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Rogue amp dmg consistency, + vs. barb merc

Discussion in 'Druid' started by d2isnotanrpg, Mar 11, 2004.

  1. d2isnotanrpg

    d2isnotanrpg IncGamers Member

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    Rogue amp dmg consistency, + vs. barb merc

    Anyone out there, for physical dmg dealing druids (this includes wind), have a witchwild rogue merc? Or, perhaps, a "of amp dmg" bow using rogue merc?

    If so, does one find it more efficient than a high damage bow? Does the amp go off ENOUGH to warrant them using the probably lower damage bow than some others? 2% for WWS and 5% for rares doesn't seem like a lot. Obviously I'd shoot for the fastest breakpoint possible using this:

    http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

    I have been contemplating using WWS/rare vs Windforce (although I don't have a windy, I dream about a lot of equipment setups) for a fire rogue merc. I'm looking more for kind of "yea I have one and I find it great" comments, rather than theoretical ones, although I encourage those as well :thumbsup:

    My second question is also hugely opinion based. Anyone use barb mercs, and prefer them over rogues? Note, I'm not asking about barb vs act2, I've had a ton of those and I know they rock.

    Pro barb vs rogue:
    - More life
    - MUCH faster regen
    - hidden 70% resist poison in all difficulties
    - Can tank for me rather than the other way around
    - Can take advantage of eth items, bows cant be eth
    - Can also set off amp dmg
    - Can wear full sazabi's set for cool factor ^_^ although I'm not sure about efficiency (sword cant be eth => can get ridiculous rare eth sword dmg for mercs these days), I've heard its good but not the best.

    Pro rogue vs barb:
    - Ranged
    - Amp Dmg
    - Smarter and somewhat stays alive better
    - CANNOT die to iron maiden :)
    - Does fire/cold whereas barb does not add another element (remember, physical dmg builds)

    Any comments are appreciated.
     
  2. proudfoot

    proudfoot IncGamers Member

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    Well if you're on Ladder, upgrading WWS can make it very much better than it is now, in some cases making it better than Windforce, I've heard.

    However, if you are NL, I'm not entirely sure. 2% is one in 50 shots, and it doesn't last all that long, so it'll maybe trigger once every thirty seconds or once every minute or something. If that seems worthwhile, then go right ahead.
     
  3. whathappen

    whathappen IncGamers Member

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    I have a high-lvl assasin who uses a rogue. Precisely because I am also wondering how to deal with PIs for my WW, I gave her a witchwild and a 5% chances to cast AD. The results were very discouraging. With witchwild, it almost never casted AD, with the 5% bow, it was a few times but not frequent enough to make it viable.
     
  4. Pent

    Pent IncGamers Member

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    try reaching the fastest breakpoint fpa for the rogue using witchwind and see how that can improve amp regularity
     
  5. d2isnotanrpg

    d2isnotanrpg IncGamers Member

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    I agree, whathappen, what breakpoint did you reach with the rogue? With a WWS, I plan on reaching the 10 fpa breakpoint, or 2.5 aps (rogue merc). I suppose if nobody else has done it, I will try and post my findings.
     
  6. whathappen

    whathappen IncGamers Member

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    Umm... I have to confess that I didn't put anything on the 2 sockets. Plz tell us how it goes.

     
  7. Salo

    Salo IncGamers Member

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    rogues do not fire that fast, im not sure they are worth it for this purpose. 2 shaels in the bow would make it fly quick, but Amp damage is utilized by a zon via the following:

    level 20+ strafe
    massive multi.

    otherwise, it doesnt trigger often enough. it is good against act bosses though, as soon as it connects, bam the boss gets cut down in hell. this was on a cruel hydra with 2 shaels in it with 5% amp, havent checked this bow out in a long time, but it worked ok.

    if you are going for pops and buzzes, go for a act3 fire merc, they are dumb as poop at times and you can load them up with all special effect things like a medusa's gaze (tests shown that its not hard to get one of these on a act3 merc!), a delirium, armour, not sure what armour has effects on struck.
     
