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Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by UnicronV, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. UnicronV

    UnicronV Diabloii.Net Member

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    *Originally posted to the one of the podcasts, I felt it would be better received here, especially because I can put the warning about the large amount of text involved.

    I’m going to title this post \Reverse Rose-Tinted Binoculars\

    I don’t have internet at my living quarters as I work at a resort, it should be coming soon, but as of this posting, I’m an unlucky soul.

    This gives me the reverse experience of almost everyone that plays D3, I’ve played to PL100, and am now relegated to Diablo II as my only source of Diablo hack-n-slash loot grind. (I’m sorry but it’s still better than TL2 which I tried).

    Here are a few short points to clarify how I feel D3 is an upgrade over D2.

    Stat/Spec Changes

    In Diablo 2 singleplayer (This is for me a simulation of Diablo without the Auction House), if I have not built my char right the first (or second with my 1 stat reset) time around in a difficulty, it makes that adventure so much longer. This is something that has been fixed for Diablo III by allowing you to change your spec throughout your play, adjusting for the gear you’ve found (or AH purchased), as well as what actually works.

    D3 Magnetic Shoes

    In Diablo 2, I have to click all the gold…. the time…. just my time… that is all.

    Loot Finder

    Talk about rose tinted glasses on this baby, my sorc finds plenty of Paladin loot and my Paladin finds plenty of Sorc loot, but in the singleplayer game I have no option to trade, so once again, I’m at the mercy of RNG or a grind to just out-level whatever I’m stuck on. I found my first playthrough of Diablo III to be much more enjoyable just from a gameplay aspect, and I was a DH. This was because even if I found items that didn’t flow with my build/class, I could find someone else who could use it (AH), and exchange that for gold, which I could exchange for items. This greatly advances play, and removes the need to begin grinding Andy (Who’s doing Leoric runs over and over for a few hours to find just the right loot to continue past Butcher?) 1hr into my game.


    Loot Overall

    I’m realizing now that the loot on average in Diablo 2 is quite, underwhelming. Yes I’ll admit, it’s cool to see those uniques/set items, but for the most part, they provide what amounts to be a little boost if the item isn’t one that normally has a socket, or I have to toss it because I’d rather get my MF on to find more rares.

    Uneven difficulty

    I think both games have this problem, but I’ve noticed it quite a bit in Diablo II. My Sorc can roll Baal all day(al). However when it comes to the Act 2/3/4 bosses (Duriel/Meph/Diablo) They seem to have just the right thing to knock me out for the count. It doesn’t seem to add up that something I encounter in Act 2 is so much more difficult than in Act 5.

    Unrealized potential

    Probably due to it’s age, Diablo II does not provide a lot of the statistic information that would make choosing weapons/armor to boost my overall performance available. slow weapons might be stronger than fast or vice versa, but I don’t have a way to see that other than going to whack stuff and see how quickly it dies.

    Assistance

    Finally, I’d like to mention that all the information you need to complete all tasks in Diablo III is readily available in-game. You can find out how to upgrade your gems, you can find out how to create new gear. In Diablo 2 that’s just not the case. There is no option to have explained that a perfect sapphire + amn rune + normal rare = superior rare, (an example of something that might be a recipe.) As someone who never played Diablo II much other than rushing through with multiplayer games, singleplayer leaves much to be desired as far as the basic information to accomplish simple goals. (Without previous knowledge, even upgrading gems could have been overlooked as an option in Diablo 2.)

    So that is just a taste of the reverse rose-tinted glasses I’ve recently acquired.

    So for Diablo III please add the following:

    • Automatic Gold Pick-Up
    • An option to obtain gear using gear that might not fit the class I’m currently playing.
    • Ability to change my spec, in case I’m not a Diablo Savant and don’t fancy re-making characters until I get better than terrible at it.
    • Provide critical information and assistance in tasks that could be of use to me (upgrading gems).
    • Item comparisons, to allow me to better understand gear and how it affects my play.
    • Loot that although it may not be the preferred color/rarity, actually has use to me as I level up.


