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Seeking consensus on standard response to cheat questions

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by wildjinn, Apr 1, 2004.

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Which has the most inherent value?

  1. Humans have the most value, amongst the hierarchy of creatures.

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  2. All creatures have identical value, placing humans at par with amoebas.

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  3. Nothing has inherent value, we create value and assign it ourselves.

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  1. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    Seeking consensus on standard response to cheat questions

    Okay. The doc asked for someone to draft a standard response to the questions that ask for items or hacks or cheats or anything that the SPF doesn't support. I wrote this up in response, and it seems to have garnered some considerable support in the two threads in which it's been seen.

    I'm wondering if we can reach some consensus on how/if this is an appropriate response to requests for cheats/hacks/itempacks and what changes need to be made. Please vote in the poll about the following statement and leave any comments or suggestions in this thread.

    edit: I added a link to Cauthon's GAT FAQ which should definitely be included in this response. I apologize for not thinking of it earlier.
     
  2. schillerdc78

    schillerdc78 IncGamers Member

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    i think the response is just fine. none of the established posters will ask for cheats and the endless discussions every single day must be p****** of everyone by now. perhaps my language is a bit harsh but i like the way this forum goes about stuff like this and a response like this makes it pretty much clear to people who don't think like the mayority of us.

    just my two cents

    schiller
     
  3. WhiskeyJack

    WhiskeyJack IncGamers Member

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    I like the response. :thumbsup:

    Better than getting riled up and cursing, which occasionally happens!
     
  4. Greyhound

    Greyhound IncGamers Member

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    *Sees response is 10 out of 10 so far*

    A perfect consensus on a forum?......


    *Passes out*

    :cheesy:

    *Brain Explodes*

    :surprise:
     
  5. Stack

    Stack IncGamers Member

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    I voted for it. I get so damned tired of reading the same ole, same ole, cheat/hack/dupe/whatever threads. :rant: Maybe this will cut back on a few of them?! Doubt it though :grrr:
     
  6. whomhead

    whomhead IncGamers Member

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    looks good to me... you forgot the blame durf option though... and i want beer as well! :D
     
  7. TekkaZeroX

    TekkaZeroX IncGamers Member

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    As I have said in other threads, this is a good idea. :)

    The only change I would make to the standard response is add the lime color to it. Then it will stand out to all posters in the thread. :)
     
  8. Bongo Fury

    Bongo Fury IncGamers Member

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    I read this, and I thought, I never met a Cauthon in GAT (Green Arse Team). And they certainly didn't write the GAT FAQ, because I was involved in that. I can't be that senile. Then I realized it wasn't the HC B-net community that you were talking about. LOL
     
  9. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo IncGamers Member

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    No such thing as a unanimous vote in a forum :lol:

    Thank you wildjinn for taking initiative on this, and good work on your draft. I voted to use a version of this standard response, but also have some concerns about it's actual usage.

    One of the longstanding hallmarks of the SPF is that we are helpful. We have giveaways, trade responsibly, and always are ready to help others out. This should also apply to newcomers who have a question about hacks, dupes, mods or run-time options. We should offer whatever help we can, within the limits of the site rules and the SPF guidelines.

    That said, the standard response as written really doesn't work for me. While it will help them understand the forum guidelines, it won't give them any sort of real answer to their question. I think it's the third and fourth sentences that don't seem right. Let's see...how about:

    "Since we have an active trading community, competitive ladders, and tournaments, our policy is that of limited discussion of item packs, cheats, and hacks.

    We recognize that what you do on your own computer is your business. We acknowledge that item packs, cheats, and hacks exist, but will not link you to them or provide technical support. Your best bet for these types of questions is to do a Google search."

    And in the link to our FAQ, I'd replace "Cauthon's" with "the SPF". Cauthon wrote the document, but is was certainly a collaboration.

    ---------------
    I also have some concern about how this response would be used. It seems fine if someone is asking about the item pack, duped items, or a clear cheat (e.g. pindle bot). But it isn't the correct response to a question on the -act or -seed command, or to a question on a game mod.

    We need to be careful about labeling all game variations as cheats.
     
  10. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    I agree with your limitations on its use, and I would hope that it would only be used when someone asks about something like a bot, character editor, blank 99's, or item editor.

    It is extremely important that this be only used in the exactly proper circumstance. This should not be used when discussion the -act5 command or the -seed command, and that needs to be conveyed to whomever is responsible for posting this item. Perhaps we could add this with the exact circumstances in which it should be used as an appendix to the GAT FAQ? Then we can have a set expectation for when this is used and some written policy to fall back on if it is used improperly.

    As far as I can think, the circumstances that need to be addressed are the following:
    * This should not be used when asked a question about a mod
    * This should not be used when asked a question about -act5 or -seed
    * This should be used when asked about item/character packs, bots, item/character editors, or hacks.

    Also, I think that a strong stand on information about hacks and cheats needs to be made. At the top of the boards, it has said "Please do not post links or information about hacking/warez/cheats," since I've been here. I think that suggesting that we allow limited discussion of these things is counterproductive, but I'm willing to be convinced and recognize that it's not up to me in the long run.

