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Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by razen, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. razen

    razen IncGamers Member

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    Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    This is direct quote from the faq:

    "Most of those warriors who directly faced Hell’s armies -- and were fortunate enough to survive -- went mad from their experiences. And most of the others have buried their haunted memories and pushed the horrors from their thoughts. In Diablo III, players will return to Sanctuary to confront evil in its many forms once again."

    And don't try to convince me on how soulless or insensitive I am, but...

    How the heck is hacking down monsters after monsters suppose to make you mad? You don't see most real world veterans running and screaming on the streets, and they shoot at PEOPLE.

    It seems like this kind of simple dismissal plot device is just... I don't know... getting on my nerves. Seems like most story when they have to start a new, just conveniently have everyone from the previous storyline "gone mad."

    Clean, severed, no responsibilities from the past.

    Well, if I had a choice and I just save humanity from the forces of hell? I would so gloat about it. Gone mad? Are you serious? I will be telling everyone of the time I hacked down Baal at Arreat or the time that I shattered Mephisto's soul at the hell forge. I will talk so much until they decide to give me lordship somewhere just on account of my annoyance.

    (Oh wait, maybe that's why they are considered mad...)

    But seriously... really?

    I can only think of the following things that might POSSIBLY scare you:

    1) ambushing monsters (sort of like sudden pop-ups in scary movies)
    But that's why we have +5 light radius...

    2) souls and forces beyond control (sort of like Fifth Sense maybe?)
    Well... if it's beyond my control... wouldn't I just not worry about it? Just saying...

    3) things trying to kill you
    Well... as the premise implied... you LIVED... so obviously you killed them all...

    4) "beings" being tortured
    Oh come on... it's not like the butcher shop is having a 2 for 1 sales Sunday. Trust me... there aren't that much "people" or "angels" chained up and having their guts dragged around.

    So what can possibly scare you to the point of mental meltdown? Shapeless things don't scare you, blood and gore don't scare you, and certainly... threats don't scare you.

    The only thing I can think of... is the possibility that the heroes say hopelessness in humanity upon entering the hell gate. But come on... you WON. If knowing that you defeated EVERYONE, what... is a rogue skeleton going to kill you? (Ever saw the new Beowulf? Sort of like how the dude is just not afraid of ANYTHING at the end.)

    Then again, we do live in an era of internet and 24 hours live televisions, so things just... make sense now; whether they are ghosts, boogiemen, or sea serpents. In any case, I still say those people of the Sanctuary are weak sauce.

    (P.S. Please don't tell me they are afraid of death. If you been to hell and know that the worst thing that can happen is becoming a skeleton upon death... how can you possibly be afraid if you know the worst already? It's like in real life where people are afraid of ghosts. I always question... why? The worst case senario is you become one of them... woopie-doo.)
     
  2. Bandreus

    Bandreus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Actually that happens a lot. Well, maybe not every veteran is doomed to go out in the streets and shoot on people, but they do suffer eavy consequences.

    Making horrible nightmers for all of their lives. Depression. Addiction to drugs. Just to name a few bad things veterans suffer because of their extreme experiences.

    That doesn't even involve going to hell and back. Well, Vietnam did was told to just being worst than hell, by many among those who managed to come back home.

    Of course from a player's stand point, slying demon legions is just cool and fun. But from the lore side, it perfectly makes sense for most of the people who faced those horrors either going mad or simply try and forgetting about those things.

    Bottom line, if not because of facing horrible monsters, for someone having to make his way through slaughtered and impaled people everywhere for all the dey long, seven days a week, is seryously going to hurt your psyche at least a tad. And if it doesn't, well, that simply means he's quite ****ed up allready. Maybe you don't get this point, but the fact it doesn't scare you by viewing it on the monitor, while comfortably seating on a cushioned chair, just does not mean everyone in Sanctuary is going to make a laught about the average ten million tons of dead meat the average D2 hero is going to see through his adventure.

    Just my take


     
  3. Noammr

    Noammr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    I'd rather accuse in lack of imagination. You're so used to seeing monsters and wars on the TV/computer that you don't understand how terrifying a battlefield can actually be. Most modern war veterans are left with a terribly scarred psyche, I'd imagine that fighting a horde of unworldly monsters, seeing friends being slaughtered gruesomely and so on could easily cause the same. It makes sense if you imagine that the people of sanctuary as people and not computer character.

    I am assuming here that you haven't been in any life-threatening situations, correct me if I'm wrong.


     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2009
  4. razen

    razen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Well, we are also assuming theses are extraordinary heroes, not just normal "John Smith" individuals. So my argument still stands, if I am a kick butt hero, I would not be traumatized.

