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Set Item Guide

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Sint Nikolaas, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

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    Set Item Guide

    I wasn't going to post it here untill it was done, however I figured more people would read here and might be able to give some constructive criticism.
    A while ago I had an idea to start making a guide with information and uses of all the set items out there. Finally I started working on it and I made a review of the first 8 set's so far. I'm planning on finishing the rest of the sets like this, then putting a part in about the combinations possible with multiple (partial) sets and also, when needed, a comparisation with unique items.

    Here's the link:

    http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload3/Set_Item_Guide.doc

    Tell me what you think about it. (Please don't say ''wow good'' or ''man.. bad'', tell me why it is either good or bad.)

    ps. It's quite a long read, I still need 24 sets and all the rest I listed and I allready have 13 pages orso :D remember the use of Ctrl-F.
     
  2. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    I thought it was pretty good..I knew most of the stuff already but for people who don't know this is a very good read. I know you're trying to be as thorough as possible, but some of the chapters are a bit long and unfocused..Maybe you could try to summarise each set, at the end and say which character should use it and at what level, maybe also list the best combo of items...like Sigons glove+boot or Death glove+belt. Maybe also an endgame section where you put in any viable (if any) uses. This is probably a lot of work, but most people don't like looking through a lot of text and it would be very nice to have a couple of lines that clearly stated the uses of a set. Then if people wanted more information they could read your more indepth analysis.

    I don't much care for PvP so this is perhaps not very constructive critiscism:)
    Maybe just omit the PvP section for low-level sets, they don't really have any uses except for Angelics...

    Good work.
     
  3. DMPI_Masher

    DMPI_Masher IncGamers Member

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    This is a good idea. I agree with Chimaira...needs to be a bit more brief. I would state the following:

    Level: ##
    Strength: high/med/low
    Dexterity: high/med/low
    Usefull features:
    (Rareity:)
    Comments:

    I would not list out all the equipment by item. People can look all that stuff up on the arreat summit. I think an easy to read synopsis would do ie:
    The entire Immortal King set is awesome.

    or

    When talking about Heavens bretheren..."This set is extremely rare...it's nice to find once. It's use is better suited to decorate the interior if your castle than to actually suit up and go killing demons and or the undead...

    - Masher
     
  4. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    I think just giving the good stats and saying 'this set is useful late game' or something is a bit too brief, but it could be cut down in the description. comment on which items are useful with others, which builds are suited to the full set, or alternatives to the set.
     
  5. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    This is a great idea Sint :thumbsup: Thanks for putting time into this project.

    I just read it through and offer a few comments. The first few I recommend to ALL guide writers:
    * Be sure to run it through Word's spell-checker to catch silly little things.
    * I suggest having another person go through it for grammar and such.
    * Maybe use some color/highlighting. It would add to readability.

    Sorry if those seem picky, but I see this as a possible add to the Strategy Compendium. Those documents become very public, and good formatting makes for good reading. Now for some stuff on the content:

    * I like the commentary a lot, but suggest breaking it into two sections per set - PvM and PvP. Also paragraph breaks would add to the readability.
    * Good guides leverage from other sources. It saves typing and helps avoid the issues noted above. In your case, you could save a lot of work, and add visual impact by linking to the set descriptions in the Arreat Summit. Example for Angelic Raiment:

    http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/sets/sets1.shtml#angelic

    This would allow you to focus on the value added commentary. It would also shorten the document, making it more appealing for the reader.

    Playing untwinked, I don't use sets, so am no help on the commentary content. Sorry.
     
  6. Quickdeath

    Quickdeath IncGamers Member

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    This is an interesting idea. As a guide it is pretty raw, but here are my thoughts.

    1. People do need to be able to look at the equipment item stats to follow the discussion, but the listing of all the equipment really affects readibility. I don't agree with the suggestion to delete the item stats and simply provide the URL of the set - that would make it hard to read as well.

    So, I suggest trying to format the item stats so they take up less room. Format them so they look like they're in two columns - put one item of a set in the right hand column and another item in the left hand column. Also, try using a smaller font for the item names and modifier stats. (maybe bolding the names of the items.) That helps the reader to skip over them but return back to them when he needs info.

    2. The discussions are the best part.

    3. Two of the classic sets can be worn at the same time - I believe its Beserker's and Hsarus' You should comment on that in the Beserker discussion.

    4. You are attempting to be comprehensive (listing everything) and systematic (going alphabetically). Review those decisions and think about if the guide wouldn't be more fun and inviting if you approached it differently. I'm afraid you may lose readship after the Angelic, Arcanna and Arctic discussions.

    You could possibly approach it like this: preserve the Classical Category and the High-level category and discuss classical first. Within each category, discuss the sets from best to work. So, in classical: Sigon's, Infernal, Civerbs, Deaths (whatever) would be discussed first. By the end of the list, as you hit Arcanna's and whatever, keep the discussions short. Bad is bad. It doesn't need lots of chatter (although calling out really dorky items like Civerb's shield was fun to read out about).
     
  7. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

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    Allright, thanks so far...

    @ Chimaira & DMP: I don't think being brief about the items is the way to go here. Remember, this guide will not be guide you will want to read entirely. It will just be too long for that, and even if you want to you would have to split it up no matter what. I could however after each time I reviewed a set make a short summary for the lazy ones.

    @bob: the ''which builds are possible'' just didn't occur yet, I don't see any difference in melee or caster in the low levels ;) However when going over the later sets I will put it in.

