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Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by In the name of Zod, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    I've got to admit to almost complete ignorance as to how staff mods work. All I understand is that the odd's of staff mods are item level dependant. Cutting to the chase, what I want to know is what item level orb is required to have the best chances at a perfect enchantress orb. My best guess at what a perfect enchantress orb looks like is +2 sorc skills +3 fire skills +3 enchant so it would have to be a rare to get 2 prefix's on it and the +3 enchant would be an staff mod correct?

    Arch-angel is item level 50 (+2 sorc skills) rare/magic prefix
    Volcanic is item level 60 (+3 fire skills) magic prefix only
    +3 enchant staff mod (no idea what's require for this).
    Is +3 sorc skills available on magic orbs?

    So should I get a item level 60 rare elite orb and keep re-rolling it with 6 perfect skulls? Much thanks in advance.

    One other thing since its kind of on topic. I've found a +2 sorc skills with +3 enchant magic orb. Can someone tell me the odds on this and should I wait for better before spending my only perfect fire rainbow facet on it. I also don't have a enchant ormus robes yet so maybe I should try for one of those first, would that be better odds?
     
  2. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    These prefixes don't spawn together (even on a rare), so pick one or the other, but not both.

    The absolute best you'd get would be a magic orb with the Volcanic prefix and +3 Enchant and +3 Fire Mastery staff mods. And then have Larzuk punch a couple of holes in it. What you have is already very respectable.

    And you'd want a magic orb that's ilvl60 that's rerolled with PGems to have a chance to get Volcanic/+3 Enchant. Actually, orbs may have +1 magic modifier, so you might be able to use an ilvl59 orb (can't remember for sure). In either case, good luck to you on getting it.

    I can't tell you the odds, but I've been picking up rare orbs since I started playing ~5 years ago, and have been picking up magics for a year or two searching for this orb. I haven't found one that good yet (closest was +3 Lightning skills, +3 Enchant. :banghead:). Currently I'm still using the 'Leaf' staff I shopped from Drogan in Act2 Normal for my prebuffer (+3 fire skills, +3 Enchant, but I can't use it with a shield and it doesn't boost FM either).


    For the facet, unless you have that orb actually equipped & active when you whack the monster/cast your spell, the -Enemy Resistance stat on the facet is useless to you. If you're only using the orb for prebuff, the only stat on the facet that matters is the +damage - and even then the +3-5% from the facet only adds on top of your Fire Mastery (which will probably be over 200%). So that stat on the facet isn't going to have a lot of effect either.

    So I wouldn't blow a perfect facet there... go with a crappy one and save the perfect for a different project (or at least save it for the perfect orb).



     
  3. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    Ok thanks, but I still need more help.

    The perfect enchantress orb =
    +3 fire skills (volcanic) magic prefix only
    +3 fire mastery (staff mod) rolled on item creation
    +3 enchant (staff mod) rolled on item creation
    That's it? you can't get better than this?

    Since the volcanic is item level 60 required there is no point in getting a higher level orb since it will only add unwanted affixs into the roll thus reducing the odds of getting what's wanted. I don't understand the magic level bit sorry.

    From the item generation tut.
    This is a little helpful regarding staff mods. Orphan in another thread broke this down further.

    edit: cleaned up some stupid posting on my behalf. Probably seems a little disjointed.

    sirpoopsalot, thanks very much for the feedback. I hope you have better luck soon. Maybe if we can get some more info on this topic we will both be closer to getting that perfect enchantress orb.

    What I'm after is a full and comprehensive explanation on how staffmods are rolled inclusive with odds with each skill. Specifically for elite orbs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  4. Orphan

    Orphan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    The +1 Magic Modifier is the only thing allowing the orbs to have an alvl equal to their qlvl or ilvl + 1 :thumbup:. Otherwise it'll be a complicated procedure to work it out.