    Oh, thank you for adding all of that on my list, and more.


    -Unicron
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2013
  2. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    Interesting counter intuitive narrative.

    Most of your points concern interface and UI and accessibility type things. And those are certainly valid; D2 did a pretty poor job on documentation and it got worse over the years as patches added features that were not explained anywhere in game. There are a ton of other little conveniences in D3 that are clearly improvements, like lore books playing even when you're not standing still to listen, and much of the world feels more real and active with so many more clickables and destructibles and walls that collapse from explosions beside then, etc.

    I think the real debate would center on the gameplay though, and that's hard to compare since most of the pro-D2 arguments are coming from our rose-tinted memories and are based on the best aspects of D2X after years of patching. In my memories, D3 is much better in most ways in the early and mid game where D2 was very slow and hard to get into playing untwinked. But D2's much deeper item system and generally higher difficulty (if only due to MSLE-type spikes) elevates it over D3 in the end game, even given how limited the runs runs runs style of D2's end game.

    D2C compared to D3C is almost apples to oranges, since just D2C vs. D2X is a huge change. I played a week of D2C just before D3's release (partially to fill time once the D3 beta ended) and found it kind of shocking. I took a bunch of notes but never got around to writing up a full comparison article. I'm not going to do that now, but consider a few of D2C's features: no weapon switch hotkey, unchangeable 640x480 resolution, no merc gear or resurrection, no corner map (just the ugly full screen overlay), no charms, no runes, no jewels, very limited item socketing, and an incredibly stupid and annoying 90 second countdown to game ending after you killed Diablo.
     
  3. SabreWolfy

    SabreWolfy Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    *Selects "Thread Tools", "Show Printable Version" and hits "Print"*
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2013
  4. ematanis

    ematanis Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    Not to disagree that D3 did some cool things to improve the game from auto pickup on gold and all the CASUAL information ingame and the resurrection and making trading easier.

    But in D2Exp which I played Hardcore at ladder reset right before D3 release and sometimes self found HC single player , has better ways to acquire gear and advance your character , ofcourse this all relies on you having all the information and experience before you play , but in D3 advancing is not easy in Inferno , the game is not fun at low paragon levels because you find almost nothing , you can't find magic find gear that will work for you in inferno and even if you find some magic find gear you can't sacrifice your stats for them and even then it won't help much.

    In D2 even with 50 magic find you could farm Mephisto for Uniques and it wasn't that hard to find your gear and advance , currently in D3 , you can't even dream about getting good enough gear to reach higher MPs than probably 5 , talking mp5 farming at slow pace , for fast pace it is impossible , you have to sell stuff on the AH and buy stuff off the AH , because ingame you can't farm gold fast enough to keep up with crafting and your Demonic Essence farming , you can't find legendaries fast enough to keep your Brimstone count higher than your demonic essence to craft necklaces , the game is simply not made for solo play and in Multiplayer play doesn't change much except that you can get alittle bit more gold to cover your repairs and crafting , to advance to higher MPs you gotta either farm endlessly and sell UnID items or you get super lucky with 1 drop that sells for billions and I have been playing since release and that hasn't happened to me yet ,or you simply have to flip the Auction House and I spent more time flipping in the AH than playing the actual game and that says something about how crappy the current state the game is in.

    I have faith that RoS will do something to revive the game and fix many of the current issues and then we can call D3 superior to D2 , for now , D2 kicks D3 *** easily and such comparison shouldn't even be viable to compare 2 games that are released 14 years apart from the same company , they should have learned from D2 and not try to say we don't need anything from Blizzard North we are better and that is why we will do things the way we think is better and show them how it is done , they failed and they didn't listen for almost a whole year.
     
  5. Fizoo

    Fizoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    I wish people would stop using that phrase. Rose-tinted. I hear it on every single gaming forum to describe attitudes towards the previous installment in a series. Using the term rose-tinted is a good way to cause internet flame wars between posters, because you are inviting people to talk not about the game, but about how smart / stupid fellow posters are for their views. Quit defining other people's views for them.

