Sept Sept Finished & Summary

sirpoopsalot

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

It's significantly because of you and your countless tidbits of "out-of-the-box" knowledge that I've enjoyed trying several ideas that were 'against' the common opinion. For eye-openers like "The Occulus' ctc teleport isn't annoying, but instead it can be a safety device if you plan for it", many of my D2-experiences will always be in your debt.

So, "congrats" are (obviously) in order, but I've enjoyed your writeups and knowledge for so long, that I think "thanks" is a more appropriate sendoff.

Thanks Nightfish. :wave:
 

Chymaera

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Congratulations and Thanks for your Septsept.

I hope you can find similar challenges in your future
 

factotum

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Congratulations, Nightfish, awesome achievement! At the rate I'm going I won't even have achieved 5 Pat/Mats before D3 comes out, much less ten times as many hardcore...
 

Cius

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Thanks NF. Really enjoyed following you on your journey. Thanks for all the guides and advice to those less experienced than you. Happy gaming wherever you go.
 

jiansonz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Super achievement! :thumbup:

I am very humbled by the fact you got it all done when I am still only 6/7 in my quest for an SPF tourney septavirate. Apparently, I get more than half of my characters killed...

I wish I had seen you play, to see how you survive those awful stairs traps (or even early boss packs a bit further in) that have gotten me killed a disturbingly high number of times. Some of those times I can´t even see anything I could have done differently in order to survive. It was just "GG guys, you got me". And you had no such incident at all in Hell difficulty! It puzzles me.

Nightfish said:
let's be honest, normal and nightmare are just a lengthy way of character generation.
To a degree, yes, but it is also a very important treasure hunt if you don´t twink.

Things I agree with you a lot on:
* The importance of thinking what you want to achieve when you outfit or place skill points for a character. To cover the bases, and see where an improvement would matter little and where it actually does something significant.
* Crowd control is very important.
* Shadow Master is a security risk in HC.
* The best way to stay safe from an attack is to manually dodge it. I almost never walk either. The exception is for when I need to move long distances early on and stamina is an issue (and I don´t find a stamina potion/shrine nearby). It has also happened a few times in fights against Andariel, Ancients and Diablo when I have run out of stamina.

Ouch on that Conversion/Thorns death! What an awful and stupid bug.

Did you use Conversion on any of the succesful Pallies? With my only Pally Guardian, I was amazed at how good the skill was (at high levels) to keep one safe against big mobs.

We certainly get kicks out of different things, as we have discussed before. :scratchchin: We both enjoy a good monster battle and planning of characters, but (basically) you get a kick out of being powerful and figuring out good uses for underused items/skills and (basically) I get a kick out of stuggling a lot and making the most out of the resources and the situation I have. Which is why you won´t enjoy single-pass full clears and I wouldn´t be able to enjoy the game without it.
 
Last edited:

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

I am very humbled by the fact you got it all done when I am still only 6/7 in my quest for an SPF tourney septavirate. Apparently, I get more than half of my characters killed...

I wish I had seen you play, to see how you survive those awful stairs traps (or even early boss packs a bit further in) that have gotten me killed a disturbingly high number of times. Some of those times I can´t even see anything I could have done differently in order to survive. It was just "GG guys, you got me". And you had no such incident at all in Hell difficulty! It puzzles me.
Hm, hard to tell, really. Especially with just the abstract concept of the stair trap to work with... It depends on a lot on what kind of monsters jump you. Can tell you one thing though, it's not due to save&exit that these things don't get me.

You're probably right, it is hard to tell without seeing each other play. I can safely say I cannot recall ever dying to stair traps. I guess part of it is good reflexes on the rejuvs, and never letting my life dip below 80% or so without popping a red one. I figured out pretty early in my HC carreer that potions are cheaper than new characters and that it's much easier to maintain full life if you use a red one early instead of trying to use a purp just before you die.

