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Respec into higher vit for Big D as Bowazon?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Gynli, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Gynli

    Gynli Diabloii.Net Member

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    This question is regarding my multishot bowazon in the untwinked 99er challenge; and would like some help in making up my mind for the final respec. The more I run CS, the more I realize bowazons are not meant for higher /p settings, and especially not for picking out boss packs. So, I'm hoping to switch over to p1/7 or p3/7 runs ASAP; but Big D is difficult atm with only 800~ vit. I only have 1 respec left, so I want to hear some opinions about possible stat/gear setups before I make my decision.

    Thing to note:
    - No CtA.
    - p1/7 or p3/7 CS runs.
    - Though SC, let's pretend this is HC because deaths at higher lvl is too costly.
    - no Strafe to proc CB/Amp.
    - enough charms for either max dmg or life/resists. Don't have godly charms to have both at once. =P

    Current Gear Setup:
    Code:
    +2 ama/20 all res/30 frw Tiara
    Fortitude
    Razortail
    LoH
    War Travs
    
    Ravenfrost
    3 ml/3 ll/stats Blood ring
    Rare Ammy with random stats (Will use Cat's eye when it drops)
    
    Shadowbow Faith
    
    Merc Setup:
    Code:
    Reapers
    Stone
    Vamp Gaze
    
    First question: Do I focus on gearing myself or gearing merc for taking down Big D?

    I've been quite set on gearing myself with Fleshripper/SS to take down Big D for a while, but am now wondering if it's even worth it. Could the merc take down Big D on /p7 relatively fast with a different setup? If so, I wouldn't have to worry about higher vit and can focus on clearing CS as a glass cannon build. This would also let me keep Harmony on switch, and give Fana aura to merc.

    Assuming no, I definitely need higher vit for Big D. The question is then, how much?

    I'm debating between 75% block (222 dex, 200+ vit) and 50% block (153 dex, 300+ vit). With the option to pump Dodge to 50%, though, I'm leaning towards 50% block with higher Vit.

    So while playing with the above numbers I couldn't help but wonder, how much damage output would I be losing with the lower dex setup? With so much bonus %ed from gear and aura (300%ed from Fort, 350%ed to Demons from LoH, 237% from lvl12 Fana, 260%ed from Might), my initial take is that losing 150~250 dex wouldn't mean THAT much. Could someone provide me with the actual math for damage calculation? It'd be very so much appreciated. =P

    Any other suggestions are also welcome. :D
     
  2. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I think 800-900 life are enough if your resists are maxed and if you have a knockback source, like a Giant Skull. I'm not sure if it's just applied to the middle two arrows, but even then, I think it's worth having. I can understand that you want to use that amazon tiara (what's it socketed with BTW?), but I think it would be more useful on a javelin or spear build.

    D is actually an easy target. Even I, with my bad reflexes and a tendency to become confused in surprise situations, have little problems with him. The only threat comes from his bone prison. I suggest to use GA while running around him in circles. 3 shots, run, 3 shots, run etc. You don't have to have concerns about not having strafe because it would be bad versus D, as you cannot interrupt it and then he would roast you with his breath or firestorm. I would invest a bit into GA because apart from more %ed, it also reduces mana costs and it sucks a bit to use more than one mana potion versus him.

    Don't worry much about your merc. He will probably die on most confrontations with D or from running into doom while being amped or decrepped by the OKs. You can probably get along without him all the time and apart from your valk and decoy, Faith will produce enough distractions. You don't really need his might aura, as Faith, Fortitude, dex and GA will provide enough off-weapon %ed.

    I don't quite understand your considerations about blocking... or is it about a bow/javelin hybrid? Whatever, enough vit for let's say 900 life and the rest can go into dex.
     
  3. Gynli

    Gynli Diabloii.Net Member

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    @krischan

    The blocking was for a fleshripper/ss setup on switch. The main reason i was considering such a setup was solely for taking down D on p7 as fast and safe as possible. I was hoping that the setup would let me clear CS as a bow on p1~3 with enough damage despite low dex and take on Big D face to face as a daggerzon.

    I know i want CB from either myself or the merc to speed up the kill, but merc isnt sturdy enough to have reliable runs - or can he be? - and its currently too dangerous for me to go up in his face with only 800 hp.

    Im wondering if the damage reduction, block chance, dodge chance, slow target and extra hp would let me reliably and safely apply CB; and if all that is worth the trouble.

    The kb is only applied to the middle two arrows for the multishot, and while useful i dont feel the need - i rarely ever hit anything with middle arrows lol. Then again, i agree id be using giant skull if i had one just for the extra sockets.

    The tiara doesnt have a socket yet, and i want to save the larzuk quest for smth else. I put aside some PSkulls incase i ever find a SoJ for the socket recipe though lol. Heres hoping. :D

    In terms of your GA suggestion, what would the merc setup look like? Would i be the main damage dealer? Or, would merc do most of the work with crushing blow with guilliams and me just cleaning up the kill with GA?

