Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Sacrifice...

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Vang, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. Vang

    Vang IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Sacrifice...

    Seriously. I've looked, I've scoured and not one Pat using this skill. Why do I ask? Because I Vang have decided to use this pile and..its freaking deadly.

    Benefits of this skill:
    • Hit that skeleton and DIE!
    • You thought IM was gone?
    • IM in EVERY encounter, just remove life leech
    • Need to bust that wall in act5? Prepare for multiple corpse runs!
    • Did I mention you die a lot?

    Drawbacks of this wonderful skill:
    • 3.12 Max Attack speed compared to a min 4+APS zeal
    • Slower than Zeal
    • Not as safe as Zeal
    • Not as safe as Conversion
    • Not as safe as smite
    • Not as safe as any other skill available in the entire game
    • Need lots of life leech to effectively use
    • PDR or DR% do not reduce the incoming damage from yourself
    • Not a good skill in HC

    Back on a serious note, has anyone actually completed a Pat with this bloody thing. I was able to get up to about 1800% off-weapon ED(when fully done), but killing yourself on a critical hit kind of sucks..
     
  2. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Re: Sacrifice...

    It's been done at least a few times. I know omg (?) had a titan version at some point. :D

    If I'm not mistaken, people call them Martyrs, so look for that in your searches. :)
     
  3. Vang

    Vang IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,296
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Re: Sacrifice...

    Thanks for that tip Nagisa

    I looked up a few, and saw that critical strike does not work, guess that 6.5k hit in NM at level 51 kind of did the trick back to my skull then eh? So that death I just made kind of ugh now since I wanted it for this build. Interesting builds, but not enjoyable for me unfortunately to finish this build.
     
  4. zarirazz

    zarirazz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Sacrifice...

    yeah, there are pats built around sacrifice, but it's not common.

    there's a guide somewhere in the net (again search martyr) that list mods that you should stay away from when building a martyr. ed to undead/demons and crit strike included.

    afaik, dr is almost essential to such build. max dr (50%), in way cut down the damage to self to 4%.

    personally, i've got such build planned (will proceed should time permits) whereby it's main aura is redemption (a synergy) instead of fana..

    btw, food for thought: could fade from treachery trigger from sacrifice?
     
  5. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Messages:
    7,042
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Sacrifice...

    I'm not sure why people call them Martyrs when Emodin sounds so much better.

    The only thing I really hated about the build is that even when you miss, you still seemingly take damage on occasion even though it shouldn't happen. Sometimes my Emodin would whiff and lose HP. :doh: That, and skeleton misclicks.
     
  6. Toy

    Toy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Re: Sacrifice...

    I lost a HC Martyr to Iron Maiden in Act 4 Hell a while back.

    It was an interesting experience but it got kind of tedious having to pick up and sell every single item that dropped to cover the cost of merc deaths + restoring the lifetap charges that had to be used on every monster I encountered.
     
  7. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,818
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    468
    Re: Sacrifice...

    Does damage taken goes to mana work with this build?
    If you get amped do you take more damage?
     
  8. zarirazz

    zarirazz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Sacrifice...

    ^^dgtm will get you back a considerable sum of mana but it doesn't reduce damage, so it's pointless. and sacrifice doesn't need mana, so again pointless.

    as for amp, yes. your physical resistance is reduced.
     
  9. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,818
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    468
    Re: Sacrifice...

    But if your life regen is high enough you can effectively be gaining mana off unleechables. If you've access to life tap +dgtm you can switch to hammers spam them then switch back for mana boost while doing damage.
     
  10. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    134
    Re: Sacrifice...

    You don't have to bother with % Life Stolen per hit if you use Life Tap charges: life returned by % LS is reduced by both difficulty level penalties and monster drain effectiveness, whereas that returned by LT is not (so it will always return 42% of physical damage to life after 8% damage to self has been accounted for). Damage to self is applied before life is returned, so if damage to self >= life then you'll die before you can be healed.

    Critical Strike and Deadly Strike don't apply to Sacrifice's damage, either to the target or to yourself: 6,500 physical damage and 100% DS would result in 6,500 physical damage to a target with Damage Resist 0% and 520 damage to self.

    Neither integer nor percentage damage reduction applies to damage to self: however, by reducing physical damage from other sources it makes it less likely that you'll be reduced to a point where damage to self >= life.

    If you are cursed with Amplify Damage, damage to self isn't increased (the advantage of DR % not being applied is that AD's DR -100% doesn't get applied either), although physical damage from other sources will be. However, if the target is cursed with AD or Decrepify (DR -50%), reducing their DR % results in more physical damage being applied and thus more damage to self.
     
  11. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Sacrifice...

    I maxed in on my zealing smiter for synergies, always wondered if anyone actually used it.
     
  12. Shagsbeard

    Shagsbeard IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,034
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Re: Sacrifice...