    @AE: yeah I know about the format and everything, but this was just a quick one put up to receive constructive critisism... It offcourse will look sharp and tight and all the other slurs you can think off when it's done ;) On the link usage (also @Quick) I don't think that will solve it, when I read a guide I tend to read it first and then click the links. I also didn't want people to shift back and forth between multiple sites when reading this, so I figured I should add all the items to the guide. I could however maybe split up the page and write on the left and put the items on the right.

    @quick: yeah I know multiple set can be worn at the same time, even better -> multiple parts of sets, this will be included in the guide, just in a stand alone section. About the alfabetical / interesting order.. well, I figured people would use the Ctrl-F more then just read trough the entire thing when they want to find information about a set, so just keeping it alfabetical seems logic to me. I also don't think if I can leave out sets or just state that they suck, if someone collected the arcanna's set and wants to know how to use it.. I have to read about it, can't just say it blows, it sure is usable. Oh and I think you mean Cleglaw's shield ;)

    Thanks :cool:
     
  8. Indemaijinj

    Indemaijinj IncGamers Member

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    I once had an idea of compiling something similar.


    Here are some suggestions:


    Put a little more emphasis on partial sets. In your text they are often placed as mere footnotes. Perhaps split up each description into: Full set, Partial set combos and lone items.

    Lone set items are sometimes useful in their own right without any other set items. Cleglaws is a prime example where the sword alone is a very low level duel (vlld) staple and the gloves are useful for archers just for the knockback.

    Another example would be Civerb's Icon. Alone I find it really nice for low level characters with a mana problem.


    Some of the later sets also have many items with are useful in their own right. Like Guillaume's Face and Whitstan's Guard off the Orphan's Call set. Or the Horadric Crest and Guardianship off Tal Rasha's Wrappings.
     
  9. Uzziah

    Uzziah IncGamers Member

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    A few comments:

    Formatting - not too bad; I would rather see links to the actual sets individually, have a link to the set that has visual components. I believe either arreat summit or diabloii.net has these sets apart from each other so you can link directly to each sets items instead of listing them.

    Use "see it here" type of links instead of giving the HTTP:// address on your guide it will look a lot cleaner.

    Highlight set names, boldface sections; or some other way to differenciate between sections.

    I know your working in Word but the formatting into the SPF is a pain in the arse one mistake takes a while to fix sometimes more than your forum edit time. If you need help with the SPF formatting let me know I can add it in pretty quickly from a MSword document. I have used it alot with my guides.

    Learn to use lists for some information, bullets, numbers or letters seperate and define things better. For instance;

    Exceptional & Elite Sets
    1. Aldur’s Watchtower
    2. Bul-Kathos’ Children
    3. Cow King’s Leathers
    4. The Deciple
    5. Griswold’s Legacy
    6. Heaven’s Brethren
    7. Hwanin’s Majesty
    8. Immortal King
    9. M’avina’s Battle Hymn
    10. Natalya’s Odium
    11. Naj’s Ancient Vestige
    12. Orphan’s Call
    13. Sander’s Folly
    14. Sazabi’s Grand Tribute
    15. Tal Rasha’s Wrappings
    16. Trang-Oul’s Avatar

    I will leave the grammer and spelling/typos for later when you can much closer to completing the guide. That's more of a second draft type of issue.
     
  10. Chimaira

    Chimaira IncGamers Member

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    Not to be an ass or anything but that was exactly what I suggested...Sorry but I absolutely hate it when people misunderstand what I write:)

    I really feel that linking to the sets would be a very bad idea...When you are looking and comparing you want the stats/mods right in front of you instead of having to switch pages all the time...will be much easier to manage. And as you said, when people read this most often they will be looking at a specific set instead of reading the whole guide....so even if it is going to be rather mammoth I don't think it will be too much of a problem, if you use the search function.
     
  11. Lucky_Seven

    Lucky_Seven IncGamers Member

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    I can't open the file :(
     
  12. Thirty-Thirty

    Thirty-Thirty IncGamers Member

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    Perhaps the kind of information available in this guide should just be put with the descriptions of the sets themselves. I imagine this could be put with the info on diabloii.net? That's my 2 cents worth there...

    As for briefness, any piece of writing is served well by a descriptive introduction which summates whats potting. (Works for my experiment reports.) And I agree the info on partial sets is worth including: there are many high end sets that are more often seen used partially, often for particular cases.
     
  13. Bazhell

    Bazhell IncGamers Member

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    A work in progress, but definitely a project that should be completed.

    I liked the suggestion about double columns, changing font size, and colors for the items. I agree that the data needs to be in the guide, but this way it would take up less space.

    One thing that you might be careful about is the comment you made about the Death set sash. I got a chuckle out of it since I've got three and have probably thown away at least two more. On the other hand I haven't found the gloves, but have found over half of the original set items.

    Which raises another possibility for an item in the guide, where is the best place to find these items. There have been a number of discussion on this that would help if you were interested in adding this.
     
  14. DMPI_Masher

    DMPI_Masher IncGamers Member

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    Originally posted by Bazhell

    This is a good idea...however, most set items are not from the same TC when completeing the set. Nik would need to research every item and I don't feel this is where he should focus his efforts. ATMA already does this job.


    I agree with Indemaijinj about highlighting combo's of sets that work well with each other.

    In the end I think there'll be a high quality product for us to pour over.

    - Masher
     

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