    I guess it's not the part where people might be crazy that bothers me, but the fact that MOST gone crazy and the rest gone secluded that bothers me. Again, it seems like such a convenient plot device and used too frequently now a days to show a complete sever from the past. (and too easy to have a "wow, I discover this man with secrets... blah blah blah moment later on)

    Let's just say 10000 heroes gone into the quest to hunt Diablo. Let's say just 7 made it all the way through till the end on Arreat. (to represent 1 of each class) Now, we can't assume the other 9993 heroes all died, maybe some just didn't make it in time to join the final battle. So realitically, let's put the casualty rate at 40-50%... which is already significant, and we have to consider those are 9993 extraordinary individuals as well, not some local chums. Now most... I am assuming that of the remaining 4000~5000 heroes, gone mad? To me, most means 90%+... which would leave about 400~500 individuals entirely normal but decide to go into seclusion.

    Now... of the original 7... which obviously either by luck or by sheer strength, stomached through everything... I just have a hard time believing none of them will make a return to the world of Sanctuary either as rulers of some sort or positive legends of folklores as a result of PTSD.

    Heck, someone has to tell the world that the world is safe right? So at least the messanger must be normal.

    Or maybe I am just reading too much into it... but I guess I am just more of a type of guy where the past taking on a bit more weight than "let's start over clean slate... most people gone mad, no recognition from the past."

    At least they could have done, is make the timeline drag out to more than 20 years. Honestly, if this world is attacked repeated by demon (3 incursions within what... 30 years?) then I think something is very wrong with this world. Again, it's not like it's 2 for 1 Sunday at the Apocalypse Shop, where people buy one get one free.

    Then if you want to say that the world started a new after 200 years... I don't know... that to me sounds at least more natural as a transition to a clean start than "everyone gone mad" type of deal.
     
  5. newbiee

    newbiee IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Your quote from the lore simply says 'warriors' and that is not necessarily synonymous with hero. I doubt the common foot soldier would be able to resist demonic taint and unspeakable horrors as easily as the player characters.

    I agree, heroes of legend that are able to defeat ancient evil and physically survive should have the mental fortitude to lead (somewhat) normal lives. Our heroes might have a serious nightmares at first, but the severity would probably wane with time, and they would get on with their lives.

    Take a look at the barbarian. He made it back for another round of fighting hordes of undead and demons. He's not banging his head against padded cell walls or drooling on himself. The barbarian also isn't bragging to everyone about defeating the prime evils because the mountain he was protecting is a crater. Personally, I wouldn't be bragging about my exploits with everyone, but I wouldn't be afraid to recount my greatest triumphs (humble heroes exist right?).
     
  6. Detheroc

    Detheroc IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Well, if you've ever watched the Rambo movies, you'd recall from the first movie that he was a seriously traumatized individual, yet he was not what you might call a "normal John Smith" person, now was he?

    Even "one-man armies" in fiction tend to break down psychologically and if they can end up that way, they surely could go mad too. Physical toughness also does not equal mental toughness. Truth be told, I've seen many so-called "tough guys" with big muscles and **** begin to whine like babies if they didn't get what they wanted. Weak.

    What do you even know about trauma Razen? Judging by your posts, not a damned thing it seems. The world has many battle-hardened, battle-capable toughies, yet they too are capable of breaking down eventually. See the trauma doesn't decline over the years, but rather tends to get worse with time, unless you're able to get appropriate help in dealing with it.

    And tough-guys rarely ever ask for help, because "only weaklings ask for help" boo hoo. Recipe for madness right there.

    The plot device of the previous heroes having gone mad is the only logical plot device you could come up with - these heroes didn't go for a freakin' walk in the park. They went to the most evil place in the damned universe and fought ancient and powerful evils who had already corrupted powerful heroes before them.
    I know I'd raise an eyebrow or two if Diablo 3 actually went and said: "...and the heroes who defeated Diablo and Baal lived happily ever after, sharing their tales far and wide". Because that'd seriously downplay the threat that Hell represents - it's not a place intended for living mortals in the first place.
     
  7. razen

    razen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    I actually like that. What's wrong with that transition?

    Warcraft would have done it...


     
  8. Knight_Wolf

    Knight_Wolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Actually the only Warcraft hero that had a decent and rather pleasant fate would be Thrall, the rest all got the short end of the stick ... they either went evil, died and turned into undead, got betrayed, exiled .. etc etc, so Warcraft wasn't really easy-going at all with most of its heroes .. neither should Diablo.