Part of it may be character planning. Either my chars are built to last, in which case I have little trouble tanking multiple boss packs. Or they have good crowd control, in which case they can just... well, control the crowds, I guess. Or they have some manner of escaping, in which case they will just run from trouble. A lot of things I just plain dodge by not being there when the attack lands. Like gloams, last time I didn't feel like clearing the second area in act 4 and just ran through, 10-20 gloams firing at me. Took only a few red pots to cover the entire area, they just didn't hit me very often. I can't tell if this is true for you, but a lot of people seem to neglect the fact that you can just plain avoid attacks like you would on a console game like Zelda or super mario.

I don't really think it's the HP, unless you go to hell with less than 700 on a regular basis. Maybe resistances...

If I had a good program to record these things I could do a run or two and see if that gives you an insight, but I don't have one. Also, more likely than not the recording session would be the one time I do die. Although that would be funny in it's own right, I guess.


One thing that very nearly got me on my last guardian was beetles. I never have problems with them, but somehow my bear took a ton of damage from the bolts. I wasn't quite able to figure out why. He had 80% resistance and 2k life. Still he took an incredible amount of damage. I assume because of his size he somehow got hit by all the bolts instead of just one. Even though I was totally unprepared for taking that much damage there, I did get my rejuvs out in time. So I guess I just am relatively fast in this. Still, I am likely no more than average on speed as I can tell when I play competetive games on the internet. A lot of people are a lot faster than me there.


Ouch on that Conversion/Thorns death! What an awful and stupid bug.

Did you use Conversion on any of the succesful Pallies? With my only Pally Guardian, I was amazed at how good the skill was (at high levels) to keep one safe against big mobs.
No, never. I don't need it and I didn't really want to try again after that first incident. If I do need crowd control on pallies I will just use darksight helm or nadir or delirium on my merc. I don't like relying on things with a relatively low chance of happening for survival. Like, 20ish percent of converting something. That's on the 5th hit on average, that's just not good enough for me. If I have 5 hits time I don't need CC at all.


We certainly get kicks out of different things, as we have discussed before. :scratchchin: We both enjoy a good monster battle and planning of characters, but (basically) you get a kick out of being powerful and figuring out good uses for underused items/skills and (basically) I get a kick out of stuggling a lot and making the most out of the resources and the situation I have. Which is why you won´t enjoy single-pass full clears and I wouldn´t be able to enjoy the game without it.
It's not as different as you think. We just use different resources, that's all. But yea, my offensive style of play is not suited for a lot of builds if they were untwinked. I doubt you could do an untwinked fendzon the way I did mine. She simply needs some items to survive, or she has to play a lot more carefully which would bore me to death. Never mind untwinked WWsins. Those rarely happen either.


I'm pretty sure I could have done a lot of my guardians untwinked, but that would be merely to prove a point, it wouldn't be something that's fun for me. So I didn't do it and if I play some more chars they won't be untwinked either for just that reason. First order of buisnes: fun. If I can make a point while I'm at it, gg. If not, I can live with that.



 

Raskah

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Congratulations on this amazing achievement! :thumbup: I guess SPF won’t be the same without your guardian threads...

Hope you stay around!
 

jiansonz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

One thing that very nearly got me on my last guardian was beetles. I never have problems with them, but somehow my bear took a ton of damage from the bolts. I wasn't quite able to figure out why. He had 80% resistance and 2k life. Still he took an incredible amount of damage. I assume because of his size he somehow got hit by all the bolts instead of just one.
That sounds like a very reasonable explanation.

My problem with beetles are mostly FE or CE ones. The FE bug may have been fixed for the most part, but it´s not quite dead, especially not in Nightmare. I avoid meleeing these elementally enchanted ones if I can avoid it. They are usually vulnerable to both physical, fire and cold, so I can often let the merc kill them.



 

SiTro

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Amazing achievement, congrats on finally finishing it!
Also for the write ups you made - despite doing so many of them they were always an entertaining read.
 

Simbacca

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

...If I had a good program to record these things I could do a run or two and see if that gives you an insight, but I don't have one...
You could just use the free FRAPS, and set it to record when going through typically difficult areas, right? Well that is if you want to do this for jiansonz.



 

Baltha

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Congrats, Nightfish. I have readen most of your guardians, and some of them inspired or amazed me. I think you are the most complete player I have ever met.

