Runeword Bows... which one ?

[UnRegistred]

Runeword Bows... which one ?

I'm new to runewords bow.

I read the entire D2 faq but still have few questions

There seem to be several good bows out there (apparently better than Windforce which i still doubt), but these bows are so out of reach for noobs. The runes required are so hard to get.

Until today, i though there was only two Bows but i came accross this list.

1) Brand Matriarchal Bow
2) Breath of Dying Crusader Bow
3) Breath of Dying Hydra Bow
4) Fortitude Matriarchal Bow
5) Hand of Justice Matriarchal Bow
6) Ice Grand Matron Bow
7) Phoenix Matriarchal Bow
8) Brand Grand Matron Bow
9) Faith Grand Matron Bow +1 All Skills
10) Ice Matriarchal Bow
11) Phoenix Matriarchal Bow
etc...

Now i was wondering if someone could tell which one is best to have, why do they have different names .i.e ( Breath, brand, faith, ice). The parts to collect to craft the bow you beleive is best and what make that bow the best ?

 

[Chimaira]

The new hot bow is Faith...preferably in a Grand Matron Bow, although you could get unlucky on the Fanatiscism aura roll and get a low one, which is bad for reaching the last breakpoint.

I'm not sure how much you actually know about Diablo II...but the difference in names is caused by them being different runewords. Runes are items that you can find, like gems and then socket them in items...If you socket them in the correct order, you'll get a runeword with lots of special bonuses.

You can go here and read more about runewords...

http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/runewords.shtml

Whether Faith is better than Windforce I'm not completely sure...Windforce is still the raw damage dealer king, but Faith is much faster and requires less Increased Attack Speed than Windforce, thus allowing you to wear some pretty decent stuff. Faith bow + Fortitude armor is a kickass combination for example. All the bows you mention are very decent bows, but Faith is probably the best.

You can also check here where there is a very in-depth bow comparison.

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=293297

Also welcome to the forums if no one else has said it, and always remember to check the stickies for valuable information.

 

[UnRegistred]

The new hot bow is Faith...preferably in a Grand Matron Bow, although you could get unlucky on the Fanatiscism aura roll and get a low one, which is bad for reaching the last breakpoint.

I'm not sure how much you actually know about Diablo II...but the difference in names is caused by them being different runewords. Runes are items that you can find, like gems and then socket them in items...If you socket them in the correct order, you'll get a runeword with lots of special bonuses.

Whether Faith is better than Windforce I'm not completely sure...Windforce is still the raw damage dealer king, but Faith is much faster and requires less Increased Attack Speed than Windforce, thus allowing you to wear some pretty decent stuff. Faith bow + Fortitude armor is a kickass combination for example. All the bows you mention are very decent bows, but Faith is probably the best.
.

Are you saying when we socket the right runes we still get random bonuses ?

What bonuses do we want the most ?

What kind of grey socketable bow should we use to get the right bonuses ?

 

[Chimaira]

Are you saying when we socket the right runes we still get random bonuses ?

What bonuses do we want the most ?

What kind of grey socketable bow should we use to get the right bonuses ?

When you socket a runeword into an item you get a set of predetermined mods + the mods on the runes. The predetermined mods can be random like Faiths +lvl 12-15 Fanatiscism aura.

That's a difficult question to answer...but damage, speed, knockback, mana leech, Ignores Target Defence, -% enemy defence, lots of mods really.

It doesn't matter which grey item you use, as long as it has the right amount of sockets and is compatible with the runeword you are going to use. For Faith a Grand Matron Bow (preferably with +3 bow skills) would probably be the best choice.

Let's take Faith as an example:

Faith 4 socketed missile weapons (Ohm+Jah+Lem+Eld)

This means you need a missile weapon with 4 sockets (bow or crossbow) and then socket an Ohm,Jah,Lem,Eld in the correct order...
If you do this you will gain the bonusses from the runes..

Ohm=50% enhanced damage
Jah=Ignores Target Defence
Lem=75% Extra Gold From Monsters
Eld=+75% Damage To Undead +50 To Attack Rating Against Undead

On top of this you'll get these preset bonusses from Faith runeword.

