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Revamping the oldschool PVP orb sosa~

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by GITO86, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. GITO86

    GITO86 IncGamers Member

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    Revamping the oldschool PVP orb sosa~

    okay so after going through many incarnations of 1.1 pvp cheeze sorcs (lit, fireball, meteor, etc) i finally decided i miss my old pvp orb sorc and its the sorc im best with. but made my old build garbage so i have a new, VERY unique build that im curious about. here it is:

    SKILLS
    20 in frozen orb
    20 in ice bolt
    20 in cold mastery
    20 in telekinesis
    rest in prereqs and warmth/eshield

    GEAR
    Wizzy socketed with 12dtm/2nd mod jewel
    2 sorc/20 fcr/other mods rare circlet (ber'ed)
    2 sorc/20 fcr/other mods amulet
    ITHed naj armor
    magefist
    -15/12 dtm stormshield
    2 sojs
    aldurs boots maybe? @@
    nightsmoke
    10 cold charms
    annihilus
    9x various life/mana/resist charms etc

    basically, its a pure orb sorc that can tank quite well. with this setup the sorc has a lvl 9 eshield, which absorbs 59%. with lvl 20 tk, only 75% of the 59% actually damages your mana, making it 44.25% affecting you. so lets say 1000 physical damage is actually dealt to you after dr etc. that means 442.5 mana would be lost from that attack. then, 41% (410 damage) would affect your life. k unless im missing something or im just plain stupid, that means it would take around 110 damage to mana (dtm) to make eshield take no mana and still absorb 59% of that attack. can someone please check my work or tell me if im missing some sort of limit or something? if im right, this could work out quite sexily :D. the sorc will also have lvl 38 cold skills, max resists, 110 fcr for the cast breakpoint, and 43% pdr. am i missing anything big or am i good to go?

    ill also take suggestions. also keep in mind that i dont believe in that "BEST DAMAGE = BEST BUILD" garbage i keep seeing from idiots in 1.1. i use skill instead of BIGGEST DAMAGE and a person with enough skill will always beat the big damage "duelers." so when u make suggestions keep in mind i MUST have 110 fcr, and a lotta mana (no eschutas/shako/enigma for me).
     
  2. Wuhan_Clan

    Wuhan_Clan IncGamers Member

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    Ok, i'm reworking your calculation

    1000 physical dmg is dealt (after pvp penalty) with lvl9 Eshield absorbing 59% of the dmg
    (only 75% of that 59% actually drains mana cus of lvl20 TK)

    dmg to life = 0.41*1000 = 410 life dmg
    dmg to mana = 0.59*0.75*1000 = 442.5 mana dmg

    422.5/410 *100% = 108% <--- if dtm works in this way, you would only need 108% dtm to fully regain lost mana

    Ok, so that worked out. Now here comes the tricky part.

    ES is applied before resistances are taken into account. ES is applied as if you had 0 resists. So although you might have 75% resists, ES is applied (and mana is drained accordingly) as if you had 0 resists, but the damage done to your life is only 25%.

    New example:

    1000 lightning damage with 75% resists (after pvp penalty)

    dmg to mana = 0.59*0.75*1000 = 442 mana dmg <--- (same as before)
    dmg to life = 0.41*0.25*1000 = 102.5 life dmg

    442/102.5 = 431% <----- not an achievable goal in terms of dtm


    One more complication: I don't know if ES works before dmg reduction as well since dmg reduction is basically physical damage resistance. If this is the same as elemental resists, having dmg red means you'll need even more dtm to counteract mana drain.

    So what to do?

    Ideally, if the sole purpose was to gain back all of the mana lost, you would NOT want to have incredibly high resists. This is because a small ammount dmg taken to life will require more dtm to counter mana drain. The problem is how much dmg can your life support. In theory, your settup can easily take care of mana drain. Since ES and dtm are all % calculations, you can always gain back all mana lost no matter how much dmg is being dealt. The only question is to come up with some realistic figures of dmg and see if your life and not mana, can sustain.
     