By the way, I found this part of your summary very interesting:

[...] there's a maximum amout of anything you can achieve. Defence, Life, Damage, AR,etc. It's all limited by what you can fit on your char. Now the trick is to figure out sweet spots where costs vs gains are ideal.
Could you tell me your common sweet spots?
 

Low Key

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

This thread is going to be a good "Builds to try" list.

Great achievement. Enjoy your retirement out of D2 and thanks for all you have contributed to the community! :thumbup:
 

winmar

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Thanks for everything Nightfish. I have enjoyed your superb guides and enjoy reading about your guardians. They are a great source of inspiration.

In fact, im going to create an Assassin now that i've thought about for a while but didn't start since i don't know if she is viable enough. But as you've proven, screw that!

See you in D3!
 

Nightfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Could you tell me your common sweet spots?
Well, this is pretty hard to sum up in a few sentences. I tried a few times to put this into a comprehensive guide but it's just frickin hard to get it right. Either it's too short or too long, too detailed or impossible to understand and it's doubly hard to put it in a general way. There's just so many things to consider. Anyway, an example:

Let's say you have a berserker. There are several ways to increase your damage. You can do it via strength, berserk directly, synergies, masteries, merc's might aura, just to name a few.

If you max berserk and howl, that'll give you about +800-900% damage if I remember well. Something like that. Costs? 40 skill points. Good? Sure, what else would you use them on. Let's say we used the rest of our points on battle orders and warcry. Now, technically we could increase our damage by pushing strength, but should we?

Let's say we put 100 points there. That's about 100% ED, kinda depending on your weapon, for simplicities sake, let's say it is 100%. So, what else could we get for those 100 points? 400 Life. Then there's battle orders, so 800 life. So, 1/10th more damage (going from 1000% to 1100%) or 800 life?

It's not hard to see that those last 100% are a lot more expensive than the first ones. Plus, they don't increase your damage by as much as the earlier ones. Relatively speaking, of course. The absolute amount remains the same.


Or let's say you make a conc barb. So you have two factors to consider for defence, your base defence and your %bonus from shout and conc itself and so forth. Maxing either one of those is not going to help you, you need both, a decent amount of base defence and a good number to multiply it with. The more %EDef you get, the harder it is to get more. What you get from conc itself comes "free" from maxing your attack skill, 20 points in shout are usually no problem to fit into the build either. But if you went and maxed iron skin you would be lacking in other areas.

Similar things for the base defence. If you select all of your gear to have the highest defence possible you will be lacking in other areas. But if you get just one big chunk of defence on your breastplate and pick the rest of your gear based on other things you will have a much more balanced character. You could probably squeeze another, say, 20% defence out of your char, if you focused just on that, but that would cripple you in other aspects.



 

luskan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

:congrats: Congratulations on the achievement! That's a lot of dedication there. :thumbup:

More importantly thank you for all of your insight and guides posted here. The SPF forum won't be the same without you. :thanks:

-luskan
 

muzzz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Just setting such a goal is worthy of respect. Achieving it is something I lack words for. And that's quite something, for me.

Many thanks for all the pearls of wisdom. I'm hoping you'll find some reason to keep playing bit longer. But if not, best of luck in your future endeavors (hint, hint: D3 :badteeth:)
 

nubikoen

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Congratulations on fishing.. erh, finishing that monstrous feat.

GG.

Edit.
Ok, I just re-read that.Turns out it was pretty damn far from being funny, I'll leave it be though.
 

Baltha

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

Well, this is pretty hard to sum up in a few sentences. I tried a few times to put this into a comprehensive guide but it's just frickin hard to get it right.
Yes, I know it was going to be difficult, but you did a good job. I get the point.

By the way, if you want to make a guide in the future, general numbers, "whys" and overall strategy will be a very interesting reading. More than just another cookie-cutter guide, I think.

Thanks for the response and congratulations again.


 

stephan

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Sept Sept Finished & Summary

You have a brilliant game philosophy.

Congratulations on the sept sept!
 
Top