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Seeking Opinions of Necro Masters

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by MassiveErekchun, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. MassiveErekchun

    MassiveErekchun Diabloii.Net Member

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    Seeking Opinions of Necro Masters

    I am no stranger to necromancy and am well versed in the subtle nuances of the dark arts. Always in pursuit of greater power and the absolute domination of any hellish host I might encounter, I sought counsel from the corpses of my freshly slain adversaries that I deemed worthy of a moment of my time. Their spirits whispered to me in voices, which almost inaudible, tickled my inner ear with profound words of wisdom. They told me that the final key to unleashing my ultimate potential lay within the metallic husk of the iron golems I could so readily create.
    This was a most unexpected revelation. How? How could the source of my final ascension result from losing my trusted automaton, the durable and utilitarian clay golem? What benefit could be greater than a behemoth that could almost single-handedly bear the brunt of hell's fury? For when he was under the enchantment cast by my mystical flail, his life force was immeasurable and could not be ripped from him by any force save mine. He also entangled my foes in the roots, stones, indeed the very soil just by being in close proximity to them, drastically slowing any effort to reach me.
    I returned to my dank, musty abode to glean any further knowledge concerning golems and their uses. For until now, iron golems only served to amuse me when battling a hapless sorceress unleashing the elements of the sky. As white lightning leaped from their fingertips towards the hollow eyes of my bone minions, I would summon the metallic brute directly in front of them. He would lumber directly to the caster and grab them by the arms. The look on the suddenly electrified sorceress would be priceless as they came to the quick realization that iron is an excellent conductor. Shortly before the life fizzled from their eyes they realized that they were not quite so good at that same task.
    With a chuckle, I returned to the immediate issue and suddenly remembered the scrolls of the ancients which went into great detail the intricacies of crafting two mighty weapons of iron with the use of powerful runic symbols that they left behind. These runes were very rare and were hard to come by, however as a mighty and wise necromancer, some were in my possession. One weapon could invigorate its benificiaries with an unmistakable and unstoppable purpose, strengthening their arms and purifying their train of thoughts to make their blows uninterruptible and crippling. The other had the power to suck the ambient warmth out of the environment, even from within opponent's bodies, until nothing could move at more than a crawl.
    I realized at that moment that the lifeless warriors did not lie to me and that the iron golem truly could be my final step to true godhood. But which path to take? This decision rested heavily on me. I could clearly see that the iron golem's innate invincibility to poison and lightning would serve me well as I hunted for the legendary keys that would unlock the gateways to the deepest nether realm of all. For what hope would Lilith have in besting my iron golem when her most deadly attack has been neutralized and her physical blows only served to return the pain to herself? What hope would the demonic pure essence of Mephisto have when he charged the very atmosphere around him in ions and unleashed a devastating thunderclap....only to find the iron golem unfazed and unmoving?
    The vessel has been deemed worthy of creating, but what powers to bestow upon it... that was the true question. Do I grant the golem the ability to turn my skeletal army into a legion of undead supermen? Or perhaps the freezing and incapacitation of my foes would serve me better.
    And so now I ask you, my fellow followers of death, how would you proceed in my situation? Be hasty with your answers and to the point for my patience nears its end. Bear in mind that if your answer displeases me you might find yourself in the midst of my next corpse explosion. Or I might handle things more personally and feast on your entrails with the help of my enchanted berserker axe..as a humungous grizzly bear!


    Hope you enjoyed the illustrious tale I wove for you. Here is the meat and potatoes of the situation. I am aiming to create a super-summoner and have a might merc with infinity and bramble, hold a beast zerk myself so I can also gain bonuses from a shield, and a iron golem with concentration or holy freeze. Which would be better in your opinion? The combo of might/fanat/concentration/thorns/conviction seems pretty tempting to me, but nobody can deny the benefits holy freeze brings either. Do you think the number of corpses shattering to holy freeze will be high if it is a golem casting the aura and not a merc, since I doubt the golem will actually perform the final hit on many enemies? I tele everywhere so I won't ever run far from my golem and make him disappear and I am pure vita/ planning for max resists so I shouldn't die either. This character is strictly for pvm, including uber hunting. Thank you in advance.