    The term "Martyr" in this context predates the term "emo". That's how long we've been playing this game.



     
  13. zarirazz

    zarirazz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    2,777
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Sacrifice...

    @onderduiker

    is it ok if you post the up-to-date guide/mechanics on sacrifice. it seems that the ones i'm referencing is outdated in light of your post.. thx =)
     
  14. onderduiker

    onderduiker IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,149
    Likes Received:
    160
    Trophy Points:
    134
    Re: Sacrifice...

    I think I covered the main mechanical issues in my previous post, but I'll add that both Sacrifice's damage to self and healing from leeching is based on actual physical damage, not potential damage: applying 6,500 damage to a target with 1,000 remaining life will only result in 80 damage to self, not 520, and Life Tap would return 500 life, not 3,250. Attacking an Immune to Physical monster would result in no damage to self.

    Treachery armour's 5% Chance to Cast Level 15 Fade on Striking would be applied by Sacrifice (as should every other damage modifier with the exception of Critical Strike and Deadly Strike), but damage to self doesn't trigger % Chance to Cast When Struck.

    Unfortunately I can't remember a more recent guide to Sacrifice.
     
  15. Doctor Clock

    Doctor Clock IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2004
    Messages:
    1,442
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Sacrifice...

    To answer your question, Vang, I made a Martyr not too long ago. Mine, however, was a Martyr/Abbot, so I stacked a lot of PDR gear along with a Prayer/Insight merc for health regen. I also used smite to proc Life Tap (Dracul's) whenever things got hairy.
     
  16. tavaritz

    tavaritz Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Sacrifice...

    And further more emodin is a name of a resin from rhubarb that is laxative, but also known to have anticancer functions.


     
  17. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Messages:
    7,042
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Sacrifice...

    Follow up question: if I were to miss an attack, would I still take damage? I just loaded my Emodin and played with him for a bit, and whenever I go for a moving target (and thus miss my attack), I'll still take returned damage.



     
  18. Gillsing

    Gillsing IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    26
    Re: Sacrifice...

    Interesting. According to The Arreat Summit, you do take the full damage, and that's what would make Sacrifice so dangerous, since you wouldn't be guaranteed to leech back enough life to cover the damage. And that's why I always thought that the skill would be best suited for fighting monsters with lots of HPs, and perhaps use another skill to finish them off. But if that's not true, I guess it really doesn't matter how much life the monsters have.

    I've never really considered that 8% of the damage dealt might be more than the remaining life of a not-near-dead paladin, but with a high-powered weapon and a maxed skill I guess that's a serious concern. The raw physical damage combined with the stationary stance seems like it would work well with Thorns, as the paladin would be able to afford to get hit given the 42% surplus life leech from Life Tap. I tried that tactic with a lot of regular life leech in normal Act II back when Thorns worked a lot better in all difficulties, but I don't think the extra life leech was quite enough to satisfy. Then again, monsters did a lot more damage compared to their life in those days. My thoughts at the time was that all the surplus life leech was basically potential damage x10 with level 20 Thorns (I only got it to 11 with that paladin), but I guess it didn't solve the problem I had with getting overwhelmed by bosspacks. Never had a chance to try it out with Life Tap though, but now that Thorns don't work as well against monsters I guess it's a moot point, as it would most likely be faster to kill them with Fanaticism rather than Thorns, even when there are several monsters surrounding the paladin and hitting him all the time.

    Hmm. Five monsters hitting the paladin for 100 points each means roughly 5000 points of returned damage before resistance, and to heal up with Life Tap the paladin would have to hit the monsters for 1200 damage after resistance in the same time. And if that's the damage of a fully synergized Sacrifice with thorns activated (and Str bonus of +100%), a level 20 Fanaticism would turn that into roughly 1620 points of damage and allow the paladin to attack a bit faster. Looks like Thorns would outdamage Fanaticism there, but it's a very situational thing I suppose. The paladin would probably prefer to do much higher damage than just enough to keep up, and as soon as not enough monsters are hitting with melee attacks, Fanaticism becomes better.

    And nowadays melee seems to be mostly about applying Crushing Blow, and Zeal is probably better for that, unless you're fighting a manaburner. Speaking of Crushing Blow, since you don't leech from it, I assume that Sacrifice doesn't take it into consideration when applying damage to the paladin? Because that would be quite lethal.


     
  19. Jason Maher

    Jason Maher IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    3,031
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Re: Sacrifice...

    Blizzard screwed up with the design of Sacrifice. If they had just given it a fixed Life Cost (equivalent to the Mana Cost of other skills) it would have worked.
     
  20. omgwtfbbqpwned

    omgwtfbbqpwned IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Messages:
    7,042
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Sacrifice...

    ^ But then it'll either be too punishing in Normal, or negligible in Hell. :p
     

Share This Page