    Here is a reworking of the statement. I've changed the wording on the "no tolerance" part to something between our options. I think that "discourages" retains a strong tone while avoiding absolutism. I've also added some friendliness.

     
  11. Pucho

    Pucho Banned

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    I've voted to use it as a standard response but, as always, AE is right.
    After reading a lot of posts asking for cheats/hacks/item packs/(insert one here) I think that the first thing should say here is that here we dont "play online and use single player to test builds", we play it as the game should be played. Once I've read a post in wich someone asked how to lvl a merc without playing or something like that, and the person who posted it post here because he was adviced to do so, in another forum, I really dont think that every one who come here looking for item packs or things like that is a cheater, it's because they dont understand how "we" play here. If we teach people somehow that we play SP just like they play online (I'm asuming that everybody who plays online plays legit)
    we gain nothing accusing people if they dont understand why we accuse them

    is really hard for me to say what I think, I hope you get my point. :)
    sorry for the spelling/grammar, I'm still learning english
     
  12. Dacar92

    Dacar92 Community, Amazon, DH Moderator & Inc Clan Officer

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    I don't see why we need a standard response. I wouldn't want anyone thinking we at the SFP are better than anyone else. Or that we are better players, or that we play the game differently than anyone else, or that our way is better. Believe me, people will think that. They will think we are arrogant. There are already threads where we get, not so much bashed, but where we take the brunt of jokes. I read one thread in which it was said that we smell funny.

    So, I don't want to take away the work already gone into this, but I don't think it is necessary. We could simply respond to the thread posts in question with our usual degree of politeness. Sure, some of the threads get old, but just don't read them or respond to them. They will sink into oblivion soon enough and disappear.

    Whatever you all agree on is OK with me, I just don't see the need.
     
  13. DurfBarian

    DurfBarian IncGamers Member

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    AE's version is shorter and better. The second paragraph in the original focuses too much on "we think you're doing a wrong thing," when all we really need to say is "sorry, we don't talk about those things here."

    So long as the message says the following things, I'm happy with most any boilerplate, though:
    * We don't discuss those things here, sorry
    * It's your choice to do whatever on your own machine
    * But if you do so, remember to be honest about it if you interact with us in the game
    * Happy Googling
     
  14. intrigue762

    intrigue762 IncGamers Member

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    I agree with you on that one, whenever I see a thread asking for editors etc. I just skip it and forget about it. There's nothing wrong with asking for information on these programs, most people just don't know what we're about. Just direct them to google and leave it at that. When I first started single player, I went to open b.net and saw a HUGE amount of players with hacked chars and I assumed all single players hacked their characters.

    Now that I've seen a completely legit community, I realized I was wrong. The SPF should be proud of the fact that we play legitimatley and have a *mostly* clean trading system. The response above is well worded, but as was stated before, something like this just makes us look like an elitist community.
     
  15. wildjinn

    wildjinn IncGamers Member

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    Did you guys read my latest post? I edited in some of the stuff that AE suggested and tried to make it more friendly. Not liking it is fine, but give me some specific suggestions or something. I think that it needs to stay written from an official sort of tone, because it's something coming from the entire forum, not just one of us. I wouldn't hand haven't written anything like this personally to answer any of the questions. If you have ideas or suggestions, fine. Then tell me what they are. I can't work with "this sounds elitist."

    @ Dakar and Intrigue: I also think we sound elitist at times, but I'd greatly prefer this option to the massive flame wars that get people banned. We don't have problems with this? Then explain why AE has to go into most of them and warn people off of what they're doing. I'm trying to cut down on that crap. Sure, this is a high-spoken response, but I'm not trying to please any of the other forums--that's not the point. The point is to give people a courteous response and lead them in the best direction we can for what they want.
     
  16. intrigue762

    intrigue762 IncGamers Member

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    I see where you're coming from, and as I said, I think the response is well worded. I personally have never seen any flame wars simply because I never read these threads. That's just me though. I thought about it a bit and ignoring these posts won't get us anywhere. It's better to tell them. However, threads asking for these programs will never go away. We've always been a helpful forum and I don't want to see a person get flamed for not knowing that we don't support editors etc.
     
  17. ULTIMATER

    ULTIMATER IncGamers Member

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    I used it ones allready, so i voted "sure thing" :)
     
  18. Uzziah

    Uzziah IncGamers Member

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    I like the idea of a standard response however it will need modified as the issues are brought up.

    Question though how will this response be used will we just cut and paste it into the thread each time or will we link directly to it? If its cut and pasted we may get 15-20 identical copies of it within a matter of minutes on the forum.
     
  19. fishman

    fishman IncGamers Member

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    Maybe we could post that response, then lock the thread. I don't know about anyone else, but the civil discussions that quickly backslide into arguments over SP vs. MP/SPF vs. bnet, etc, have gotten pretty tiresome to me.

    I think a standard response would be a good way to let us focus on the game that we all love to play, and avoid the bickering.
     

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