    Edit. Forgot to thank you. Your input is much appreciated! =O

    EDIT2. Deleted my question. Found some answers in the Mat/Pat thread.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  4. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    The safe way to kill D is running around him in circles while shooting GAs, so I don't think that melee gear in the switch is useful.

    CB isn't worth having on a missile build IMO because CB damage is halved for them. It's 5% life per hit for bosses IIRC. You would need something like 100% CB for a significant effect. My zons aren't using CB boots like Goreriders or Goblin Toe, but Aldur's or Natalya's or one of those 1% rares that are better than the two.

    DR only comes into play when suffering physical damage and I don't think it will be that useful. Nobody will come into melee range and there are no missile shooters in the CS. Only D deals half physical with his breath, but you can almost always evade it. Not through the evade skill, but by running sidewards when he's breathing.

    The merc setup is OK as it is, although Repaer's decrep will spoil ctc Amp from Atma's Scarab. I would prefer Amp to decrep. Anyway, the merc would get himself killed all too often in the CS. He's useful in the Pits, however. I would perhaps exchange Stone for Treachery for more speed and (through fade) resists and DR, as well as Vamp for Guillaume's. Reaper's offers enough life leech and CB is pretty useful on an act 2 merc because he's using jab which deals a quick series of three attacks.

    There's nothing wrong with having more vit and less dex than I suggested.

    Well, my suggestions may turn your bowazon too much into mine and perhaps that's not your way of playing them :)
     
  5. Gynli

    Gynli Diabloii.Net Member

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    @krischan

    Hmm. That's disappointing. I'll try out the Treachery/Guilliaume's when I find another Guillaume's; but I guess my only option is to let the merc do the work. :( I'll try out the Fleshripper/SS combo though when I find one, see how it compares. Oh and I meant the CB would be from the Fleshripper, so it'll be melee without the ranged reduction.

    @all

    As for the damage calculation, could someone look at the math below and see if my calculations are correct?
    damage @ 350dex
    Weapon damage * (off weapon damage)
    = WeapDmg * (300%ed from fort + 350%ed from LoH + 237%ed from Fana + 260%ed from Might + 350%ed from 350dex)
    = WD * 1147%ed(1497%ed against demons)

    damage @ 150dex
    = WD * 947%ed(1297%ed against demons)

    Damage loss
    (damage @350dex - [email protected])/[email protected]
    = (WD * 200%ed)/( WD * 1147%ed) OR (200/1497 against demons)
    = 17.43%(13.36%) damage loss?

    Mob that used to take 5~10 hits to kill @350dex
    5/(1-0.1743) = 6.06
    Will take 6~12 hits to kill @150dex?

    EDIT: I just did a run of /p3 CS, and I noticed I fire in sets of 10~20 volleys for each group of mobs. So it's more like 12~24 shots for what used to 10~20. Which is like extra second per group... Hmmm...
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  6. drmalawi

    drmalawi Diabloii.Net Member

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    1147% ED means you multiply weapon damage with 12,47 and 947% ED is a WD multiplier of 10,47.

    Remember that you must always add the WD. 100% ED (from off-weapon source) means that you deal 200% WD, 200% ED (from off-weapon source) means that you deal 300% WD, and so on.

    So you deal 19,1% more damage with 350 dex compared to 150 dex

    with LoH bonus ED to demons you would compare dmg multiplier 15,97 (350 dex) with 13,97 (150 dex) which results in that 350 dex gives 14,3% more damage to demons compared to 150 dex
     
  7. Gynli

    Gynli Diabloii.Net Member

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    @drmalawi oh yeee

    so damage = WD * (1 + 1147%ed).
    Then damage loss from 350 to 150 dex will be...
    200%ed / 1247%ed(1597%ed vs demons) = 16%(12.52% vs demons).

    EDIT: Or 350dex will do 19% more dmg than 150dex; like you pointed out. /EDIT

    Just a bit tiny less than my original calculation.

    I'm very tempted to respec and try out 150 dex with unspent vit points, just to see how much slower it really is... I'll refrain from doing that though, at least until lvl 98 when the extra dex is not worth the risk of dying; or just until I find a Fleshripper and it turns out to be awesome at taking down D.

    Thanks for pointing that out! =D
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  8. drmalawi

    drmalawi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yes you can do 1- 1/1.19 = 0.16

    percentage increase and decrease are not "symmetrical" :p
     
  9. Gynli

    Gynli Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yup. lol Just redid the math to make sure I did it right. Whether I have to add the 19% or minus the 19% always confuses me though =P.
     
  10. drmalawi

    drmalawi Diabloii.Net Member

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    I often trick my students with questions like this "If a pair of jeans 100 USD gets its price increased by 20% and then there is a 20% sale, how much will the jeans cost at the sale?" They all answer 100 USD xD
     

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