Level 12-15 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped (varies)
+1-2 To All Skills (varies)
+280% Enhanced Damage
300% Bonus To Attack Rating
All Resistances +15
10% Reanimate As: Returned

Did you go to the link I provided??? If you read the runeword section there you should pretty much know everything about runewords and how to socket them. If you have further questions please feel free to ask.

 

[UnRegistred]

Did you go to the link I provided??? If you read the runeword section there you should pretty much know everything about runewords and how to socket them. If you have further questions please feel free to ask.

i See, i start to understand

But what about the names.. When a Faith bow heritate Grand Matron in the name i.e:

Faith Grand Matron Bow

Does it mean the person who made it used a grey socketable Grand Matron ?

Let just say for example i use a grey Hunter's bow with 4 empty sockets, am i gona get a Faith Hunter Bow ?

I know it would be stupid to use a Hunter bow.. but as an example, is that how it get named once rune'd ?

 

[Chimaira]

But what about the names.. When a Faith bow heritate Grand Matron in the name i.e:

Faith Grand Matron Bow

Does it mean the person who made it used a grey socketable Grand Matron ?

Yes

Let just say for example i use a grey Hunter's bow with 4 empty sockets, am i gona get a Faith Hunter Bow ?

You are correct again. Faith is the name of the runeword...Grand Matron Bow is just the item you used to make it in.

 

[UnRegistred]

Yes



You are correct again. Faith is the name of the runeword...Grand Matron Bow is just the item you used to make it in.

cool

But maybe im missing something, how come i see people killing Hell Cows in almost 1 hit ?

I use a WF and maxed out Strafe, 10 in multi, 14 in Freezin, and 340 Dex (saving remaining points)

With a lvl 20 Valk tanking It takes me like 10 seconds to drop 1 single hell cow, with just me in the game. With 8 players i can't kill a single Hell Cow.

How come some people can kill a whole bunch of hell cows with just a couple of strikes ? am i doing something wrong ?

I though it was the bow... i must be doing something wrong.

 

[Chimaira]

I use a WF and maxed out Strafe, 10 in multi, 14 in Freezin, and 340 Dex (saving remaining points)

First of all this is probably not a very good way to spend your points...You need to focus on 1-2 main skills. This will free up some more points for Critical Strike/Dodge/Pierce/Penetrate, stuff that you really need.

With a lvl 20 Valk tanking It takes me like 10 seconds to drop 1 single hell cow, with just me in the game.

This can't be true...with only you in the game and using Windforce it won't take 10 seconds...Maybe your attack rating is crap, maybe your attack speed is crap (Windforce is a naturally slow bow, that requires a good deal of IAS to get decent speed), what skill are you using?

My guess is that your attack rating isn't very good, and that you fire too slowly...also stuff like Crushing Blow and Deadly strike can make a difference.
The people you are refering to are probably also using a Fortitude armor which gives a huge bonus to damage...if you can get this one, it will also help a lot. Maybe post the rest of your equipment, that way I can help you better.

 

[UnRegistred]

First of all this is probably not a very good way to spend your points...You need to focus on 1-2 main skills. This will free up some more points for Critical Strike/Dodge/Pierce/Penetrate, stuff that you really need.



This can't be true...with only you in the game and using Windforce it won't take 10 seconds...Maybe your attack rating is crap, maybe your attack speed is crap (Windforce is a naturally slow bow, that requires a good deal of IAS to get decent speed), what skill are you using?

My guess is that your attack rating isn't very good, and that you fire too slowly...also stuff like Crushing Blow and Deadly strike can make a difference.
The people you are refering to are probably also using a Fortitude armor which gives a huge bonus to damage...if you can get this one, it will also help a lot. Maybe post the rest of your equipment, that way I can help you better.

Ok maybe not 10 seconds, maybe 6 or 7 seconds.. but its still alot more slower than some people ive seen, dropping a Hell cow in 2 sec with 8 players in the game.

Anyway,
The main skill i use the most is Strafe, I only use Multi in cow level.