    Still, knowing the qlvl of the weapons (especially the elite ones) is important, as it can mean the ilvl becomes a non-issue if it's high enough. The qlvl of the elite orbs are:

    Heavenly Stone = 59
    Eldritch Orb = 67
    Demon Heart = 75
    Vortex Orb = 84
    Dimensional Shard = 85

    So even with an ilvl of 1, all of the above orbs are capable of getting alvl 60 affixes (Heavenly Stone barely able due to qlvl 59 + magic_lvl 1 = alvl 60). Essentially this means that you can reduce the ilvl as much as you want without destroying the chance of getting +3 volcanic. The higher orbs will naturally increase the alvl (to alvl 86 for Dimensional Shards) which can increase the affixes available.

    The chance of getting Volcanic prefix with alvl 60 is 30:2923 (or 1.026%). The chance of getting Volcanic prefix with alvl 99 is 10:1069 (or 0.935%). So the lower alvl is a slightly better chance.

    With regards to the staffmods, the ones you desire are:

    Enchant = Tier 4
    Fire Mastery = Tier 6

    In order to get both of these staffmods, the items ilvl will need to be at least 37. It doesn't matter how high you go since it'll always start in Tier 5 at that point. This is important because starting in Tier 5 means there's a 20% chance of increasing to Tier 6 for Fire Mastery, and 20% chance of dropping to Tier 4 for Enchant. If the ilvl is lower than 37, you can't get Fire Mastery.

    The quality of the item doesn't matter for the staffmods, and beyond the initial starting Tiers the ilvl doesn't help either (unless it's an imbue). So you're pretty much relying on pure luck. I'm abit tired tonight so I'll probably make a mistake in my calcs but if someone else wants to take a whack at it then :coffee:

    Chance of Volcanic prefix at alvl 60: 30:2923
    Chance of at least 2 staffmods: 3:10
    Chance of a single staffmod selection moving to Tier 6: 1:5
    Chance of a single staffmod selection moving to Tier 4: 1:5
    Chance of the chosen staffmod spawning with +3 skills: 1:10

    At a quick rough calc, it's probably around 1:811,944 chance (or 0.0001%)

    So in summary, if you're using an elite orb, then the ilvl will need to be higher than 37 but lower than 60 in order to get the "best" chance. Of course, being a magical item you can't really influence the ilvl much. Most of the cube recipes will set the ilvl to be 30, which is too low for the Fire Mastery prefix. The good news is that there are mlvl 55-60 monsters capable of dropping Heavenly Stones (check Atma for specific monsters, they're on NM difficulty). Get cracking! If you get a magical one you can re-roll it.

    Edit: You can't shop, but you can gamble. Just remember the ilvl rules with gambled items.



     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
  5. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    Well that has certainly explained why you don't see perfect enchantress orbs everyday. After a quick search around I discovered that the hut in arreat plataeu always drops ilvl 59 goodies from its weapons & armor racks in nightmare.

    Arreat plateau monsters drop ilvl 60 items with the exception of champions & uniques at course.

    The bit that threw me was the up and down movement of staff mods. The idea of starting at tier 5 never struck me. The good news is [presumably] that we only need to move 1 tier in either direction of the staff mod starting point (tier 5) as you pointed out Orphan. Is it true that you can't have 2 staff mods on the same tier?

    From the wiki I found this:
    * 1: 1-11
    * 2: 12-18
    * 3: 19-24
    * 4: 25-36
    * 5: 37+

    I understand that now thank you Orphan. The left column (1-5) is the tier and the right column determines the ilvl that is required in order to be allowed or granted permission to access those tiers upon generation of such staff mods.

    By the looks of it its going to cost 300 perfect gems just to roll up volcanic on an elite orb. The next thing will be rolling up 2 staff-mods. So on the rand[100] wiki says it requires a roll of 71 or higher. This means 29% of the volcanic orbs will have a chance of at least 2 staff mod affixs. Presuming the orb has the correct ilvl for the job I am already looking at consuming over 600 perfect gems to have a crack at volcanic with at least 2 staff mods. That's not to mention we haven't even gotten to working out what those staff mods will be or how high the pluses on each given staff mod is.