  8. d2isnotanrpg

    d2isnotanrpg IncGamers Member

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    To see the IAS breakpoints, go to the link in my first post. Enter "act 1 mercenary" for the first dropdown tab, and "Short Siege Bow" (WWS unupgraded) for weapon (English). Then click on the "Show IAS/FPA table" button and it'll list how much IAS is needed to reach the breakpoints.

    In the case of WWS, I'm shooting for 90 ias which will reach the 86 breakpoint, giving me 10 fpa. 2 shael bow + 20ias helm w/ 15ias jewel + 15 ias jewel in armor. The last breakpoint for rogue mercs is unfeasible IMO, even with a -10 bow, you'd need a dual socket rare with 5% CTC-AD, and even then it might not be enough (assuming we're trying to reach the last bp with an amp shooting rogue).

    I wish I had decent eth rare sword with ctc-AD, then I'd consider the barb more heavily.
     
  9. d2isnotanrpg

    d2isnotanrpg IncGamers Member

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    I'm not really going for pop's and buzzes. I'm going for effectiveness outside of an act2 mercenary. Amp damage is the premire effect I'm looking to get because no matter how effective my merc is, my effectiveness doubles once that goes off (more than compensating for the lack of dmg the merc was doing). But outside of amp, I still want an effective merc.

    WWS has ds%, great resists, and probably decent dmg if I get my hands on a near perf upgraded one.

    Rare swords with ctc-AD can get pretty good too, especially if eth.

    I'm not looking for facet effects and stuff to happen when the merc dies; I want it to die as little as possible. Delirium is a good idea if the merc was a barb merc, but I'd only do that if I can't get any decent rate for AD to go off. And for that, I might need the IAS on andy's visage, etc, not allowing me to use Delirium.

    I'm trying to investigate the ctc-AD and then if it turns out that's not feasible, I'll look into other setups for rogues and barbs (like wf, or gf/doom) and choose a good one that doesn't involve one of Greiz's soldiers.
     
  10. d2isnotanrpg

    d2isnotanrpg IncGamers Member

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    Bought a L68 hell rogue merc and put WWS on her.

    Tested her in the cold plains with 1.6 aps (no ias) instead of 2.5 (haven't yet gotten two shaels and two 15ias jewels - 1 for andy's visage and 1 for armor). COULDN'T infact because I don't have a L83 rogue merc for andy's visage (40 ias bow + 20 ias helm + 2x15ias jewels = 90ias = 2.5 attacks per second).

    All I can confirm so far is that whathappen was correct in that AD doesn't cast very often at all. Sure, she was attacking slow, but it went off twice after clearing almost all of the cold plains. Very discouraging :(

    On the other hand, she was doing pretty decent damage with an unupgraded WWS. Probably because the deadly strike went off the majority of her shots (78%@68). Also it's cool to see magic arrow and fire arrow instead of fire+normal. I wonder if it's worth it to give her a windy instead (shaeld wf + the equipment above = 2.2 aps), for the ultimate in damage. After I traded for a WWS too :(

    Also, tried a low damage spider bow with 5% ctc-AD. Overall dmg was lower because of no ds%, but the amp went off much more often. Not often enough to warrant using I think (like everyone here has been saying but I wanted to see for myself). Besides, I could upgrade a WWS, but finding an awesome rare bow with AD? That I can't do.

    Guess I'll try a barb merc next unless I gain enough wealth for a wf or one drops. I was hoping not to resort to a Greiz soldier with a reaper's toll, even though it's the best option; probably 70% of the high level players on bnet have one with one.

    On another note, its INCREDIBLY frustrating to level a rogue merc in normal diff. I have to resort to making new games repeatedly and letting her do all the kills, just to get from level 7 to 9. That by itself makes me not want to use one.
     

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