    Why can't you just say, "a lot of people liked D2 better" and leave it at that? Why go the extra step of trying to define people and their views?

    Its a lot like Jay Wilson's comment of "**** that Loser". People didn't like D3, they voiced their opinions about it, and Jay Wilson's response was to attack the people that offered criticism and try to define them. And he ultimately lost face and got taken off project for it.

    Wether you say "**** that Loser" or "that loser wears rose-tinted glasses and his opinion can't be trusted." Its the same thing. Just creates hostility.
     
  6. UnicronV

    UnicronV Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    @Fizon

    I think the term "Rose-tinted" Applies very well to a lot of the people who post all of the positive things D2X had over D3, at launch, and even now.

    The term essentially suggests that they're willing to overlook all the negatives that D2 had, to draw an apples to apples comparison.
    Very few posts say, "The item customization in D2X was extensive, much beyond what is available in D3... But you had no way of knowing what was truly the right item for you, unless you went to search the forums for that information because it wasn't provided."

    If people made the direct comparisons, instead of the "rose-tinted" kind, where they make it sound like whatever D2X had was purely better, and not include the negative, I think it gives those of us who realize that you can't have everything all the time a little bit of leeway in using the term "Rose-tinted".

    I've never played a perfect video game, but Diablo III lets me hack and slash quite a bit for some great loot. Right now D2 is doing the same. However, similarly to how people who play Diablo III look back and reminisce of the days they played D2X, I too am now reminiscing over the days I was able to play Diablo III and am now forced to squeeze out the last ounce of enjoyment from D2X.

    I can guarantee you, as soon as I have internet, Diablo II will be once again, a distant memory, and I'll be happier for it.

    Edited for grammar.... I used "a" instead of "an", don't wanna get flamed. :)
     
  7. Mortalo

    Mortalo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    Games Radar 75/100
    "If it wasn't a Blizzard title, Diablo II would be dismissed as the bimboesque bit of frippery it actually is, and gain no more than a passing interest from most folk. Be warned."

    I remember defending DII in old days and it didn't changed with DIII. It looks like that's a part of being Diablo game.
    What is great in D3 is possiblity of naming my char however I want. D3 has a lot of this small tweaks that nobody is noticing but makes the game experience better.
     
  8. Kregling

    Kregling Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    I can't add a lot of specific examples of why I like D3 more than D2, but I agree that I found D2 less accessible than D3. I was a casual player (I got each class up to around lvl 60 once and that's it). I didn't do a lot of online reading (other than occasionally referencing diabloii.net) and I didn't trade with others (I tend to be very SP focused). As a result, I got into a rut where I couldn't find better gear for my characters, which meant I couldn't do the things I wanted to do (fight ubers, beat Diablo on hell difficulty). And, with how Hell difficulty was structured, you kind of needed a party to get through some areas (darn immunities). Since I didn't have many friends playing D2, I couldn't really progress past some areas. As a result, I stopped playing when I couldn't make measurable progress. I enjoyed getting chars up to lvl 60, but everything after that felt like a grind to me (which it is in D3 too, but I just didn't feel like I was making measurable progress past that point). I can't claim that I played D2 the right way, but I just found D3 to be much easier to access and understand.

    With D3, as someone who still tends to play SP, I like the AH because it gives me an easy way to upgrade my gear, which lets me access all the content I want to. I never even imagined I'd have a chance against the ubers in D2, and I never would have with the way I played. So given my playstyle, I find D3 much better. I spent a lot of hours with D2, but I find myself still coming back to D3 and not wanting to boot up D2

    As far as the definition of rose-tinted, I also have to agree with UnicronV.. it's not that you can't like different things or that you can't like D2 more than D3, it's just that rose-tinted implies you're only remembering the good things. It'd be like bringing up D3 and only talking about the accessibility and ignoring the always online aspect or the loot issues (Not that there are any D3 comment threads where these issues aren't brought up). But give it 5-10 years and we'll see how many of us still think that the always online thing is a big deal or if we remember when loot 1.0 was awful.. or how annoying the companion comments are.. who knows? =)
     
  9. MerLock

    MerLock Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    I would have to disagree with this. It may take a lot of time but it's definitely not impossible. I would agree that a self found player may not be as fast/effective as someone who utilizes the AH but farming fast on MP5 is possible with self find. Also it's been done that self found players are able to farm as high as MP10 - again not as fast as AH players but still not out of the realm of possible.

