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Safety: an exercise in SOL runes

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by Kitriara, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Safety: an exercise in SOL runes

    [ Disclaimer: If any of my math is way or something, feel free to correct me, but I'm pretty sure I have it all right! I also doubt this is an original idea, but I havent seen any other posts about it, so here we go. ]

    Man, how can a hardcore character safely survive all of those heavy hits from hell monsters? Lots and lots of life... or, just bring their damage down to something very small!

    The strongest hits in the game do 83-145 damage (Hell Minion of Destruction).
    A SOL rune in anything except a weapon gives Damage Reduced by 7.
    Lets see just how much you could take that damage down to..

    So lets say you have a build that is able to do damage fairly independant of items.
    (frost zealot paladin, most sorcs, wind druid, summoner necro, trapper assassin, etc)

    Note: Crafting safety items gives DR of 1-4. We'll assume a 3 for the average.

    Here are some possible setups that vary depending on your wealth:

    Cheap: Everything normal socketed with easy crafts
    4 socket armor * 7 = 28
    3 socket helm * 7 = 21
    3 socket shield * 7 = 21
    Crafted Safety Boots = 3
    Crafted Safety Gloves = 3
    Crafted Safety Amulet = 3
    Crafted Safety Ring = 3
    Crafted Safety Ring = 3
    Crafted Safety Belt = 3

    Total = **
    New Hell Minion Damage: 0 - 57


    Medium: Some uniques, socketed with SOLs of course
    (while this doesnt achieve such a huge maximum, you'll get more of other bonuses)
    Gladiators Bane / Iron Pelt = 15-20 (lets assume 17)
    + SOL = 24
    3 socket helm * 7 = 21
    4 socket shield * 7 = 28
    Goblin Toe = 1
    Crafted Safety Gloves = 3
    Crafted Safety Amulet = 3
    Crafted Safety Ring = 3
    Crafted Safety Ring = 3
    Bladebuckle = 3

    Total = 89
    New Hell Minion Damage: 0 - 56

    Not much of a difference, but now our equipment is overall better.


    Expensive: More uniques, socketed with SOLs.
    (Note: Straight reduction comes before percentages, otherwise you could
    effectively take NO damage with some setups, and thats unfair it seems. =P )
    Gladiators Bane / Iron Pelt = 15-20 (lets assume 17)
    + SOL = 24
    10% Vampire Gaze/Rockstopper + SOL = 7
    Gerke's Sanctuary = 11-16 (lets assume 14)
    + SOL = 21
    Goblin Toe = 1
    Crafted Safety Gloves = 3
    Crafted Safety Amulet = 3
    Nature's Peace: 7-11 (lets assume 9)
    Crafted Safety Ring = 3
    13% string of ears = 0

    Total: 23% and 71 straight up
    (83 to 145) - 71 = (83-71 to 145-71) which is (12 to 74)
    Apply the % reduction:
    (12 to 74) - 23% = (12-2 to 74-17) thus
    New Hell Minion Damage: 0 - 57 (same as you'd get with plain socketed and crafts!)


    Elite: If you can afford everything you could possibly want, and make sure you get only the best stats on it
    (I hate you filthy rich people!)
    Gladiators Bane / Iron Pelt = 15-20 (lets assume 19)
    + SOL = 26
    18% Vampire Gaze + SOL = 7
    Gerke's Sanctuary = 11-16 (lets assume 14)
    + SOL = 21
    Crafted Safety Boots = 4
    Crafted Safety Gloves = 4
    Crafted Safety Amulet = 4
    Nature's Peace: 7-11 (lets assume 10)
    Nature's Peace: 7-11 (lets assume 10)
    15% string of ears = 0

    Total: 33% and 86 straight up
    (83 to 145) - 86 = (83-86 to 145-86) which is (0 to 59)
    Apply the % reduction:
    (0 to 59) - 33% = (0 to 59-19) thus
    New Hell Minion Damage: 0 - 40

    Finally, for fun, lets assume this an assassin with level 20 fade... % DR now = 50... also doable with things like a SS but the rest of the calculations change then.