Everything i shoot at i use strafe, small creatures up to big bosses i use strafe. Is that a good idea ?

I only change to Freezing when something is immuned to physical. And when it is immuned to Physical and Cold, i swith to lvl 1 magic.

When i press C to bring up character window this is what i read:

With WF equiped

----------------------------------------------------------

Attack Damage: 179-2217

When selected:
Strafe Damage: 168-2151
Multi-shot Damage : 137-1772
Freezing Arrow Damage: 179-2217 (337-360 written in blue)
Guided Arrow: 193-2420
Magic Arrow: 184-2222
----------------------------------------------------------


Attack Rating: 2444

When selected:
Strafe rating : 2444
Multi shot Rating : 2444
Freezing arrow rating: 4636

When i hire my Merc i get some more bonuses

i.e: instead of 2444 dmg i get 2800 dmg. But it usualt doesnt last long. My merc dies really quick in Hell cow.

As for the rest of the gears, i use nothing that boost damage output. Everything i wear is for resistances..

Fire : 26
Cold : 19
Lightning : 8
Poison : -40

Which is not bad a noob zon in Hell mode. But when doing Hell cow i use +60% magic find jewelry

Anyway. what do you think ? where is my problem ?

 

[Chimaira]

Ok maybe not 10 seconds, maybe 6 or 7 seconds.. but its still alot more slower than some people ive seen, dropping a Hell cow in 2 sec with 8 players in the game.

They probably have all the sweet equipment, that you don't have access to, but don't worry Windforce is an awesome bow and you should be able to kill very well with it.

The main skill i use the most is Strafe, I only use Multi in cow level.

You could also try Freezing Arrow...if you have pierce this skill is a good mob killer...I just don't know how much cold resistance Hell cows have...

Everything i shoot at i use strafe, small creatures up to big bosses i use strafe. Is that a good idea ?

Yes... Strafe is an excellent all-round skill, works for all situations.

When i hire my Merc i get some more bonuses
i.e: instead of 2444 dmg i get 2800 dmg. But it usualt doesnt last long. My merc dies really quick in Hell cow.

Hell cows isn't the best place for a merc...there are so many enemies that he simply can't survive for long unless he has the best possible equipment...maybe you should play somewhere else?? The Pits in act 1 should be doable and can drop any item in the game Also the increase in damage leads me to suspect that your might mercenary is lower level than yourself...If he is lower level, he will die very often, also his might aura won't benefit you so much

As for the rest of the gears, i use nothing that boost damage output. Everything i wear is for resistances..

That's a very reasonable approach...you're better of alive and slowly killing than dead, and...dead.

Which is not bad a noob zon in Hell mode. But when doing Hell cow i use +60% magic find jewelry

If you wear Magic Find stuff it usually lessens your kill speed/survivability...If you really want to kill faster, consider switching that MF jewelry for Ravenfrost, Angelic Combo, Highlord's, Mara's Caleidoscope.

Anyway. what do you think ? where is my problem ?

I don't really think you have a problem...I would die to get a Windforce an it's an awesome bow, so that is definitely not your problem. Your attack rating is okay but could definitely be better. I think the main problem is your speed...I don't know what your equipment is, but that's really the only reason I can find. Also don't expect to mow down cows on players 8 like other people do. Those players will most definitely have access to some very cool stuff like Faith+Fortitude which will really help your damage. Maybe try playing other places than Hell cows and in smaller games...A bowazon without top-notch gear isn't a killing machine in players 8 games. Also I'm a bit worried about your points placement...do you have Valkyrie, Penetrate, Pierce and such?

I really think you should read this guide....

http://www.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?t=175957

And after that ask some more questions if you are still confused.

Edit: You may also be too low-level...generally speaking lvl 75 is "minimum" for entering Hell.

 

[UnRegistred]

They probably have all the sweet equipment, that you don't have access to, but don't worry Windforce is an awesome bow and you should be able to kill very well with it.


