respec for GF whirl barb?

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
respec for GF whirl barb?

I leveled a singer to 79 the hard way. No MP (as I recall) and no multi-instance help. So, now I have a decent gf singer.

1st question: Will a dual wield (swords) whirler for gf be decently efficient and fun? (I know it's a nebulous question.)

Now some background info:

I'm thinking of respecing the singer to a whirl barb. After making the singer, I made/acquired a few decent weapons:

Code:
Oath 
Cryptic Sword 
ShaelPulMalLum 
One Hand Damage: 33 - 550 
Durability: 23 of 23 
Required Level: 61 
Required Strength: 89 
Required Dexterity: 99 
Fingerprint: 0x1709b73 
Item Level: 87 
Version: Expansion 
30% Chance to cast level 20 Bone Spirit on striking 
Indestructible 
+50% Increased Attack Speed 
379% Enhanced Damage 
+75% Damage to Demons 
+100 to Attack Rating against Demons 
Prevent Monster Heal 
+10 to Energy 
+11 Magic Absorb 
Level 17 Iron Golem (14/14 Charges) 
Level 16 Heart of Wolverine (20/20 Charges)
Ethereal 
4 Sockets (4 used) 
Socketed: Shael Rune 
Socketed: Pul Rune 
Socketed: Mal Rune 
Socketed: Lum Rune

Cloud's Oath 
Superior Balrog Blade 
ShaelPulMalLum 
One Hand Damage: 87 - 446 
Two Hand Damage: 327 - 706 
Indestructible 
Required Level: 53 
Required Strength: 175 
Required Dexterity: 77 
Fingerprint: 0x21fca012 
Item Level: 99 
Version: Expansion 
30% Chance to cast level 20 Bone Spirit on striking 
Indestructible 
+50% Increased Attack Speed 
299% Enhanced Damage 
+3 to Attack Rating 
+75% Damage to Demons 
+100 to Attack Rating against Demons 
Prevent Monster Heal 
+10 to Energy 
+11 Magic Absorb 
Level 17 Iron Golem (12/14 Charges) 
Level 16 Heart of Wolverine (17/20 Charges)
Ethereal 
4 Sockets (4 used) 
Socketed: Shael Rune 
Socketed: Pul Rune 
Socketed: Mal Rune 
Socketed: Lum Rune

Death 
Colossus Blade 
HelElVexOrtGul 
One Hand Damage: 195 - 513 
Two Hand Damage: 460 - 909 
Durability: 26 of 26 
Required Level: 63 
Required Strength: 144 
Required Dexterity: 80 
Fingerprint: 0x77a72a83 
Item Level: 87 
Version: Expansion 
100% Chance to cast level 44 Chain Lightning when you Die 
25% Chance to cast level 18 Glacial Spike on attack 
Indestructible 
429% Enhanced Damage 
20% Bonus to Attack Rating 
+50 to Attack Rating 
Adds 1 - 50 Lightning Damage 
7% Mana stolen per hit 
50% Chance of Crushing Blow 
37% Deadly Strike (Based on Character Level) 
+1 to Light Radius 
Level 22 Blood Golem (15/15 Charges) 
Requirements -20%
Ethereal 
5 Sockets (5 used) 
Socketed: Hel Rune 
Socketed: El Rune 
Socketed: Vex Rune 
Socketed: Ort Rune 
Socketed: Gul Rune
I also have an eth Oath scourge (not 1.07) and a Stormlash, but I think the damage output on the swords is much higher.

Among the swords, it looks like Oath/Oath hits 2fpa and Oath/Death hits 3fpa, but the Death damage (and 50% CB!) seems like it might make up for it. 2nd question: in your collective experience, which will be better (for gold/rune finding in trav)? Of course, Glacial Spike can shattered corpses.

I also have some other nice melee items, like Fort, Duress, Highlord's, String, Dungo's, Gores, Arreat's, and others.

