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Same sex marriage (US), health care (US), Greece (EU)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by krischan, Jun 26, 2015.

  1. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    What a wonderful week for the OTF!

    1. US supreme court court: Same sex marriages are fine!
    2. US supreme court: Health care is fine!
    3. Greece: Grexit or should we save them?

    My opinion:

    1. Fine!
    2. Fine!
    3. It's Greece who has to come up with solutions, not us!
     
  2. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    heh heh heh.

    Am I allowed to ruffle the hair of a moderator?
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Diabloii.Net Member

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    if germany would just pay greece the war reparation morally owed, they'd be able to pay off their debt.
     
  4. Technomancer

    Technomancer Diabloii.Net Member

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    LOL, on the US side of things:

    [​IMG]

    Oh, it's been fun watching them crawl out of their skin, but I almost feel sorry for them...

    Almost.
     
  5. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    I wonder what Native Americans would do with their money?
     
  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    No, that won't be enough. That's why they don't demand it openly. They are better off with just talking about it. Whatever, if Greece goes broke, there's nothing wrong with evening out the balance of money they won't otherwise pay with money which we wouldn't either.
     
  7. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    1. I expected this, just not so soon. It's already legal in my state anyways. It doesn't bother me that much really. It'll never be marriage in my book.

    2. Hopefully our next president will take care of this.

    3. They can take care of themselves.
     
  8. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Opposite sex marriage is not marriage in my book.
    Mind you, my book doesn't make any more sense than anyone else's (at least, not in my book).
     
  9. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Well, the president cannot change the constitution on his own, but he might convince the Congress to do that (AFAIK it needs a 2/3 majority to achieve it). Alternatively, he can abandon health care, as the constitution also allows not having it which probably needs just 50% approval plus one vote. Finally, you can dissolve the United States and form a new country, let's say Kesteg's Grand Empire of America with you as the Emperor and rule by decree, as you see fit :)

    Edit:

    BTW, changing the German constitution is tougher. It needs 2/3 of the Bundestag (parliament elected by the people) and 2/3 of the Bundesrat (second house of parliament consisting of representants of the German states... Germany is a federation as well).

    Regarding reparations, Germany will certainly not pay any kind of reparations anymore which aren't symbolic. I think there's some post-WW2 document which says that the question of reparations will be on the table once there's a peace treaty with Germany, but to my knowledge, the matter of reparations has been finally settled with the reunification. Even if it wasn't, here's the catch: There is no such peace treaty with Germany so far, so if that would still be in effect, Germany would probably never sign one unless it contains a passage about reparations which is of Germany's liking. I don't mean to say that we don't have certain moral duties because of the Nazis, but if somebody wants to apply some kind of law, we are as fine with applying it ourselves.

    There's nothing wrong with making gestures of compensation, for moral reasons or whatever, but the question which amount is fitting for such a gesture is probably being abused in order to serve some goal or agenda.

    Finally, if Germany is expected to pay for 70 year old issues (which I don't mean to mitigate), why not extend it to let's 100, 250 or 1000 years, with interests? Almost every country had times in which terrible things were done and the older the issue, the more interests will sum up. If a country caused damage to another country 1000 years ago which is valued at $1 and we apply 5% interests per year, it would sum up to $1.5*10^21 which would be 46*10^12 tons of gold (assuming $1000 per ounce = 31 grams), 290 million times the amount in the hands of humankind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2015
  10. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    1. Should have been left to the states to decide for themselves. Although, quite frankly, the government shouldn't even be in the marriage business to begin with. Expect many clear cut violations of the first amendment to follow this decision.

    2. Obamacare is such a criminal disaster that I don't even have a word for it. Each and every step of the way has been so shady and illegal that you'd think you were watching a movie about organized crime if you didn't know it wasn't a movie. And it ain't over yet.

    3. I'd say Greece just needs to be foreclosed on and "repossessed" at this point. You're not ever going to get your money back from them. But then I remember that the U.S. is not far from being in the exact same situation. I'm not looking forward to being forced to learn Chinese.
     
  11. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Don't forget:

    4. The sky is falling! Buk-buk-buh-KAWK!
     
  12. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    "Global cooli..I mean warmi....I mean change...yeah, that's the one....Global climate change will kill us all unless we pass this new tax and regulate toilet paper use! Wait, what do you mean we can't use 'climate change' anymore? Did Gore make another movie again? Dammit, I thought we told him to stop trying to help us." ;)
     
  13. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Look, you have money, right?

    Well, people want your money. Lefties, righties, environmentalists, scientologists, ventriloquists ... what is difficult about this concept? People want what you have got. They will use whatever means - subterfuge, force, enticement, trained prairie dogs, whatever - to get it away from you.

    You don''t want to give away your money, you don't want people taking it away, same as everyone else. Obama didn't invent the idea, he's just doing his part. He ain't the devil or at least, he isn't the only one.

    Now just cough up your dough or go away and opt-out by living in Qatar or Iraq or somewhere like that. Have fun now!
     
  14. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    Your book scares me. I'm touching it at all, let alone try to read and comprehend it!
    Yes, of course. But he can hopefully work towards the end of it.

    Exactly.
    Pretty much. Too many people these days think that there's a side of the government that's on their side.
     
  15. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    kegs ... if you had hair, I'd ruffle it.
     
  16. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I agree to that, but a court cannot make decisions as they like. They only make decisions about interpreting the laws... in this case the most importent laws of the country. If the decision isn't useful, then it's not the fault of the court, but of the law and thus of those who make the law: The government and the parliament. It's the law which has to be changed then.

    The court hasn't said what the government has to do, just what the law is like.

    The court has decided that it is in concordance with the constitution. Rationally spoken, that means it's not illegal, period. It might not feel legal to you, but that's irrelevant as well. I don't know what it needs to undo a decision of the Supreme Court, but I guess it's very hard. You probably have to change the constitution in order to make it obsolete.

    That means you want to invade Greece and seize what you find. In fact, that was the usual way to settle these disputes until 100 years ago. However, which kind of loot do you expect there? Perhaps disassembling the Acropolis?

    I don't know what it is like for individual states, but the country has far less debts in comparison to the GDP. IIRC, Greece is beyond 200%, the US at 100%.
     
  17. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Hmm. Needs more hyperbole. And cow bell.
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Diabloii.Net Member

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    build more casinos.
     
  19. LozHinge the Unhinged

    LozHinge the Unhinged Diabloii.Net Member

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    Doesn't seem like a very sound investment. Wouldn't that be a gamble?
     
  20. Glurin

    Glurin Diabloii.Net Member

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    And to get that decision, the court was lied to and the justices themselves had to rewrite the law twice. Something which SCOTUS has no authority whatsoever to do.

    As far as getting rid of obamacare is concerned, there's no need to change the constitution. It can be repealed by congress and the president just as easily as it was enacted. We could even do it the same way obamacare was passed if we wanted to. Pass the repeal in the dead of night on a holiday, "deem and pass" it (basically meaning not voting on it), calling it the ACA Improvement Act and ramming it through before anyone even has a chance to read three pages out of the fifty thousand it consists of...

    Basically, yes. Although it would pretty much be Germany and the rest of the eurozone that needs to collect. If you want to disassemble the Acropolis, that's up to you. You already own it now anyway. ;)

    For now. 100% is insane no matter who has it worse, however. Can't keep going like we have been without consequence.
     

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