    I agree that Loot 2.0 is much needed and I think the AH has changed the mindset of players that everything in this game can be done quickly. I've seen a lot of folks who use the AH get bored quickly in the game because there is no longer anything challenging for them. Once you buy your gear in the AH, you faceroll through the content and find the game lacking since you'll be hard pressed to find anything better than what you bought.

    I believe an RPG should take time. It should cost the player sometime in leveling and gearing your character but the AH takes that away. The flaw is that in D3, it can take a player a very long time before coming across an upgrade and I hope Loot 2.0 can bridge the gap between the frustration of trying to find an upgrade and the easy of jumping into the AH to purchase an upgrade.
     
  10. Sentarius

    Sentarius Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    Best point of them all, imo. I ran into the walls in every act in vanilla D2, if I was really starting from scratch and alone.

    "Runs" should be for loot to make your character better for fun or for endgame, not for mere progression in the early game. The only comparable difficulty wall in D3 was Act 2 inferno in the release build, and it was much much worse. But at least it wasn't on normal.
     
  11. Galtrovan

    Galtrovan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    Good thing D2 doesn't have D3's online-only BS then isn't it.



    This is what's good about D2 and bad about D3. Diablo is an ARPG. You are supposed to play, level up, build a character, take ownership. Not having character builds is asinine.



    Yes, not having to pickup gold is nice.



    Are you seriously comparing playing offline, single-player to online, multi-player and complaining you have no option to trade when playing offline, single-player? It seems to me you started this post with being thankful D2 could be played offline because you have no internet. What's more, what's the difference if you have to grind Andy in D2 to get started or have to grind Act4 Hell/Act1 Inferno in D3 to progress? While grinding for items is grinding for items, D2 does it better. There are bosses/champions to target and D2 does this early to prepare you for what's to come. D3 on the other hand, there are no loot pinatas and the game does nothing to prepare you for what's to come. D3 normal through Act 1 Hell is simple-stupid. You can play with whatever you find and then you hit a brick wall. Barring extreme luck, the loot you need to progress doesn't drop. You have to get it from the AH.

    What? If you think D2's loot is underwhelming, then what's your opinion of D3's loot? I would say most everyone agrees D3's loot and loot system is complete garbage, especially when compared to D2.



    Baal is easier than the Act 2/3/4 bosses in Normal because, unless you farmed, you don't have gear. In addition, you don't have access to your end-game skills. The introduction of skill synergies alleviated this a bit, but you still needed to have to some gear to be successful. However, D3 is worse. As I said above, Normal through Act 1 Hell is simple-stupid. And then there is the brick wall which you are most likely not going to get past without the use of the AH. You can, but the amount of hours required is ridiculous.


    D2's lying character screen left something to be desired. D3 certainly improved this area of the game.



    Yes, D2 certainly could have used "recipe scroll" drops for cube/rune-word recipes.

     
  12. TheDestructor

    TheDestructor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    Diablo 2: Grind a thousand hours for a equipment that gives +skills, crushing blow, FCR, or all res.

    Diablo 3: Grind a thousand hours for equipment that gives you, IAS, CC, CD, or all res.

    Conclusion: Diablo 3 is a disgrace.
     
  13. Greizer

    Greizer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    The difference is that in D2, based on your char and build you might need 75 or 200 fcr, 83 or 163 fhr, 40% or 80% ias... Granted that more +skills, crushing blow, deadly strike and weapon damage (for melee chars) was always better... But the challenge was in combining the available gear in ways that provided the optimal overall build. And there were a lot of viable combinations. For example the full Tal Rasha's set vs. unique item setup for magic find Sorcs question is still not conclusively settled after all these years.