    -MassiveErekchun
     
  2. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    The IG should shatter about the same number of enemies as a Merc. Going with a HF IG means you'll take less advantage of Thorns and you'll loose conviction. Overall the damage will suffer a lot and your defensive capabilities won't really be that much greater. I wouldn't go with HF.
     
  3. MassiveErekchun

    MassiveErekchun Diabloii.Net Member

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    Ok thank you for the advice, I had a gut feeling about concentration being better than holy freeze for this type of necro, but it is great to receive confirmation from a pro. On a side note, do you know if an iron golem will retain his natural immunity to lightning around Uber Mephisto's conviction aura? I think that he would with a decent amount of plus skills to summon resist, in spite of diminishing returns, but I am just guessing on that as I don't have any actual statistics or anything (aside from Mephisto taking -125 to res all... or is it -150) :duh:
     
  4. despot

    despot Diabloii.Net Member

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    nice tale, that's why I love necros...
    I tried Infinity in my necro and found out that pride or even insight would be better, you have any particular reason for wanting it?
    about the iron golem, yeah, he can be great, but isn't the item that has holy freeze expensive? I woudn't want it to die...
    I guess the cheapest one is insight, which helps with corspe explosion really.
     
  5. bladesyz

    bladesyz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Nice tale!

    This is a pretty interesting idea, and opens up a lot of possibilities I hadn't thought about! Though expensive, the right combination of Iron Golem/Merc/Polearm can become extraordinarily powerful!

    Some thoughts:

    - A Might merc won't be very useful when you've got a high level concentration on. It'll only add 100% ed to the 500% (?) ed of concentration.

    - If you really wanted HF, it would be better to simply replace the might merc with a HF merc. Your skellies damage won't suffer much.

    - I'm not sure how powerful Meph's conviction aura is, but I do know that any -res effect works at only 1/5 when facing immunity. That is, if a conviction gave -100 res, it will only be -20 if a creature's res is over 120. Summon resist can give about +50 res (?), so Meph's aura needs to be -250 to break the immunity, which I doubt. However, you'll still have to watch out for overwhelming physical attacks, and strong fire/cold attacks.

    - Wouldn't it be better to make the IG from a Beast, and give the Merc the concentration polearm? I don't really see why a necro needs conviction. Against non-PI, Amp and skellies would make short work of them. Against PIs, a lower resist would work just as well.

    - If you're going to use it for uber-hunting, then maybe you should consider a Lawbringer IG. The Sanctuary aura would keep the minions away, though I'm not sure if it'll have an effect on your own undead...
     
  6. usbserial

    usbserial Diabloii.Net Member

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    A lvl 90 merc would have a lvl 28 might aura, which adds 310% damage. That's not to be shrugged off.

    But returned damage will suffer greatly. It makes a huge difference for ubers and bosses, and a noticable difference for other mobs.





    I'd recommend this setup:

    Beast - you
    Insight - iron golem
    Pride - merc
    Bramble - merc
    off nm a2 merc (might)

    fana + might + conc + med + thorns

    ~+688% damage
    ~+480% returned
    ~+725% mana regen

    Make IG out of Insight... theres no reason to risk Pride's Sur-Cham-Lo on an IG when you could just as easily have the merc hold Pride.
     
  7. bladesyz

    bladesyz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Hmm... I hadn't realized the might merc's aura could become so powerful.


    With this setup, the IG only gives you the med aura, which kind of defeats the purpose of a powerful aura IG. You could easily go without Insight by quaffing some blues on your tele trips.
     
  8. usbserial

    usbserial Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yes, you could... but unless you are so ungodly rich that you can spare 2+ HR each time you (or the IG) die, its the only one that makes sense.
     
