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Rogue Merc inner sight question

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by testyfish, Aug 18, 2019.

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  1. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    I've got a fire/grizzly summoner going, and I despise burning a tp scroll to resurrect a Merc. To that end, I have switched to an A1 rogue, and now I am plagued by one question:

    How much of a DPS boost to my grizzly is the -def from inner sight? Seems like the bear misses fairly frequently, so if the miss chance goes from 30% to 10%, that is an almost 30% increase in applied DPS. (0.9/0.7)

    Second and related question: Does might stack additively or multiplicatively with the grizzly DPS bonus? The raise skeleton bonus?

    Thanks for your input, I'm trying to find justification for my desire to use the A1 Merc, as they are my favorites.
     
  2. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax Diabloii.Net Member

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    Here is a table showing the Inner Sight level for a Rogue hired in Normal difficulty:

    Code:
    Lvl      ISLvl
    1        0
    2        0
    3        1
    4        1
    5        1
    6        1
    7        2
    8        2
    9        2
    10       3
    11       3
    12       3
    13       4
    14       4
    15       4
    16       5
    17       5
    18       5
    19       6
    20       6
    21       6
    22       6
    23       7
    24       7
    25       7
    26       8
    27       8
    28       8
    29       9
    30       9
    31       9
    32       10
    33       10
    34       10
    35       11
    36       12
    37       12
    38       12
    39       12
    40       13
    41       13
    42       13
    43       14
    44       14
    45       14
    46       15
    47       15
    48       15
    49       16
    50       16
    51       16
    52       17
    53       17
    54       17
    55       17
    56       18
    57       18
    58       18
    59       19
    60       19
    61       19
    62       20
    63       20
    64       20
    65       21
    66       21
    67       22
    68       22
    69       22
    70       22
    71       23
    72       23
    73       23
    74       24
    75       24
    76       24
    77       25
    78       25
    79       25
    80       26
    81       26
    82       26
    83       27
    84       27
    85       27
    86       27
    87       28
    **       28
    89       28
    90       29
    91       29
    92       29
    93       30
    94       30
    95       30
    96       31
    97       31
    98       31
    


    From there you can add any plus skills her gear gives her and then work out the -def. Inner sight gets better and better at higher levels.
     
  3. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    Based on some quick math, it looks like the rogue Merc caps out on increasing the to-hit by 1.6 multiplicative.

    Might at levels attainable by a Merc add +200% dmg. Does this stack additively or multiplicatively with grizzly the skill? What about with HoW?
     
  4. zemaj

    zemaj Diabloii.Net Member

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    IIRC, the slvl of the summon and its synergies are the only factors that would be multiplicative, and that applies at the moment of casting (so using a buff-switch works). All aura +%ED would then be added together and applied.
     
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  5. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    So in the case of the grizzly, I've got the base damage of a Grizzly from skills only, say 1000 damage for the sake of math. Low level HoW gives +70% and high Merc might gives +200%. Final damage of 3700 vs 1700 without Might.

    So we're comparing:
    3700 damage - lower to-hit
    vs.
    1700 damage x1.6 to-hit multiplier or 2720 applied damage.

    So if be giving up about 26% damage or so from the grizzly to gain the benefits of not needing to rez them all the time. Not as bad as I thought.
     
  6. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax Diabloii.Net Member

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    Not sure where you're getting the part in bold from?
     
  7. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    The -def from inner sight. For mobs with around 1500 def, it increases to hit by a factor of 1.6. the higher the defence of the monster, the lower the bonus. Over 2000 defence, the bonus drops under 50%
     
  8. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax Diabloii.Net Member

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    The formula is: % Chance to hit = 100 * 2 * (alvl / (alvl+dlvl) ) * (AR / (AR+DR) )

    Therefore you can't apply it in the way you're doing.
     
  9. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    I can though. I used that formula to calculate to-hit for an 1800 AR grizzly for various defence levels before and after IS was cast. Optionally, IS gives a 93% to-hit (up from 57%) when monster defence equals 1400. When monster defence equals 2k, you go from 48% to 71% after using inner sight.

    That's a pretty standard range for monster defence in hell, which is where I got the 50-60% increase in applied DPS.
     
  10. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax Diabloii.Net Member

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    upload_2019-8-20_0-38-27.png

    Couple of issues with this:
    1. It might be the case for this one instance with your particular set of parameters but the way you've stated it is misleading.

    2. You haven't provided all the necessary parameters - your character's level, merc level & Grizzly skill level at point of summoning and skill point investment for synergies etc.

    3. Assuming we're discussing Hell difficulty here your figures are mismatched:
      If you're using the figure of IS @ level 30 to get -1615 Def, your Rogue would need to be either level 93 with no +skills or around level 80 with +4 skills. Assuming either of those are true, a 1 point Grizzly with just a single point in prerequisites and no plus skills would already have way more than 3,000 AR for a level 80 character and over 4,000 AR for a level 93 character!
      That alters the calculation significantly.

    4. The only way IS can boost your chance-to-hit by such a "factor" is if you have really crappy AR. The use of the term "factor" or "multiplier" with IS part of the equation is a bit misleading.
     
  11. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    Grizzly with +8 to skills and only one hard point in fire/spirit wolves has 1987 AR when maxed after a 9pt HoW is factored in. That's according to the druid pet calculator, which I had heard was reliable.

    http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/druid_pet_calculator.html

    I was assuming the exact situation I will find myself in when I'm level 83-85 or so, with a slvl 26 inner sight, which is only level 80. This is only -1255 def. I'm doing a fire/summon Druid, hence the lack of hard points in wolves.

    Level disparity is irrelevant to this particular discussion because it's a separate factor in the equation. If you're underleveled, it'll reduce both to hit values by the same multiple, leaving you with the same ratio between them.

    "Multiplier" or "factor" is exactly the right word to use in this instance. If you take the to-hit without inner sight, multiply by 1.5 or 1.6, you get the to-hit with inner sight.

    Unless you have a source for a Grizzly having 3k AR, I think my math holds up.
     
  12. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax Diabloii.Net Member

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    Make sure you select the 'Hell' option in the top form field...
     
  13. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    I kept playing around with the numbers and the pet calculator... And you're exactly right. The grizzly will have way more AR when level and difficulty are factored in. I had no idea that clvl and difficulty had that effect.

    Once you make the grizzly have the correct AR, you're looking at a 15% damage boost at best. Shame, I really would rather not run with Emilio.
     
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  14. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yeah the Grizzly's AR is calculated from:

    605+(20*slvl)+if(SSW.lvl >0, 25*SSW.lvl, 0)+MonLvl [2]

    Where MonLvl = Druid Character Level at time of summoning.
     
  15. testyfish

    testyfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    Glad to hear that the grizzly has better AR than that. I'd still like to point out that my math was right... Just started with the wrong AR for the grizzly. ;-)

    Seriously, thanks for pointing that out.
     
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  16. ioupainmax

    ioupainmax Diabloii.Net Member

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    By the way, that calculator is good but not perfect, I don't know of any alternative that's better though.
     

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