    Now in D3 otoh you can simply stack all the 'leet' stats in all available slots and the only consideration is whether or not you can afford to have max stats in all slots. Movement speed is the only capped stat in D3 (afaik), and the strategy is immediately there: do I use Lacuni, Inna's or [item x that gives movement speed, can't remember them all]? Wicked wind and whirlwind have breakpoints and behold: there is build discussion based on items. There was a thread about breakpoints lately; D3 desperately needs them (and/or soft or hard caps for stats) in order to introduce the 'loot puzzle' that, you know, makes Diablo into what it's supposed to be. That and decent droprates...
     
  14. nurman

    nurman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    The same, extremely similar thing, yet considered different.

    This feels just like "creationists" and "people who believe world was created by aliens" arguing which is more real.
     
  15. mr punk

    mr punk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    strangely enough, the same could very well apply to the many players who drank the D3 kool-aid as i mentioned in my exchange with ShadoutMapes in another thread:
    you had players who praised and genuflected for a team which had accomplished nothing (those accomplishments were earned by a completely different team now long gone) and were blissfully ignorant of industry changes that had occured in the meantime. the delicious irony is those players are now desperately hoping "RoS will do what LoD did for D2C" after buying d3 on day one only to find out they dropped the soap. players who make these "red tinted" or "rose-colored" posts have their priorities screwed up. one would think they would spend more time being concerned about D3 ,RoS and not dropping the soap again rather than who is wearing "nostalgia goggles". but hey, maybe they like soap.
    hideki kamiya (the creator of devil may cry, bayonetta, resident evil 2, okami, viewtiful joe) of Platinum Games trolls and tells his fans to [email protected]#k off (in english too) when they annoy him. however, he can get away with it because unlike jay. he's generally considered a genius by his core audience and they love his games. it's not surprising one can get away with that to an extent as long as one has proven to be good at what they do. obviously, this doesn't apply to jay. lulz.

    "Enough of smash idiots. [email protected] off."

    https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/342659881695858689

    "IF U CAN'T READ THESE, GET THE F*CK OFF."
    REPEAT: AS I SAID 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 TIMES, IF YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT NEW DMC , TELL THAT TO CAPCOM, NOT ME.

    https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/239913087803748352
     
  16. Fizoo

    Fizoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.


    Is there ever a truly "classic" game in your mind? Is there ever a game where you can say "this game was truly outstanding in its genre."

    Let's take the genre of ARPGs. Is D2 worthy of high praise in your mind? Is it an all-time classic? Is it one of the best ARPGs ever? Is it the best ARPG ever? If not, what is the best ARPG ever made? What are your top 5 ARPGs?

    How do you rank D2? I'm curious...

    I think a lot of people will rank D2 as the best ARPG ever. But when you talk about "all the negatives D2 had", you make it sound like you didn't like D2 very much at all. Did you play it? How much did you play it?
     
  17. Speedster

    Speedster Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    I agree with you. Loved D2/LoD for many years, and it was a hell of a game in 2002 when I started, but D3 improves on many things that were wrong with D2. If you didn't somehow know where to find runewords and cube recipes, good luck getting anywhere in D2. They finally allowed stat resets at the end, but by that time I had lost interest anyway. Great concept, but limited by the technology of the time. Just moving items from character to character was a royal P.I.T.A.

    The original paper-and-pencil Dungeons and Dragons was an RPG. Neither D2 or D3 qualifies. There simply isn't the breadth of storyline to define a character's personality, history, unique skills, etc. That stuff took us DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS in D&D/AD&D. I remember characters that leveled up, built castles, commissioned custom magic items, raised an army, went on a mission to hell and then retired when we literally couldn't conceive any bigger and better scenarios.

    Sorry, but we're using "role playing" in a very loose sense when it comes to any of the online fantasy games.
     