    Total: 50% and 86 straight up
    (83 to 145) - 86 = (83-86 to 145-86) which is (0 to 59)
    Apply the % reduction:
    (0 to 59) - 50% = (0 to 59-29) thus
    New Hell Minion Damage: 0 - 30 (this is pretty much the average damage Lister the Tormenter does in NORMAL)

    I hope you enjoyed this exercise in the greatness of SOL runes =) I was thinking of starting a paladin named Solly with this type of build in mind.

    Comments welcome.
     
  2. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    After ya add all those Sols for PDR ya walk into Worldstone 2 WP and get Zapped by a big boss pack of Gloams and die before getting BO.....game over!

    Resists are still king in this game! People dont die near as much to physical damage as they do to elements, but there are still tons of ppl that think PDR is king!

    Oh well!
     
  3. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Bah, BO... I never worry about it... all my characters are hell-usable sans BO. Yes, you CAN go through hell with only 1000 life if you have a good build. It helps, surely, but everyone is so scared to set foot outside of town without it.

    I totally agree with max resists - I assume that any HC player should have them all at at least 75. If you have good resists and decent you can pretty much tank hell gloams as long as you have some healing potions.
     
  4. Bearcub

    Bearcub IncGamers Member

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    Most of the elite gear he was mentioning also has magic damage reduce too. Another great item for a sol build is the amulets that give 25 damage reduction. As a barb one can put extra pnts in natural resist which helps too. Or a trapper with fade.
     
  5. CoonerTheRed

    CoonerTheRed IncGamers Member

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    don't lister and pals have a critical strike kinda thing that doubles damage often enough?

    i'm sure its not around, but i'm pretty sure baranor did one of his budget guides like this, though maybe that was mdr? bah, i'm forgetful... though this was at least a year ago... and 1.09
     
  6. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    I thought it was Mr Bill that did this with an assassin. If I recall correctly, he took no damage in NM Bloodies. Of course, with the special guest villians of 1.10 it's moot, but still something fun to play with.
     
  7. kurg

    kurg IncGamers Member

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    The problem is that sol runes take of a fixed number of points. Your figures suggest that about 100 dmg off per hit is the best attainable.

    Now take a fanat + might archer (or fanat extra strong, etc). Very possible in hell with a bad boss combo. Now I don't know the stats in hell for fanat/might lvl ** bosses, but I'm guessing they add hudreds of percent per shot. So now a single arrow from an archer might do 1000 damage. And all of those sol runes are going to reduce it to 900 damage. Now I suppose thats an improvement, but you're still going to die if its a multishot boss, or if several minion arrows connect at the same time.

    In that case % damage reduction would be MUCH better. In fact, even the lowly string of ears could save you 150 damage on one 1,000 damage arrow, and you could use all of those sockets for something more useful like P-Rubies, Resist jewels/runes, P Topaz, etc.

    So although there are certain places in the game where the Sol idea might help, I'd say overall its not going to save you from the hard hitters, which is where you REALLY need to worry anyway. I.e. how many people die from listers minions when he's not might/fanat enhanced? Almost none, barring lag of course, and barring his FireEnchanted + LE/CE death explosion which will kill you even with 100 sol runes.

    Its a nice idea, I just dont think it pans out well, except in very special circumstances (i.e. Lag in front of non-boss enhanced monsters).

    As a different track, I would really like to know how to diminish the hurt that gloams do. I don't have any items with lightning absorb. But I do have 75 lightning resist. But boss combos can still wipe me out in a hurry. (This happened to my sorc in nm). Does MDR apply to gloam hits (I would think not)? Or is the only thing that can protect you 95% lighting resist or lightning absorb? So if you're like me and don't have any lightning absorb gear (or +max lightning resist items), you're screwed vs gloam bosses?
     
  8. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    KURG,

    SOL damage reduction is from base damage so it doesnt matter what arura might be invloved. If somthing hit for 100 base and was boosted buy aruras to be say 500, but you had 50 damage reduce from SOL rune it goes to 50 and 250 aruratized.
     
  9. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    I'd just like to add this isnt supposed to be the Official Super Unstoppable Method or anything, it was something I put together for fun whilst I was bored at work =)

    But thanks all for your comments. Is there anyone out there who has done this in 1.10?
     
  10. Bearcub

    Bearcub IncGamers Member

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    I have about 60 mdr gear on my barb and nm gloams do nothing to him. Even enhanced ones. Yet to try it out on Hell ones.
     