  9. bladesyz

    bladesyz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Well, judging from the original poster, he isn't planning to have the IG die. Sure, it's difficult, but an experienced player can pull it off.

    Plus, sadly as it is, HRs aren't worth much these days on ladder. I've once traded 2x angelic rings + amulet for a hr. I've also traded a full sig set for a HR.
     
  10. MassiveErekchun

    MassiveErekchun Diabloii.Net Member

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    Thanks for all the input guys!
    Despot: I like Infinity on necros because I do like to max mages, I do plan on making this necro an uber-trist killer and the conviction helps the skellies and revives hit the uber trio (I know that skelly AR is higher than originally thought, but the ubers have a clvl of 110 or something which is quite the handicap when using the chance to hit formula), and I do use CE fairly liberally so I do like the benefit of added elemental damage on top of having the added physical damage of amp on. I guess I prefer Infinity because it assists in inflicting maximum pain on enemies whereas Insight is more of a utility tool. Also the 40% crushing blow on it simply cannot be ignored.

    Bladesyz: I have been convinced by Mantis' argument that holy freeze is not nearly as beneficial as concentration would be for this build, as it will shatter corpses that could be used for CE and slow the rate my minions will be hit and allow their thorns aura to truly shine. I prefer to have the concentration aura, but I simply cannot let my merc wield the weapon because 40% crushing blow just isnt easy to replace on a character that can only wear 3 pieces of equipment (and Thorns is locked in for his armor and the helm will either be a eth upped gaze or a eth andy's socketed with a 15ias/fire res jewel to accomodate his leeching needs). Thank you for reminding me that -res is applied at 1/5 when the creature is immune, I am sure the IG will be fine then as a 1 pt investment with lots of plus skills will net over 60 res all and maybe even 70 res all if I remember right.
    Usbserial: Are you sure a lvl 90 might merc has a 28 aura, that seems higher than I remember. IIRC mercs top out around lvl 20 unless they are equipped with plus skill items (which andy's visage would add plus 2 for), and that aura is considering a lvl 98 merc. As far as investing hrs in creating an iron golem, I seriously doubt I will die in pvm, even in lag situations because this is going to be a pretty serious impediment to any creature trying to approach me plus I am pure vita/ planning for max res and I dont ever really need to pot now, much less with better charms/golems/skellies/auras. Also bladesyz is right about hrs not being what they used to be, value-wise on ladder. It is a significant investment but I won't quite be breaking the piggy bank to create a Pride golem.
    Thank you guys for your comments and insights, you helped solidify the ideas floating through my head and now I have a solid direction to focus on. I will update you guys on MassiveBoner's progress and if you create a necro with the same setup I would love to hear from you as well.

    -MassiveErekchun
     
  11. usbserial

    usbserial Diabloii.Net Member

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    I got my facts on mercs from here: http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=580

    This is what it says:

    Of course, its possible that it is in err, but I don't know a better source, so I'll accept it for now.
     
  12. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    A better source would be this guide and this Excel file. It is a bit old, but the stats on the Mercs are still accurate.
     
  13. usbserial

    usbserial Diabloii.Net Member

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    You do realize that "this guide" is the same as the link I said was my source, right?
     
  14. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Actually, I totally forgot to click on the link. :badteeth: I glanced over the url and thought it was the same as the Merc guide on this site. But the formula does not give the correct answer AFAIK. The Excel sheet does.
     
  15. MassiveErekchun

    MassiveErekchun Diabloii.Net Member

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    Wow! That is an extremely comprehensive statistic set on mercs. I don't even want to think about how long it took to compile and document all that info on Excel, but I am glad someone did it. Let's just say I think it's going to be a long time before my might merc has a lvl 20 aura. :jig:

    -MassiveErekchun
     
  16. shijo

    shijo Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm still convinced the most efficient way to kill with a summon necro is the following setup on the merc:

    Guillame's Face
    eth Infinity polearm
    (bramble, eth fort - it doesn't really matter).