The only trouble I'm having is that I can only respec this character once, and he has an awesome GF name: Cortez*, so I'd really rather do it right the first time. Opinions?

* Of course, I can always delete him and remake. It's not that hard to level a whirl barb.

On a related note, I've thought of respecing my meteorb and executress and swapping their skills. In effect, I gain a level 90 enchantress (and I was thinking of making her an enchantLess heavily invested in energy shield instead of Forb) and a level 80 meteorb (which isn't too hard to level up). The gain is that I don't have to level my executress. 3rd question: is there an SP forum consensus on how cheesy this is?

I'm reluctant to do such things only because I often choose fitting names for my characters: Clytemnestra for an axe enchantress, Cortez for a gf barb.
 

maareek

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

On the subject of "Death:" I know sirpoopsalot preferred Death in the off-hand for his sword/sword GFer char (Grief PB main hand), and I found Grief BA/Death BA to be the best setup I had available for mine, so I imagine Oath/Death will work just fine. Glacial Spike won't proc with WW, so that's not an issue.

Most of the most efficient runners in the Piles of Money "Tourney" were weapon/weapon whirlers, so I wouldn't see why it wouldn't be a good choice for you. I know GibCouncilGrief was very strong Gold runner for me, using Grief/Death Cleaver and then later Grief/Death. Swords seem to be a little weaker overall, but should still do absolutely fine.

As for whether it'll be fun: obviously that depends. Running the Council with Gib was one of my favorite things I ever did in D2, but some people hate it.
 
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SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

On the subject of "Death:" I know sirpoopsalot preferred Death in the off-hand for his sword/sword GFer char (Grief PB main hand), and I found Grief BA/Death BA to be the best setup I had available for mine, so I imagine Oath/Death will work just fine.
Great. I guess sirpoops decided that the extra damage was worth the slower speed. Does a death BA have a slowish speed? Was that something that was overcome by the bonus damage, for you?

Glacial Spike won't proc with WW, so that's not an issue.
Oh yeah...why do I always forget that?

As for whether it'll be fun: obviously that depends. Running the Council with Gib was one of my favorite things I ever did in D2, but some people hate it.
I also have a gf necro who has a very nice Dur2 map. He can plow through Trav and Dur2/3 in about the same time that my singer can get through trav, so the singer is a bit redundant. The necro is fairly fun though.

I'm hoping to improve on a singer barb, which is a bit boring (just spamming warcries). It was a....unique experience to level him, but now the novelty has worn off.


 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

I would suggest that you run the council for runes with some GF, not go 100% GF. Optimise for killing and, as you look for runes, you will get all the gold that you need.
 

Hammy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

I ran Council with a single Death Colossus Sword to good results. The CB and DS absolutely rip them apart. Keep in mind that slow weapons only decline after frame 8, so with a point in Increased Speed, FRW boots, and a source of CBF, you can keep you WWs short and not notice much difference between a fast and slow weapon.

And maxicek is right... Rune drops are better than gold drops. Whirlers can't carry a ton of GF without neutering their speed. With a pair of 'LemLem' Ali Babas on switch and a Gheed's in your inventory, the gold horks are still pretty impressive at P3.

In my opinion, the respec thing is a little cheesy. I try to only use it to optimize or fix mistakes, not change from one build to another for the purposes of faster leveling. That being said, you can always farm essences for more respecs if you need them, and you can always change your characters' names via ATMA.
 

Crazy Runner Guy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

Definately go weapon/weapon. Great fun to whirl through those council.



871,004 gold - one run.
 

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Now I'm off to respec my barb and try out the Oath/Death.

I ran Council with a single Death Colossus Sword to good results.
Oh, so it was held 2-handed? Interesting. I'll have to try that as well, I guess.

In my opinion, the respec thing is a little cheesy. I try to only use it to optimize or fix mistakes, not change from one build to another for the purposes of faster leveling. That being said, you can always farm essences for more respecs if you need them, and you can always change your characters' names via ATMA.
Yeah, I'm probably not going to swap characters. It's too cheesy.