    This is getting a little out of hand but I can see how special these items are now. If you get enough people burning gems the odds won't seem so huge and some lucky bugger will win out.

    If I get a magic orb that is ilvl 60 will this have the same odds of rolling a perfect enchantress orb as a heavenly stone will a low ilvl?

    I can see why it seems so complicated at first due to the number of processes that must take place in orb creation. Thank you Orphan, I'm actually starting to comprehend this monster. :nervous: Here I go :scared:
     
  6. Orphan

    Orphan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    You can get staffmods from the same Tier without a problem. Infact, you have a higher chance of getting a staffmod in the same Tier anyway. The ilvl next to each Tier indicates the Tier which the staffmod selection will start in when the item is generated. Once it has determined the Tier to start in there's:

    20% chance to go up 1 Tier
    50% chance to stay unmodified
    20% chance to go down 1 Tier
    10% chance to go down 2 Tiers

    So you actually have a greater chance of staying in the Tier you first spawn with as opposed to getting into another specific Tier around it. not that it helps you though :p

    Indeed it will. Any sorceress orb with a qlvl less than 60 (which is everything else anyway) will benefit from being ilvl 60. Because the ilvl will exceed the qlvl then it'll be the basis for the alvl generation.

    The important thing here is the alvl is at least 60 (regardless of item type), that the ilvl exceeds 36 and that it's magical. As long as the orb meets that criteria, then it can become the perfect enchantress orb. If you're going to do runs in a mlvl 60 area remember that champions and bosses have a higher mlvl, so items dropped from them won't be ilvl 60 but rather ilvl 62 and ilvl 63.



     
  7. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    That is perfect confirmation, thank you. :thumbup: That sounds like an ideal quote actually.

    I've decided to spend the whole day today running for the ilvl 60 orb in the hopes of eliminating the waste of 100's or 1000's of perfect gems. Just for the record I've found out that with ilvl 60 orbs you have 15:746 (2.0107238 %) of getting volcanic. Compare that to an ilvl 80 orb which has 20:1069 (1.8709073 %). It doesn't sound like much at first but when you think about the number of re-rolls it will take to make the perfect enchantress orb its worth using ilvl 60 orbs for sure. Courtesy of inDiablo.de affix calc.

    I've also found that rare ilvl 42 orbs have 11.82235 % chance of spawning with +2 sorc +2 fire skills. These would also be high enough ilvl to get all alvl staff mods. This could be easier except for the huge cost in perfect skulls. A 2,2,3,3 orb.


     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  8. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    You mean chance to spawn +2 sorc *or* +2 fire skills.

    The chance heavily depends on what type of orb you have anyway.



     
  9. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: Request for help re-rolling enchantress orbs

    Oh that's how it works. So you can't have more than 1 prefix or suffix from the same group, its really got nothing to do with the actual prefix's or suffix's in use at all. Never thought about that, is that the only reason groups are used?

    So when a rare orb spawns with +2 fire skills & +2 lightning skills then at least one of them must be a staff mod, possibly two? No hang on that doesn't work. Got to think about this, I'm sure I've seen it though. It must have been mastery.
     
  10. downding

    downding IncGamers Member

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    So I'm in the process of acquiring one of these. Got tired of rerolling "baal" grand charms which haven't given any 40+ lifers in a while.

    I understand needing a magical orb > ilvl 37 for tier 5 staff mods and an orb that can generate alvl 60 affixes. My question is why an elite orb? Wouldn't one of the exceptional orbs (like cloudy or clasped) work just as well and be easier to find in nightmare? This is for 1.13 btw.

    Sorry for the necromancy, but I thought this thread is directly related to my follow up question so I posted here as opposed to making a new thread. I think that's allowed? Apologize if it's not.
     

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