your name is @Gripphon and nobody except @nulio is capable of improving your gear. :p
 

TopHatCat64

Diabloii.Net Member
The biggest difficulty that I forsee is participation.. If there are only 4x trades per year, then there isnt much of a "market trend" to even bother attempting to put numbers on. :(
Definitely agree with you there, @DiabloTwoinDC. Honestly, we probably have less then 10 active traders right now. We always say "an item is only worth what someone will trade for it" and with so few traders, value can swing wildly from trade to trade.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with the assessment of high runes being worth less then they were in the past. Are they more common now? Sure, LK/Trav/Cow has provided a way to maximize our rune finding efficiency. However, I still find them highly valuable because they're the only way to access the true game-changers of D2 (Infinity, Enigma, Grief, etc...), as well as unlocking niche builds (Beast, Dream, etc...). Maybe I'll find them less valuable once I've made all the runewords I'm working towards, but until then...I'll gladly accept them :p

This is mainly related to the fact that I just don't have as much time to play as I used too. Like a lot of you on here, I have a full-time job and a wife. Trading for runes greatly reduces the time I spend doing rune runs, and more time towards what I really want to do, which is questing/character building
 

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
Definitely would have to be a group project. But just the fact that the thread is almost 10 years old, I thought maybe we could come up with a rough draft. I understand things wildly vary when someone is looking for something specific and that the trading scene isn't huge. But even without trades, it's a nice table to have to know what the values are considered by the majority of people on the SP Forum.

I think the rune explosion has changed things a lot. It's not hard for someone to put in the effort to get whatever runeword they want, outside of a few. Things like 5/7, 5/20, 3/20/20, 40-45 Life Skillers, 40/15 jools and the certain amulets/rings that spawn or craft close to perfect mod, a lot of those items I would say are worth a ton more versus runes now, than they were in the current sticky. Like A LOT more. Especially for people who have all the high end runewords and uniques and the only upgrades are perfecting the inventory, which is obviously super hard. Especially if you aren't using things like the imba 1.07 charms on melee characters or pulling in lots of pre patch charms that were far superior, but even those probably have a much higher value versus runes. The values on things like high end charms, 40/15, Godly rare jewels, ethereal rares with fools or 400ed cruels and IAS, etc, have to have FAR surpassed the values that the price list from 10 years ago had, when runes were a lot rarer around here. I'm quite an inefficient rune hunter, but I've gotten all sorts of high runes (Not Cham and Zod though, but Blizzard crapped on Zod and Cham a lot, compared to the easier to get Jah and Ber, for some reason) doing my slow LK/Trav/Putting around higher level areas in Hell runs.

Also a lot of the uniques, like high end Griffon's Eye, Death's Fathom, CoA, Death's Web and so on, have to have gone up much higher in price versus Runes since the 2010 edition.

I just wondered if people thought it would be something that would be worthy of updating. But maybe the fact that most people play self found, will bring no interest. Maybe it would bring more traders into the pool? I don't know. I don't trade very often, but I hate the fact that I know the values of items are way off of what they currently should be. It makes me hesitant to trade, especially if people are using the old table and I know one person is getting a pretty bad deal. Maybe an accurate list would encourage more people to get into trading, feeling comfortable. There are so many desirable items out there, that people may never find or take forever to find, but really want for a build and having a fair idea of what it is worth, would let them feel more comfortable in trading for what they want. It would be really cool to see and trade for some of the really cool items that are out there and almost impossible to acquire or people to load up their inventory with the perfect/close to perfect skillers/lifers or the great list of small charms or melee charms. It would mutually help both people, knowing someone who lucked upon a great charm, but doesn't have a lot of gear, can get a fair amount of runes or gear to help along, while getting rid of one charm that isn't going to change their character on its own. Like I have a 5 All Resist/6 MF Small Charm, that I know is a very nice charm to have, but have no idea on what value I should expect runewise or itemwise. I imagine a guy who is loaded, would like that charm and have a decent amount to offer to throw it on one of his perfect magic finding characters.

I thought maybe a group of all the knowledgeable players and the community as a whole, could debate over what they think current pricing should be and it would be a help to people who do trade or may want to start trading. But if the community sees it as a pointless effort, than I understand. I just happened to really think about it recently, realizing how old it is and how there is no real updated price guide and the thread where you ask about the value of items, gets pretty much zero responses. So it's not the easiest for people, especially newer players, to find out what value their items have.
 
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Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
@DiabloTwoinDC Well, the last one was ten years ago, so I don't think it would be too hard to keep up with. Unless people had the expectations of keeping up with it super frequently. Just updating it from the 10 year old chart, would be something very useful, I feel. The communities input could always add tweaks to it, if it seems fit.

The idea of using recent trades may be helpful, but I notice a lot of the wealthier players will offer super generous trades to the newbies. So maybe a community agreement on things would work better, as far as making the trade a genuinely honest swap, as opposed to the people who are very helpful to others in the community. They could still of course help out the newer players, but those trades I feel might make the trade values off.
 