    I also do see a lot of parallels between Thrall and the Diablo Barb

    ------------------------------------------

    Actually like people here said, many (not all) soldiers and war-heroes go mad or have a scarred psyche from the psychological pressure of normal warfare and what they see there (human cruelty, massacres, .. etc etc), multiply that by 20 or more when considering they are actually fighting demons and unearthly infernal creatures .... any human no matter hero or not won't go through such experiences unscarred ... unless they were a cardboard 2D super hero type .. which is pretty lame and boring.


    As for the Barbarian living through it, he is an exception and is pretty much justified ... he is already mad to begin with ... ahm .. just kidding ... actually his very harsh life style and the mentality of Barbarians ward him from being physically scarred ... i mean going berserk is all about mindlessly and ferociously attacking your enemies regardless of their size, type or strength difference kinda like going into a trance.

    So i doubt the Barbarian even remembers half the battles he went through since he is going berserk and frenzy during most of his battles ... he sees demons .. screams a war cry .. pulls his axes .. rushes them and goes into a BERSERK state .... few minutes later comes to his senses to see the pool of blood his enemies have become .. that's probably what happens. :scratchchin:


     
  9. Urkbrug

    Urkbrug IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    this thread can't be for real.
    right?
     
  10. Technomancer

    Technomancer IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    One thing that has to be taken into account as well, is that there's more going on than you can readily see. To us it's just pixels and it may seem like no big deal, but going into the fictional world, what's going on is actually pretty effed up!! You're fighting evil that threatens to consume your very soul! At any moment you could die a horrible HORRIBLE death. Or worse. Yes, there could be a lot worse. Imagine that non-stop over a very prolonged period of time. Add onto that psychic attacks wearing you down constantly. Big D is the Lord of Terror! The whole time you're invading the Chaos Sanctuary, do you think he's not trying to get inside your mind at every turn, whispering nightmarish scenes into your brain, thoughts no mortal was ever meant to have, filling you with despair and doubt? This is your life! There's no resets, no starting over in town, no rolling a new character, nothing. That would be totally scary as ****!!!

    For the Paladin in particular, the journey could have been especially traumatizing, considering in A3, he had to slaughter those of his own faith: otherwise innocent people corrupted and possessed by Mephisto. On top of that, while you are able to maintain control, The Compelling Orb that mislead so many of your brethren is no doubt trying to beat it's way inside your skull to corrupt you as well, with your mortal soul at stake! This could go for all the characters.

    Doing Meph and Baal runs for years on end could easily desensitize the player, but not the actual character.
     
  11. Bandreus

    Bandreus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    At some point you have to face the truth


     
  12. GoldenBird

    GoldenBird IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Uhm, there's a reason why most policemen/paramedics/ect. only serve for a few years. You can ask many of them, many say that they couldn't handle it. And that's only police/hospital work. Now imagine fighting on a battlefield (or in this case, hell).

    No, the worst-case scenario is that they capture you and torture, or you have constant nightmares and are paranoid, or you become paralyzed, ect.

    God, no wonder we have all these serial killers and rapists and such, it's people that think it won't hurt anybody.


     
  13. razen

    razen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Wow... absolutely amazing...

    When did this forum become all sensitive? Did I miss the free tampon give away? Lighten up, people. (As soon as I typed that, I realized that was an offensive statement. Women have more balls than some of the insanely sensitive individuals here. So I apologize to the female portion of this forum, and I better stop myself before I offend anymore groups that might also be known for being sensitive.)

    (Wow, I just pulled a Phil Jackson!)

    And GoldenBird... I really like how you draw a parallel between rapists and storyline discussion. You the man! Oh my god, are you the kid that always gets a straight A in BS? Just asking cause I think I know you!

    Any seriously... I can try to scare myself too by throwing out words like "terror," "destruction," "agony," etc etc. But do you seriously not see the none-specificity in those words? Blizzard uses them for mood creation. It's also very convenient to have "everyone scarred." Why? Cause it sets the mood. All I am saying is what specifics can possibly scare you? Again... I outlined everything. People have the ability to desensitive, and we are also assuming that these evil forces battle you everyday. However, you are blessed by the light and holds magical relics of extreme power. (see v1.09 burizons) And just from hindsight, you OVERCAME the demonic influence. How do I know that? Cause you win the game, fool! (Okay, unless you never got past the Hell difficulty, then I apologize.)

    Now, I totally understand the need for "people to go crazy." Again, because it sets the mood. All I am saying is, it's a little too overdone... to a point where it's downright comical. I know I am probably get blasted with this, but I am going to start a line of Diablo combine with depression jokes! (heh... can't get worse than now right?)