Hell cows isn't the best place for a merc...there are so many enemies that he simply can't survive for long unless he has the best possible equipment...maybe you should play somewhere else?? The Pits in act 1 should be doable and can drop any item in the game Also the increase in damage leads me to suspect that your might mercenary is lower level than yourself...If he is lower level, he will die very often, also his might aura won't benefit you so much

.

Pit in act 1 ? where is the pit ?

My valk skill is almost maxed out.

Under passive skill tab:

Critical strike is at 8 ( thats 7 base + 1 from the armor im wearing)

Penetrate is at 2 (1 base + 1....)

Pierce is at 4 (3 base + 1...)

I didn't put too many points into these because apparently some bows have Ignore target's defense..

All other skills are at preriquisite + 1 (2)

Except valkyri which is at 20 (19 base + 1)

The reason im doing Hell cow is because i wana find a grey socketable Grand Matron and hopefully runes.

Best runes i found in cow lvl was a Ko. With that rune i could probably make an Harmony crossbow

 

[Chimaira]

Pit in act 1 ? where is the pit ?

It's in the Tamoe Highlands in act 1....the easiest way is probably Outer Cloister waypoint and then exit the Cloister and follow the road until you come to one of the cave entrances...The pit is a good overall magic find place because it's relatively easy (especially for a Strafeazon) and champions and bosses can drop any item in the game

My valk skill is almost maxed out.

Good... she is very valuable, even more so if you don't have all the high end gear.

I didn't put too many points into these because apparently some bows have Ignore target's defense..

This of course only helps, if you have a bow with ITD...also ITD doesn't work with bosses and champions so you still need a decent attack rating.

The reason im doing Hell cow is because i wana find a grey socketable Grand Matron and hopefully runes.

Cows is a good place to find both...however the magic find jewelry you were talking about earlier will actually make it harder for you to find a grey socketable Grand Matron Bow As for runes Countess is a very good source of mid-level runes, actually all the way up to Ist, but especially stuff like Shaels. Also running Lower Kurast in a game with lots of players and popping chests,logs,corpses,etc is also a good rune source

Best runes i found in cow lvl was a Ko. With that rune i could probably make an Harmony crossbow

Harmony is a very good bow, but Windforce is better...and the + to valkyrie isn't really cool for you. The Vigor is nice but not really all that special. It would however be a kickass bow to have on switch to deal with PI's since it has high elemental damage. Also don't make it in a crossbow...cause crossbows are very slow.

Your passives could use a bit more points...although this could be gotten from equipment...still Pierce+Penetrate is a bit low, but nothing serious...I really think that it's your attack speed that's the problem. Windforce is an inherently slow bow and it requires a massive 120% IAS to reach the 9/2 breakpoint...which would be ideal for max killing prowes.

 

[UnRegistred]

Your passives could use a bit more points...although this could be gotten from equipment...still Pierce+Penetrate is a bit low, but nothing serious...I really think that it's your attack speed that's the problem. Windforce is an inherently slow bow and it requires a massive 120% IAS to reach the 9/2 breakpoint...which would be ideal for max killing prowes.

WF too slow? it says very fast though..

I can probably bring the WF to the NPC in act5 to get 1 socket, then i can put a Shael rune to get more speed out of the bow.

Should i ?

 

[Chimaira]

WF too slow? it says very fast though..

Okay speed is definitely your problem...the very fast attack speed that is displayed on Windforce is very misleading...in actual gameplay Windforce is one of the slowest bows ever. You're not the first one to be fooled by displayed attack speed, but it really has nothing to do with actual attack speed. One weird example is assasin claws...they're always very fast/fast when an assasin uses them but when other classes use them they are very slow.

I can probably bring the WF to the NPC in act5 to get 1 socket, then i can put a Shael rune to get more speed out of the bow.Should i ?

You should definitely do that...and more. The optimal attack speed for a Windforce is 9/2 which can be achieved by getting 120% IAS...Now Windforce already has 20% and if you socket a Shael you'll have 40%, that means you need 80% from the rest of your gear....There are several options...

20% IAS gloves ( a must have)
Cat's Eye/Highlord's Wrath amulet 20% IAS
Nosferatus' Coil 10% IAS
15% IAS jewels socketed in armor/helm
A 4 socketed armor with 4x15% IAS jewels preferably with other mods.