  3. GITO86

    GITO86 IncGamers Member

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    heh i forgot to mention how to deal with svs and the elemental damage bug with eshield. dont use eshield, kill sorc with skill. gg :D

    if you really look at it, pretty much all pubbie sorcs can be killed easily by a skilled orb sorc. as for the physical damage, i do think dr is taken into consideration before dtm and eshield.

    one question i have tho: what about magic damage? since magic resist is a stat that isnt displayed and is regularly at 0 in all difficulties, then eshield should work against magic damage the same way it does against physical damage correct? i think this alone would make maxing tk a worthy investment if it reduces guided arrow and bone skills damage with no mana drain.
     
  4. AndyChrono

    AndyChrono IncGamers Member

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    My sorc uses that exact build skill-wise.

    20 Frozen Orb
    20 Cold Mastery
    20 Ice Bolt
    20 Warmth
    Rest into TK and Staple Spells

    At level 99 I would have exactly 20 into TK making this a perfect build in terms of skill distribution. As for items, my ideal setup would be...

    Shako /w 5/5 Cold Facet
    35 Vipermagi /w 5/5 Cold Facet
    Arachnid Mesh
    Frostburns
    Rare Dual Boots /w Triple Resists
    Mara's
    2 Soj's

    Weapon Switch 1: 30% Death's Fathom /w a 5/5 Cold Facet & Moser's /w 2 5/5 Cold Facets

    Weapon Switch 2: Occulus /w 5/5 Cold Facet & Whistan's /w 5/5 Cold Facet

    Charms: 1 Annihilus, 10x Cold Skill Charms /w Life, 9x Life/Mana/Resist SC's

    At the moment I have everything except for the Cold Skill Charms /w Life...but I have enough of those off ladder so that once the season is over I can just x-fer those onto this sorc.

    For my base stats I have...

    Str: 35
    Dex: 175
    Vit: 175
    Eng: 200


    Basically, with perfectly ideal equipment I'd end up with:

    1400 life/mana
    Over 1200 Orb Damage and about -250 Cold Resist /w the Fathom Switch
    Max Resists in Hell /w either Switch
    Max Blocking /w the Whitstans Switch
    9 frame cast

    Basically, I use the Fathom switch most of the time when I need the damage, or when I'm dueling chars that have unblockable attacks. If I need the extra blocking then I'll switch over to occy/whistans to boost durability. Also, occy has that neat chance to teleport you away which helps a lot against certain classes with a lot of stunning attacks.

    IMO Stormshield is a waste of precious stat points. It requires too much strength to use, even with the -req jewel in it. To get max block with it also requires much more dex than a whitstan's would. In the end its a loss of about 150 stat points at least which translates to about 300 life. The most dangerous attacks in the game now usually aren't physical damage anyway, so the DR most of the time won't see any use.

    8 frame cast is ONLY an asset if your connection can handle it. Personally, I'm on 56k, so I just go with the 9 frame. I've tried both on my friend's broadband though, and I must say that unless your in a speed race, 8-frame doesn't have any real advantages over 9-frame. This is especially true in 1.10 because of the bug with timered spells. Try putting both Orb and Teleport on Right click. Hold down the right click and hotkey to teleport right after the orb is launched. You won't be able to teleport for a slight fraction of a second. This is ultimately going to be your worst enemy as an orb sorc, as it makes the old surround with orb trick much harder to pull off. Faster cast rate doesn't do anything to alleviate this.

    If your absolutely must have 8 frame though, I'd say just go wizzy, Vipermagi, arachmesh, and a good crafted amulet to get 110 FCR. This allows you to put on Frostburns for some extra mana. Not to mention you can dump the circlet to put on shako for some more life/mana. With Wiz and Viper, you'll have a large amount of resists already. Add in annihilus, Anya quests, and perhaps some from the amulet or good rare boots and you'll have max resists in hell easily.

    Now comes the part you won't like. DO NOT USE % DAMAGE GOES TO MANA. It does not work as well as it seems. I've made a sorc that went with almost every damage taken goes to mana item in the game and it does not work as well as it appears. Here's an example.

    1000 Physical Damage, 60% ES, 100% Damage to mana
    600 of it is absorbed by mana. With 20 TK, that's about 450 Mana Lost
    400 damage to life, and you gain back 400 mana also. So total mana loss is 50.