  18. UnicronV

    UnicronV Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    I love D2, like I stated in my post, at home without any internet, D2 is my go-to for singleplayer hack-n-slash loot game.

    But, in the same way I love D3.

    I also love borderlands, and borderlands 2.

    You can be enthralled with a game, for all the great things it provides, but you can still see the negatives. I think it comes down to being realistic about who the people are that are creating these games, these people are just people like the ones who play the game, with the ability to actually turn it into a reality.

    I don't believe that Jay Wilson sat at the end of a 30 foot table and yelled down to the coders telling them to make legendaries that have effects on them at level 60 that couldn't kill things at level 40. There are reasons behind the design decisions, whether or not you like the reasons, that's up to you.

    I think the design philosophies have had to change from D2 to D3, because we have a wider player base, and more websites, podcasts, youtube djs, posting about the highlights and downfalls of the game.

    The fact is, you can't create a perfect product that everyone will all love at the same time, I'm sure there's some people out there that wish their car tires were trapezoidal.

    Play the game, extract all the enjoyment you can out of it, and the things you're not a fan of, voice your opinion and provide solutions to the problem. A lot of the posts you see just say, "I hate D3 because it ______...." With no explanation on how they'd fix it. I prefer the longer route, of providing solutions, and then continuing on the journey to find my own epic loot.
     
  19. blackoutchili

    blackoutchili Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    OP is totally right. The Ford Model-T from 1908 for also sucked, I mean, ok, it was the first car to be produced boradscale ever and was revolutionary for it's time but wtf it had no A/C and no navigation system. Clearly my Ford Focus from 2008 is better, it has all good things this noobish '1908 model doesn't have. Why didn't they include the good things in 1908 already? Idiots.

    Ford Focus > Ford Model T

    Diablo 3 > Diablo 2
     
  20. Disciple of Erebos

    Disciple of Erebos Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: WALL OF TEXT: Reverse rose-tinted glasses, I miss D3 because of D2.

    WARNING!! Wall of Text Incoming! TLDR at the end.

    I definitely believe that 'classic' games exist, but I define a 'classic' game as being one in which you recognize that the game has flaws, but that the game is so good that it moves beyond the flaws. In other words, even though the game is flawed, the flaws aren't enough to tarnish the experience of playing it.

    I also think that 'classic' games are defined by when you played them. For example, I would argue that one of the greatest 'classic' games of all time is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. At the time, one of the things that made it an instant-classic was that it was the same awesome Zelda experience as other Zeldas, such as Link to the Past (another classic), but the game was designed in 3 dimensions, rather than 2, so all of the experiences felt way more real and visceral than in previous games, and you could do lots of things in OOT than you could in previous Zeldas (such as Z-Targeting enemies and strafing, or aiming the bow with an odd angle to shoot an arrow through a flame and melt ice). The game still had flaws, such as being incredibly glitchy and having a fairly boring first few hours of the game (after the first dungeon, there's a lot of traveling and exposition with not much dungeon crawling and adventuring), but even though those flaws detracted from the experience, they did not detract enough to really make the game noticeably less fun.

    However, I re-played OOT a few years ago, and I was shocked at how much worse it seemed now than when I played it first. However, I still remember all of the incredible excitement I felt when I played it for the first time. As a result, I would argue that what defines a 'classic' game is more about one's experience at the time, rather than the overarching game experience. OOT is still a great game even now (just not as good as I remember it to be), but when I played it for the first time, it completely blew my mind. Because of this, I think that what makes a game 'classic' is that it provides an amazing experience at the time of its release, in a way that other games of the time cannot replicate, and that when you come back to it later, even if the experience is not as good as you remember it to be, that the game still hold up to your standard of what makes a great game.