  11. Dire_Wulf

    Dire_Wulf IncGamers Member

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    Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,

    this has been my little secret since ladder started.

    My set up is:
    Tesladin
    4 sock ornate plate of amicai (43 reduce) (cost 1.2mill from vendor)
    22 ammy with 18 all resist
    SS with p-diamon (oh yes, ill get back to this)
    31 circlet with 3 offensive auras (sol'd)
    2 resist rings
    T-gods
    Crescent Moon Phase Blade
    lots of resist charms

    98 damage reduce
    35% damage reduce
    max resists
    untouchable

    See, what happens is that % reduce is counted before - damage taken. And yes, it works in hell.

    Oh, in the case of fanat boss packs... I find usually that faster r/w works much better than damage reduce :D
     
  12. GenXCub

    GenXCub IncGamers Member

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    Dire, have you confirmed that with the stats forum? In the case of elemental damage, MDR comes BEFORE resists, but then again PDR on items may work differently since it's not the same as an elemental resist.
     
  13. Dire_Wulf

    Dire_Wulf IncGamers Member

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    No, I havent confirmed with the stats forum, I ran some tests in PVP using an isenharts sword (18-19 damage)
     
  14. Kitriara

    Kitriara IncGamers Member

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    Actually, they told me over at the statistics forum that straight DR comes before percentages, which makes sense.

    If it didnt, using my above final example with 50% DR, you would be taking 0 - 0 damage from Hell Minions. I'm pretty sure its straight DR then percents.
     
  15. doubleOObubble

    doubleOObubble IncGamers Member

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    It has already been mentioned, but you can get alot higher numbers than the "elite" setup. If we are talking elite, then consider Dire_wulfs example and some:

    It's possible to get a Jeweler's Monarch of Amicae for example. That's 53 to PDR right there. I'm not sure what suffixes are available for helms, but in any case, you'll have at least 21 to PDR with an Artisan's...

    Dire_wulf's armor of course. His build uses SS, but add that Monarch and some a/two natures peace and you'll close in on and pass 160 PDR... Anyway, it's probably better to use some balance between PDR and %DR, all I'm saying is that you can get really high numbers if you shop for a "while". :lol:
     
  16. Radagast

    Radagast IncGamers Member

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    Would this make a thorns paladin viable, or is thorns calculated on the amount of dmg actually taken... :scratch:
     
  17. kurg

    kurg IncGamers Member

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    I don't know anything about order-of-game calculations. Everytime I get it sorted out, blizz changes it the next patch.

    But I do have a 1.10 thorns/conversion pally, and I can say this:

    If the PDR thing works, it would help a thorns paladin regardless of when thorns dmg is calculated. The reason? Because once you get past normal, and certainly by late nightmare, you no longer want your paladin to be the punching bag. You want him to live and not get hurt. You want the converted monsters to take the damage, and they don't have any PDR, so whether thorns is calculated before or after PDR doesn't matter in practice.

    The only time it might matter is fighting bosses like Baal, where you kinda have to let him hit you in order for thorns to put a dent in him. Alternatively, just use crushing blow against baal/diablo/etc. :)
     
  18. Flamearrows

    Flamearrows IncGamers Member

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    This build was created awhile back in the single player forum. My friend was seriously considering following it, if just for kicks - that guide recommended a necro, because they don't need much gear to be sucessful in 1.10. I think the maximum possible straight PDR is around 120. Consider this item -

    Jeweler's Tiara of Life Everlasting
    3 sockets, and up to 25 PDR. that's enough to cancel everything in normal with just one item :D

    flamearrows
     
  19. doubleOObubble

    doubleOObubble IncGamers Member

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    "I think the maximum possible straight PDR is around 120."
    Code:
    Tiara:   47
    Ammy:    25
    Shield:  53
    Armor:   53
    Rings:   22
    Gloves:   4
    Belt:     4
    Boots:    4
    (Weapon:  4)
    ------------
    =       216
    216 would be an attainable max (212 if you don't want your char wielding a Javelin ;))

    That's pretty sweet, come to think one could get decent resists from charms. It's not like one need an excess of life charms... :lol:

    If one maxes Bone armor, that'd be one tough Necro!
     
  20. jrr315

    jrr315 IncGamers Member

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    So if a necro maxes bone armor and its synergies does that make him imune to physical dmg? or are they not the same thing?
     

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