I will fix a few things, like changing my max block meteorb to max vita.


 

Fabian

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

I say go all-out on gold and join the Piles of Money Tourney :) Reading this made me curious to see what kinds of numbers I can get nowadays, with better equipment. After the MFO I'll respec and reequip one of my barbs and give it a shot :)
 

Hammy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

Oh, so it was held 2-handed? Interesting. I'll have to try that as well, I guess.
On-weapon mods like DS and CB only function for that particular weapon. So you aren't gaining any benefit to your Oath from the juicy stats on Death. With the CB it isn't such a big thing since that will be the same whether you use the Death one or two-handed, but the difference with the DS is massive, being essentially double the damage.

I'm a bit of a minority on this thinking though, most (sane) people don't consider using a weapon for WW unless it hits the last breakpoint.

For one and two-handed Swords and any other one-handed weapon, the breakpoints are:

-34 = 4 FPA
-10 = 6 FPA
10 = 8 FPA

So, the fastest you can get with a Death is going to be half the speed of an Oath. In my opinion, it really seemed like the DS and CB on Death made up for the slower breakpoint, considering your first two hits are "free". I ran at P1 though, not P3, since CB doesn't scale with monster health, being effectively halved at P3.

My Death experience was somewhat limited though, since I got the second Cham I needed relatively quickly and shelved it for my BotD War Pike.


Good luck!


 

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

I say go all-out on gold and join the Piles of Money Tourney :) Reading this made me curious to see what kinds of numbers I can get nowadays, with better equipment. After the MFO I'll respec and reequip one of my barbs and give it a shot :)
I'm listed in the table there, but you'll notice that I never posted any runs. I never really felt like running for 30 minutes solid, and the high scores are so good.... Zerth has already shown that a singer does very well with good gear.

For now, I'm more interested in runes, so I think I'll stick with runes for a while. Though, I might try regearing for gf and running on p1 instead of p3.

I've probably only gambled ~50mil gold, but I've had my fill of it for a while.

For one and two-handed Swords and any other one-handed weapon, the breakpoints are:

-34 = 4 FPA
-10 = 6 FPA
10 = 8 FPA
On average, the damage outputs are probably similar, though I'm not too interested in working it out precisely.

So, the fastest you can get with a Death is going to be half the speed of an Oath. In my opinion, it really seemed like the DS and CB on Death made up for the slower breakpoint, considering your first two hits are "free". I ran at P1 though, not P3, since CB doesn't scale with monster health, being effectively halved at P3.
I'm running at p3 (with Oath/Death), and it's been pretty easy. In about 15 runs, the merc died a few times, and I had to retreat one of those times. I'm considering even running on p5 (with Oath/Death). But, I'll give the 2-handed Death a try.

Good luck!
Thanks!


 

TemplarRoadkill

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

Gimmie out some pointers.. i mean before i started to run LK (past 6k mark now and a forty-infinity-enigma richer ;) ) i tried many setups with a dual Balrog Oaths and i think im missin someting as i cant get Ar past to 4.5k.. i havent used many charm spots thou.. i got

Arreats
Fortitude AP
String of ears
Dwarf Star
120AR/6ML Rare ring
Gore riders

had on merc:
Tal helm
guardian angel
Obedience

Could update to:
eAndy
Lionheart
Reaper

Anyway seems i cant hit the poor councillers enough to leach decently..

what kind of Str/dex/vit you are using?

Btw my barb is 79, too low to run? hes a wimp anyway and had truoble even to kill diablo hehe :)
 

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

Gimmie out some pointers.. i mean before i started to run LK (past 6k mark now and a forty-infinity-enigma richer ;) ) i tried many setups with a dual Balrog Oaths and i think im missin someting as i cant get Ar past to 4.5k.. i havent used many charm spots thou.. i got

Arreats
Fortitude AP
String of ears
Dwarf Star
120AR/6ML Rare ring
Gore riders

had on merc:
Tal helm
guardian angel
Obedience

Could update to:
eAndy
Lionheart
Reaper

Anyway seems i cant hit the poor councillers enough to leach decently..

what kind of Str/dex/vit you are using?