    Putting this into a Diablo context, I would probably never have said that Diablo 2 was a 'classic' game. I had a great deal of fun playing it at the time, but I never really 'cracked' the game, in the way that other players did. Back then, my parents didn't allow me to play videogames online (I'm 21 now, but I was 12 when I first played D2), so I could only play single player. Frankly, the things that detracted most from my experience were the skills system (and the systems built into that system). I always found it really boring to only level late skills, and not play with early skills, so I usually used points on early skills to have a diverse skill list; however, then my skills would not be strong enough to take down bosses, and I would usually not make it through the beginning of Nightmare (let alone Hell). I also hated having to reroll my character, because the early levels were the most boring part of the game, since you had to hoard most of your skill points so that you could put them into later, better skills. Since I couldn't play online (and, in fact, didn't have internet on my computer, only on dad's in the family room), I couldn't download patches for D2, leaving me stuck playing 1.07, where skills didn't have synergies. Thus, I couldn't put points into early skills, cause I would gimp my build, but I couldn't wait to put points into later skills, cause I played only mage builds (Sorceress and Necromancer), and for Sorceress, if you hoard your skill points until lvl 18 or later, and you don't have friends to carry you through the early levels, then the game is extremely slow, boring, and not fun. Eventually, when I got internet, I quit D2 and got a mod called Median XL, developed by Brother Laz, which I still firmly feel is better than both D2 and D3 combined (I certainly played the mod for longer than I have played D2 and D3 combined).

    When I was done with the mod, I went back to D2 LoD once more, and played a Necromancer through Hell. I had a better grasp on the way to play, and since I had 1.13 I could stack up a good Skeleton Necromancer, but the game was just boring at the later levels. Once I got to Hell, my army of Skeletons and other minions (around 25 helpers, including my Mercenary) were so tanky that they never died; however, they did so little damage that it took them 10 minutes to kill boss packs (and Hell was full of boss packs). Because of that, I got bored of the character and quit before finishing Hell Act I, despite the fact that my character was probably strong enough to beat the game.

    I was also really unhappy with the item selection in D2, as when I played my necromancer, the only stat I really cared about was +skills, since my job was just to stand behind a wall of minions and debuff enemies with Amplify Damage, resummoning if necessary. I got all of my gear at the end of Normal Difficulty, and since I was only in the Summoning tree (with a single hard point into Amplify Damage), there were basically no late game items that were upgrades. I had a wand that gve +3 Summoning tree and +2 Summon Skeleton (bought from Act V merchant for 100k gold), +3 Summoning tree off-hand with +1 Skeletal Mage, various +2/+3 Summoning tree other items, and a green belt that made me immune to frozen/slow effects. I looked online, and none of the cool Unique weapons or armors would have been an upgrade for me; at best, they would have been a side-grade that upgraded the look from normal to gold, and at worst, they would have been worse than the gear I bought in Normal difficulty. That was one of the thing I was looking forward to in D3: using endgame gear that looked awesome and was definitively better than the gear I bought from merchants in Act V Normal.

    Finally, in terms of item drops, I found that a lot more Uniques and Sets dropped in D2 as opposed to D3, but most of them were garbage (much like Rares in D3). I can't remember how many times I got another Sigon's Shield or Isenhart's Case; I never found any of the really interesting or good Uniques in D2. Frankly, for all of the complaining that D3's drop rates are terrible, I've found more valuable legendaries in D3 than I ever found of Uniques in D2 (in D3 AH terms, my best D3 item sold for 40 Million, while my best D2 item would have sold for under 10 Million simply because it was a blue item, and you could keep rerolling the vendors until you found one from them). Overall, while I had a lot of fun playing D2, all of these flaws kept me from appreciating it as a really great, 'classic' game, and as a result I would not classify it as a 'classic' for that reason. However, I would be willing to accept that for many people, it was a 'classic' game, because many people remember it much more fondly than I do, and regardless of how I feel about it, it did popularize the ARPG genre.

    TLDR, A 'classic' game is one that provides a transcendent gaming experience when you first play it, and holds up later, even if it's not as good as you remember it to be. D2, for me, was not a 'classic', and never will be, but for many people it was, and at least for its popularity, I'm willing to acknowledge it as an important game because it popularized the ARPG genre.
     

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