    Not too bad...but as your ES level goes up and you absorb more damage, you end up taking less damage to health. Consequently, you also will gain less mana back. So ultimately, with a low ES, damage to mana is great. But with a high ES, its next to useless. When I made my test character...with a level 1 ES and just a nightsmoke on, I NEVER lost mana from ES, even with only about 5 pts in TK. With Max ES, Max TK, and about 150 Damage to mana, I was getting my blue orb dropped in a few hits. Now consider elemental damage...

    1000 Elemental Damage, 75% Resist, 60% ES, 100% Damage to mana
    600 Damage absorbed (since it goes before resists). Like before, that's 450 mana lost.
    400 Damage to life...but reduced by the 75% Resist = 100 Damage to life.
    That means you gain back 100 mana. Total mana loss = 350.

    Magical damage is treated the same way as elemental, but since almost nothing has magic resist, it basically simplifies down to what happens for physical damage if you had no DR. I believe DR goes before ES, so high ES is excellent against physical attackers. However, I'll point out again that most of the dangerous attacks in the game are elemental which will ultimately result in massive mana loss.

    Instead of going for damage to mana items, I'd highly recommend just getting a lot of mana and a lot of warmth. One of the advantages of the Orb sorc is that its one of the VERY FEW dueling builds that can incorporate max warmth and not suffer any loss of damage.

    As a final note, I will say this. Your sorc build is generally fine for taking on the average pubbie dueler barring the common resist/absorb stacker. However, at the highest level of dueling, you will need to twink your sorc as much as possible and squeeze out all the damage/life/mana/etc. that you can. Also, high damage orb is the only way to get through the resist/absorb stackers in pubbies and even deal any damage at all to them.
     
  5. wangboBW

    wangboBW IncGamers Member

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    Hehe most of those pubbie duelers think all they need is dual ravenfrost and luna....they are so dumb....half of them has like 50 cold resist in hell. Most pubbie duelers suck, the few that actually worked hard to make their char will usually take their absorb off as long as your dueling him alone. Pubbies isn't as bad as most people makes it out to be. I might add that this build was suggested a while ago, it might not be you, but someone did suggest it. He geared it towards PvM, but pretty much in the same theory as your sorceress.
    But I would say max TK first, since you will need as little damage taken to mana as possible. Since mana really is important, and 1 elemental attack can drain it if powerful enough. I am thinking about making one of these sorcs, I know orb sorcs work b/c I have a Orb/F-Waller from 1.09. GL!!!!!
     
  6. Wuhan_Clan

    Wuhan_Clan IncGamers Member

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    Nah, the other thread you are talking about was proposed for player vs nothing. It was a sorc that would have a insanely high lvl ES and TK combined with insane mana regeneration. Let mana take as much dmg as possible and regerate mana as fast as possible. There was talk about letting a meditation pally help out. We didn't think about dtm then.

    In the end, what you have is a trade off between dmg to mana and dmg to life. In order for dtm to work effectively, you'll need crappy resists, which means you'll take a lot of dmg to life but at the same time heal all your lost mana. The other extreme is have lots of resists to reduce dmg to life but this means lots of mana drain.

    We're trying to have it both ways but its not possible. What we're proposing is since mana can be regerated very quickly, we should let mana take all the dmg. But mana gets drained WAY to fast and the only way to counter it fully is to use dtm. But in order for dtm to be effective, you need to increase dmg to life, which was what we were trying to prevent in the first place.

    Just chasing a pipe dream.
     
  7. Sorceress

    Sorceress IncGamers Member

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    hey GITO i have the exact same build as u just different equipments
    this build will kill everyone with some absorb or WITHOUT absorb
    but don't expect anyone to play fair cuz every pubby game ppl see me use orb they just start wearing full absorb 2 ravens and a luna and totally neglect all dmg
    i just hate those newbs...
    and ya the energy shield sucks vs fireball and lightning sentry and most high dmg elemental skills i sure hope blizzard will fix it (if it is a bug)

    thx for hearing me out maybe we should arrange a time so i can duel u?? lol
     

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