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
@maxicek I would love to do it as I get some more free time. I'm not very crafty on the making tables and fancy stuff on here, so I wouldn't be the best bet to make the actual thread, but I can begin making a thread, trying to match the values of items, trades, find a possible currency and do all of the side work and hopefully get help from some of the community and people knowledgeable in this field. I guess it will all have to start somewhere, jotting down items, rune values updated, possible type of currency numbers for items and all that on paper and transfer it over and then get public opinion and tweaks to it, as I am sure I will have many ones that are off. Sounds like a fun project and a good way to get a decade awaited update on item values for traders or wannabe traders.
 

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
Sorry for consecutive posts. @DiabloTwoinDC Taint is probably the main reason that I fear trading. Any big ticket items or runes, especially, I have a bias, probably unfair, towards who the person is and only want to trade with people who are people that seem obvious you can trust. I pay attention to people and drop rates, admitting to using wrong programs and stuff like that, because the whole reason for this place is to have a place for legit players to play. I just wish we could trade more, knowing there aren't cheaters lurking. The bots/dupes/etc is what chased me away from b.net. This game is amazing when played at a legit level where you have to work to make a great character and get things like Enigma. Playing on a place where everyone has the same gear and it's all duped and made and people running dozens of bots 24/7. destroying the economy for a player who is MFing on his own time with one character.....

I always wonder if people would even care to come here and taint, like what is the point in doing it? It's like going to open b.net and playing legit with all the modded stuff back in the day. Or, in a way, like playing B.net legit and knowing you will never compete with the players who excessively cheat..
 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
I sent this as part of a PM discussion to @DiabloTwoinDC , but I will paste it in here too.

What I would do if i was attempting to update the guide:

  1. Make a Google spreadsheet and put all the items in it that are interesting for trade.
  2. Invite a small group to work on it
  3. Get the list agreed first.
  4. Add columns for various people to input their price estimates
  5. Use estimates to define the price.

Spreadsheet can easily be updated in the future and pasted back into a post in the SPTF. If the OP drops out, someone else can pick up the Google doc still.

Almost all the stickies are in a Google doc now, so when we updated them, I moved stuff around and highlighted to Thy where I needed help / comments. Worked pretty well I think.

Hope this helps.
 

TopHatCat64

Diabloii.Net Member
Despite my reluctance in my first post, I'd like to be part of the SPTF PCG committee.
Trading is one of my favorite things about D2 and if an updated PCG facilitates more trades/traders, then that's great.

Code:
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Why aren't we starting at 1?
 

atomicpunk

Diabloii.Net Member
What about setting up store fronts or flea market booths as a trading forum, and create a trade economy around that.

Basically list all the things you have for trade and list the items you want for them.

For example, I have a 15/15 3os AP that I'll never use, but I'll trade it for a 15ed or better unsocketed SA.

But, I do mean stores, so if a person is going to sell items in this sub forum they should provide a minimum of say 15 items for trade at all times and do their best to keep it updated. I don't know if it's possible but when it is updated it gets auto bumped to the top.

Also, because people love to window shop, provide pictures of the really awesome items you have for trade, but also list the items you are looking for. For example, I am iso a Jeweler's Thunder Maul of Ages. So if people know that then maybe they'll look the next time they see a magic TM drop.

If anything this could be a great way to make a lot of whites, blues and yellows available for trade.

Setting prices would be a daunting task as economies are as shifty as tectonic plates and almost as devastating, too.

So consider each of us making our own little nook of a store and haggle respectfully with prices. And by respectfully I mean, whenever I was looking for a specific item on the ladder, I'd always over pay. I was always aware of weasels trying to get more out of me, and this is where a formal standard such as is being hashed out in this thread can benefit as a go to arbitrator. But, to be amicable, if you can't make a deal, you can't make a deal, shake hands and move on.
 

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
I've started to re-format and condense the info from the existing PCG. However, one thing that we should do is convert all prices into a standard currency, instead of having some values listed in pgs, and others as hrs. Here are the rough values of runes that I've gone by over the years:
RUNE VALUES:
Code:
Um   - 25 pgs
Mal  - 40 Pgs
Ist  - 60 pgs
Gul  - 60 pgs
Vex  - 100 pgs
Ohm  - 125 pgs
Lo   - 200 pgs
Sur  - 300 pgs
Ber  - 400-500 pgs
Jah  - 400-500 pgs
Cham
Zod
I'd like to get as many opinions on this as possible, as this could greatly alter existing prices. So, if you have any experience trading these runes, or plan to in the future, please let's hear your 2-cents.
 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
If you assigned everything a value based on an arbitrary scale, maybe if would be easier to adjust the currency items (PGs / Runes) accordingly

For example you value everything against a Single Player Trade Value ( SPTV) or something better named.

Puck an arbitrary mid range item - Ohm rune for example = 1 SPTV. This is for current estimates only.

Rank everything relative to this.

(Just an idea - For anyone that is SW inclined, it is like Scrum story points)
 

ioupainmax

Diabloii.Net Member
If you assigned everything a value based on an arbitrary scale, maybe if would be easier to adjust the currency items (PGs / Runes) accordingly

For example you value everything against a Single Player Trade Value ( SPTV) or something better named.

Puck an arbitrary mid range item - Ohm rune for example = 1 SPTV. This is for current estimates only.

Rank everything relative to this.

(Just an idea - For anyone that is SW inclined, it is like Scrum story points)
Yes I agree, a layer of abstraction would be useful.
 
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