There are probably more options but these are all I can think of right now. If you can't get all of that stuff at least try to get 40% IAS (from gear) on top of your Shaeled Windforce...this will give you the 9/3 breakpoint which is okay but not really good. I'm guessing that you don't have any IAS on your gear right now which means you're shooting at 13/3 which is kind of slow, especially with few monsters around.

 

[UnRegistred]

You should definitely do that...and more. The optimal attack speed for a Windforce is 9/2 which can be achieved by getting 120% IAS...Now Windforce already has 20% and if you socket a Shael you'll have 40%, that means you need 80% from the rest of your gear....There are several options...

20% IAS gloves ( a must have)
Cat's Eye/Highlord's Wrath amulet 20% IAS
Nosferatus' Coil 10% IAS
15% IAS jewels socketed in armor/helm
A 4 socketed armor with 4x15% IAS jewels preferably with other mods.

There are probably more options but these are all I can think of right now. If you can't get all of that stuff at least try to get 40% IAS (from gear) on top of your Shaeled Windforce...this will give you the 9/3 breakpoint which is okay but not really good. I'm guessing that you don't have any IAS on your gear right now which means you're shooting at 13/3 which is kind of slow, especially with few monsters around.

Silly questions:

What does IAS mean ?

and 9/3 13/3 what do they mean ? Do you mean 9 divided by 3 or something ?

The gloves im using has +2 skills so i don't know how i can replace it with speed boost gloves.
The only items i should replace are the rings but i need rings that increase resists along with speed boost.

Like i said, pretty much all my gears are resistance oriented gears which mean if i remove one thing i drop by atleast 15 points in one of the element if not more.

I will have to find gears that have resistance + speed and damage bonuses. These kind of gears are runewords i beleive so hard to come by for a noob zon.

Fortitude, Enigma, CoH are uber body armors but they don't seem to have the speed boost that i need.

The Laying of Hands glove is a green set but if i remove my current glove i lose +2 Bow/crossbow skills

My amulet is a +25 all resist so hard to part of.

My boot is from Cow King, i forgot the name but it doesnt have speed boost either.

As for the Helm, i use a +30 all resist helmet. Are you suggesting i socket and Shael all my gears ?

 

[UnRegistred]

Okay speed is definitely your problem...the very fast attack speed that is displayed on Windforce is very misleading...in actual gameplay Windforce is one of the slowest bows ever. You're not the first one to be fooled by displayed attack speed, but it really has nothing to do with actual attack speed. One weird example is assasin claws...they're always very fast/fast when an assasin uses them but when other classes use them they are very slow.

Well ofcourse, if my paladin equip a WF he will shoot very slow.

But we're talking about the zon.. is there a speed skill on my zon i forgot to increase ?

Anyway, ill see how i can increase speed. and ill check the pit.

Thnk for the tips.

 

[BattleQueen]

Multishot is pretty useless without a good investment in Pierce. You can't mow down cows fast because your Pierce is low. Try a Buriza do Kyanon: it has a built in 100% Piercing. Slow as it seems, it probably hits more cows than your WF does using Multishot.

Btw, seems to me you could do with more reading on Amazon builds, weapon IAS, rune socketing etc. For example, Shael only adds IAS to weapons. In other equipment, it adds FHR.

 

[UnRegistred]

Multishot is pretty useless without a good investment in Pierce. You can't mow down cows fast because your Pierce is low. Try a Buriza do Kyanon: it has a built in 100% Piercing. Slow as it seems, it probably hits more cows than your WF does using Multishot.

Btw, seems to me you could do with more reading on Amazon builds, weapon IAS, rune socketing etc. For example, Shael only adds IAS to weapons. In other equipment, it adds FHR.

The problem when reading all the amazon builds is that you get too many conflicting builds.

Some guides suggested to put points into Magic Arrow, other guides tell you to max out Freezing.

I went through over 6 or 7 different builds and i really had enough.