Btw my barb is 79, too low to run? hes a wimp anyway and had truoble even to kill diablo hehe :)
Cortez was level 79 when I respecced him to a whirler. He now has

naked/gear
str 109/142
dex 61/89
vit 307/345

he has enough dex for his cyptic sword oath if he gets 10 dex from somewhere else (eg Wealth).

I've done a few runs with just the Death Colossus Blade in 2 hands, and it seems to work just about as well as Oath/Death. Not much difference, really, though that's just my impression, not anything carefully measured. Well, Death alone is a bit better against mana burners due to the mana leech.

Gear:

Code:
arreat's (shael)
fort AP
Verdungo's Hearty Cord
rare ring:+113 to Attack Rating, 6% Life stolen per hit, +9 to Strength, +36 to Life, Lightning Resist +20%
metalgrid
gorerider
laying of hands
lemlem Ali Baba x2

ravenfrost + Oath 1.07 eth Cryptic Sword / Death 1.07 eth Colossus Blade
OR
dwarf star + Death 1.07 eth Colossus Blade

grand charms: gheed's, sharp/vita, sharp/sust, sharp/greed, steel/dex
small charms: amber/vita, amber/vita, amber/dex, steel/str, steel/str

merc: reaper, kira's, eth guardian angel.
I tried different armor on the merc, but the guardian angel keeps him alive pretty well as a lot of the damage he takes is fire from the hydras.

His AR is around 6.5k, but before he used the metalgrid, he used a demon limb to prebuff, which took his AR over 8k.

At level 79, I had him running Trav on /p3. He's now level 82 after a couple dozen runs (and a forge collection).

What gloves and amulet are you using? Dracul's Grasp might help you leech if you're not going to use Reaper's on the merc.

Here are your AR options (as I see it, of course) in no particular order:
1) prebuff with demon limb
2) get AR from charms
3) Angelic Ring + Angelic Amulet for huge AR

Heck, you could even go with a combination of the two. Remember that since level is involved in the to-hit calculation, you'll hit more often as you gain a few more levels.

Dual Oath should be fine, though Death has some very nice mods (50% CB and 40+% DS after level 80).


 

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

Okay, so i've done another 50-60 (more? I'm not counting) runs using the Death CB. I like it. One of the main benefits is that when I have to use Berserk on Ismail, I swing the Death since that's all he's holding; when dual wielding, he swung the Oath, which, while faster, doesn't do nearly as much damage as the Death CB held in two hands. PI Ismail goes down in about 4 satisfying thwacks (/p3).

Here's his current gear:

Arreat's (shael)
Fort
Death CB
Laying of Hands
Verdungo's Hearty Cord
Gorerider
Metalgrid
rare ring:
Plague Circle
Ring
Required Level: 60
Fingerprint: 0xb6e39a8e
Item Level: 86
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+113 to Attack Rating
6% Life stolen per hit
+9 to Strength
+36 to Life
Lightning Resist +20%
Dwarf Star

From charms: +26 max, 652 AR, 185 life, 6 dex, 4 str, 22 light res, 10% fhr.

Merc: reaper's, kira's, Guardian Angel (with ort)

I plan on replacing that ort with a Ruby Jewel of Wrath for more Fire res so he'll die less quickly under Conviction. I have other ruby jewels, some with life, so maybe I'll also socket his Kira's?

I've been thinking about ways to boost AR even higher (it's about 8k right now, no enchant). I used to use enchant, but that kind of eats up time. I'm thinking of trying it again, but I'm also considering swapping some items around.