    I remember reading about a year or so ago, someone had done a comparison between pride and infinity in terms of damage. I don't know where the thread is anymore, but I do remember that infinity actually beat out the pride in terms of actual damage. The reason, if you think about it, really is pretty simple.

    Infinity destroys resists and defense(which allows you to do more damage than you can really see immediately), whereas the Pride just increases the damage your minions do(which could actually get reduced due to the enemie's defenses, etc).

    But let me talk playing technique for a minute. I use amp damage. Why amp over decrep/etc? Let me assume that you're playing a pure physical summoner here (20RS, 20SM, 1Clay Golem, 1Summon Resist, 1 Revive, 20 CE, 20 - wherever else, not going to list gear set up here unless someone asks for it). Well amp damage is hands down the best bang for your buck in terms of physical damage auras. It essentially doubles the damage your minions do(100%). But wait - there's more: corpse explosion mows down entire screens of mobs when used in combination with amp damage and if it's not being used as a summon necromancer, you're missing the boat in a big way. It is our most powerful spell and it should be utilized to the fullest extent(this means pumping it up - radius = GOOD).

    With that said, CE obviously isn't viable against bosses that have no minions (Baal, Diablo, the Ubers), and even the ones that do, it's still not very viable.
    So the trick here? Crushing blow and conviction. With the set up I listed at the top, your merc should have 75% crushing blow. He'll be shaving off TONS of life with every hit. Your skeletons will be doing a fair amount too. I like to use decrepify to slow them down and then when they get low, switch to amp for a finishing blow.

    I've found that life leech on the merc isn't that important compared to crushing blow with this set-up because things die so quickly. Keep some spare full rejuvs handy for him and you're good to go.

    Revives rock and are great to add an extra 15-20 minions to your army, but I don't rely on them like I do the skeletons/merc.

    I think the only encounter I haven't been able to solo with this set-up is the Uber tristram encounter. Stuff dies way too fast for me to keep up.
     
  17. MassiveErekchun

    MassiveErekchun Diabloii.Net Member

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    To be honest, I think a necro summoner's summons are all overkill. I have frequently killed Baal and minions in multiplayer games with no help whatsoever with just my merc, golem, and me casting CE. If merc has crushing blow, golem has slow (either clay or iron golem made from kelpie snare or similar item), and you can cast decrep, baal can barely move and my merc can take him down in around a minute with no skellies or revives at all. What I typically do is cast decrep on Baal, wait for Golem's slow to take effect on Baal, then amp him and beat him like there's no tomorrow. That is what makes Infinity so much better to me as a merc weapon then Pride. Massive crushing blow, a aura that lowers enemy defense enough for my Beastz-wielding necro to actually hit enemies fairly consistently even with no AR boosts, and an aura that lowers their resistance for that big Hellfire blaze that shoots out every few hits I score. Infinity adds sick damage just to that firestorm attack alone. IMNSHO (In my not so humble opinion :flip:) Infinity flat out whoops Pride on a merc for this build. However I dont feel like I should have to choose between them, thats why I wanted Iron Golem Pride so I could enjoy ALL the auras.

    -MassiveErekchun
     
  18. thulsa

    thulsa Diabloii.Net Member

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    Forgive me for asking this redundant question, but if you did or do conjure an Iron Golem from Insight, Pride, IK maul, etc, does the IG stay till it dies, even if you exit the game to join or make another?

    I am new to necro's, having taken two years off, and cannot recall nor find a thread that answered/answers that which I have asked. Thank you, and again, sorry for the simple 'noob' type question.
     
  19. leddan

    leddan Diabloii.Net Member

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    The Iron Golem does stay if you are a Necro & make the IG using the skill itself. It will only be gone when it dies. Don't believe it remains using it off a charge like on the Metalgrid amulet. Not 100% sure about it though.
     
  20. thulsa

    thulsa Diabloii.Net Member

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    Sorry for the long non-reply leddan, but I was busy reading a bunch of back Necro threads.

    Thank you for the reply and understood. :thumbsup:
     

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