The problem aren't only the builds but all the acronyms they use: idk, ist, IAS, FHR, Soz, CoH, GF, Bo, Mh, R2D2, C3Po etc..
I mean jesus, i'm a causual gamer too. I'm one of those who still don't even know what a Bo level 20 is.

The second problem is that many of the builds are showing twinked bowzons.
Zons that are leveled with already many good items in the stash.

As a noob zon with no item in your stash, you can't really build a zon around godly items you may never obtain.

With all the tips i just got in this thread i should be good to go.

Btw, i added a Shael to the WF and i can see the speed boost. However, my mana is dropping faster with strafe on 1 single creature than before. It doesn't make sense. Shooting faster shouldn't affect your mana drain should they ?.

Anyway, i'll try to find better % mana leech gears and see if it helps. But i think the mana leak is caused by missing shoots.

I went to the Pit and it is cool inded but a bit short... and its not an easy place. I died like 6 times and i wasn't getting killed in Hell cow

Zzz time

 

[adddm]

What does IAS mean?. Increased Attack Speed. This is the measure of how fast you attack with your bow.

9/3 and 13/3 what do they mean?. These are the attack speeds as determined by your bow's base speed and any IAS equipment worn. For Windforce, which is a base 10 speed bow, the speed breakpoints are:

11/3 = 11
12/3 = 22
11/3 = 35
10/3 = 56
9/3 = 89
9/2 = 120
8/2 = 147

The first set of numbers are the normal attack speed and the strafe speed. The numbers to the right of the equal sign is the amount os IAS to reach that breakpoint. If you search the forums, you will find much more details on these breakpoints. In your case if you've added a shael rune to the Windforce, you have +40% IAS from the bow and shael rune which puts you at the 11/3 level. If you add another +20 IAS, say from the Laying of Hands gloves, you'd reach the next speed breakpoint of 10/3 by being greater than 56 IAS. To reach the next speed breakpoint would require adding another +30 IAS which may not be feasible for you. However, remember that speed is critical to a Bowzon but don't add IAS gear unless the total gets you a breakpoint.

The gloves im using has +2 skills so i don't know how i can replace it with speed boost gloves. The Laying of Hands glove is a green set but if i remove my current glove i lose +2 Bow/crossbow skills. Changing to the Laying of Hands gloves is highly recommended. The loss of the +2 Bow Skills will be easily offset by the +20 IAS, the +50% Fire Resist and the whopping +350% bonus damage to demons these gloves give you. This might even let you remove some other Fire Resistance gear and replace with something else.

The only items i should replace are the rings but i need rings that increase resists along with speed boost. No rings give you a speed boost. If you can get one Ravenfrost ring, do so. There is NO better ring for a Bowzon in the game. The second ring can be whatever helps you the most, resists, mana or life leech, etc. If you need more mana leech beyond what the bow gives you, you may want to consider switching to a Tal Rasha set mask which gives you both life and mana leech plus +mana, +life and + all resists. Ravenfrost and Tals Mask are very cheap to trade for (a few P Gems at most). Another fairly cheap option is a Lionheart armor which will require a 3 open socket armor and Hel, Lum and Fal runes. This armor has +damage, +resists, +life and + to all stats (str, dex, vit, engy).

Are you suggesting i socket and Shael all my gears? No, only the bow. The only thing you can socket in the armor and helm to add IAS/speed is a +15% IAS jewel. Shael in armor and helm adds to Faster Hit Recovery not IAS. If you can get two of these jewels and can socket both your helm and armor, then you could add another +30% IAS which when added to the Laying of Hands gloves, would put you the next speed breakpoint of 9/3 (at 89 IAS). This would be good but is certainly not necessary and may not be your best option.

As to dying to much, like in the Pits, use your Mercenary and Valkyrie as shields. Also, don't forget to cast Decoy always ahead of you to draw initial attacks. Don't keep running ahead of your Merc and Valk. You can also Strafe before you move forward to see if you are hitting anything. If so, slowly move up as you strafe always letting your Merc, Valk and Decoy draw the attacks.

If you don't have uber gear, you can still do well in Hell difficulty if you're more patient and careful. Take your time!