    Yo moma is so depressed, she just came back from the Sanctuary.
    Yo moma is so sad, not because her son is in Iraq, but she just saved Decard Cain.
    Yo moma is so depressed, she's a character in the Diablo game.
    Yo moma is so crazy, she just beat Baal in Mount Arreat.
    Yo moma is so depressed, her son is defending Pixel chars in a forum. (This one for you, GoldenBird, shout out!)
    Yo moma is so depressed, she lives in Tristram.
    Yo moma is so depressed, she writes for Blizzard.
    Yo moma is so depressed, she's the fifth minor demon "The Lord of Depression."

    (I got tons more baby... WOOT!)
     
  14. SoulSpectrum

    SoulSpectrum IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    lol... however, you are wrong sir....
    "The Heroes of Sanctuary want a hug... what else? (maybe a twinky.... good energy)"-Psalm 69
    Seee even HeyZeus said that in the BIBall!
    (Sorry no offense..... huh?)


     
  15. GoldenBird

    GoldenBird IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    :rolleyes: Back to square 1.

    If you really think fighting can't hurt people, take a look at this article: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontohumanesociety/article/732023

    People have had nightmares from working at a freakin animal shelter... if THAT bothers people, can't you imagine what war can do? Not to mention fighting in hell?

    So really, I don't see how it is "overdone", it's pretty realistic to me.


     
  16. Technomancer

    Technomancer IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    I guess I can see where it's been used a bit much, but to say it's completely invalid is just a complete lack of imagination or realistic perspective. A friend of a friend thought he was a tough guy when he went over to Iraq and thought it was gonna be like a f'n video game or something, but it wasn't. Not even close. Every time he saw action, he'd call up my friend crying and freaking out. Kill or be killed is NOT a game. I basically agree that story mechanic has been overdone, but if it actually fits anywhere, it's in Diablo.
     
  17. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Hmmm... well, I was a soldier, back here in Israel... I saw people die, Iv'e been fired upon... I can tell you one thing for sure- it leaves deep marks on you. You obviously do not know what it is like to be in suspense knowing there's a good chance that you will die.

    Razen, you have a very limited perception- if you walked out your room and saw a mass of rotten flesh with gaping maws... you wouldn't be even slightly bothered? I'd love to see that.
    How about seeing your friends die because of such creatures? still nothing?

    It seems to make sense to me.

    And lastly, the fact that a lot of people disagree with you does not make them "girlie" or "ridiculous"- your reply reflects very poorly on you.
     
  18. razen

    razen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    I know... I am near-sighted, so my perspective is only limited to 2 meters in front of me.

    Just like to correct your statement: the fact that a lot of people
    should be: the fact that ALL of people

    :thumbup:

    Okay, I realized that I had been hypocritical in blasting Blizzard without offering much of an alternative, like a politician! So here is my alternate draft... call it...

    Razen's Guide to a Better Diablo3 Premise
    by: The most creative macho awesome imaginative person EVER

    Star <insert name> has once rounded the starry sky, marking the 200th years since the shattering of the World Stone. In the great city <insert name>, tales of ancient terror has long faded to children's bedtime story. <insert name>, the son of <insert name> of the <insert name> legendary family that was said to have brought down Diablo, <insert event>

    Decard Cain, the old geezer that was blessed with Angelic Light thus granting unusual long life, awoke in a bed of sweat. <insert blah blah blah>

    Deep inside the tomb of <insert name>, a Naisa girl REVERSE was the first witness when the fireball struck the ground. "It isn't safe here." she said. <insert some scary passage>

    <insert other BS scary passage>

    The Lord of Terror has rised again!

    <insert scary BGM>

    ------------------------------------

    THAT crap I came up with in 5 min vs

    "Most that had survived Diablo 20 years ago had gone insane."

    DON DON DON!!!

    PS This is a RPG... ROLE PLAY... I don't very much like my ROLE PLAY character after earning the rank of Grandmaster at level 92 and can solo Hell with ease became so much of a wimp that he/she won't leave a mark in the Diablo history. So you have to excuse me when I don't very much feel like being in a Brokeback movie.

    I mean, the only way Blizzard could have made your time spent playing Diablo TWO even more irrelevant is by saying that was all a dream, but I guess you guys are perfectly okay with that too.

    Diablo, where things you do in the previous game of the franchise is totally irrelevant and still can have a throng of fans defending such decision, happens.


     
  19. cralz

    cralz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Coming soon to a theatre near you.


     
  20. GoldenBird

    GoldenBird IncGamers Member

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    Re: Seems like people of the sanctuary have weak psyche?

    Uh... what?

    I honestly don't understand what you're trying to get at, but anyways...

    I don't see how the fact that everyone went crazy makes the other games irrelevant. Care to elaborate please?

    And if you really think fighting in a war can't scar you then why don't you just go join the military and see for yourself?


     

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