I'm think of putting an Argent Jewel of Carnage in the Arreat's Face. Right now he has 70% fhr, so dropping 20% will leave him at 50%, so he keeps the same bp. But, I've been thinking of swapping in a String of Ears, which doesn't have fhr, in which case I'd need to find some fhr somewhere else. Right now, he has extra fhr, so swapping out the verdungo's is fine. I'm not sure if this is a worthy use of a pretty nice jewel. I don't know if it'll really help that much. If I have to get more FHR, then it'll probably have to come from charms, which means taking out a sharp/life or a steel/life GC or some steel/str or steel/dex scs.

I've also considered something a little unexpected. Here's the Nokozan Relic (the unique ammy we hate to see):

Nokozan Relic
Amulet
Required Level: 10
Fingerprint: 0xef798c6
Item Level: 49
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
Adds 3 - 6 Fire Damage
+10% to Maximum Fire Resist
Fire Resist +50%
+3 to Light Radius

Hmmmm, increased max fire res AND 20% fhr. If I boosted my max fire res, I could easily ditch the Dwarf Star in favor of something with more offense. But, I lose a big chunk of AR (438) and a chunk of resists (28). Well, I have 6 skill points saved up; I could dump those in Natural Resist (currently at one point), and I could work it so that I really only "lose" about 200 AR. Swapping the Jewel, the Amulet, the Belt, and the Ring would net me 11 max damage, 7% life leech (not too needed though since I already have 12%), overstacked Fire res (to guard against Conviction a little better), and whatever else I can get on the new ring. It does cost me ~200 AR, which I think *might* be okay since he has almost 8k right now with ~80% chance to hit on the LCS (he's level 86 btw). It costs me some fire absorb, which may be about equivalent to the raised max and overstack I gain.

Anyway, ideas on this?

Edit: Of course, I could just use the Angelic combo.
 
Last edited:

frozzzen

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

My advice would be to get rid of Verdungo's. I love this belt, I really love it, but it has no place on Travincal WW barb. String of Ears is better in any way. I have SoE on my WW barb and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Leech, coupled with Areat's face fixes life leech, you can get up to 15% DR like on Dungo's and on top of that you have Magic Damage Reduced by 15. This really helps with Hydras. Also for merc, MDR is great way to fix those annoying Hydras. I use Reaper's(Amn), Gladiator's Bane(Ort) and Vampire Gaze(Ral). Mercenary is very durable, I don't remember when he died last time (we are talking months here) but I don't do Travi runs too much.

Dwarf star is also overkill, sure it adds some nice Hydra negation but I'd call it wasted ring slot :( It's possible that from my point of view Travincal has become child play since I have Grief/Beast and they are melting without even me trying so I don't have to focus on safety (4700life, 60 fire resist, 15 MDR is safe enough for me ).

Summary: Swap Dungo's for SoE to get MDR, so you will have free ring slot and use something that would actually matter :wink:
And yes, take that Shael out. It's useless on WW barb. Argent Jewel of Carnage should really be best choice here.
 

SnickerSnack

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: respec for GF whirl barb?

Thanks for the input.

I put the argent jewel of carnage in the helm, and I replaced dungo's with SoE. I haven't bothered with rings yet, but I guess I'll just get AR and life from them.

I think I'm going to have to actually calculate accurate to-hit rates with various gear. Switching from metalgrid and some AR charms to the angelic combo, the LCS only went from 80% cth to 83% cht. If the benefit is actually about that much, then it's not worth it.

Right now, I have Highlord's Wrath in the amulet slot. It raises his chance for double damage from 72% to 93%, which I interpret (correctly?) as a 29% increase in damage per hit. It also gives about 250 AR on the LCS due to the +1 skill (and another 1% horking).

Needless to say, I'm having trouble optimizing. =P Survival isn't really a problem. I think I've only died twice in about 100 runs, and the merc only dies when conviction is involved (but that should be fixed once I resocket his gear).
 
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