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Req: Build for newbie based around HoZ

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Earl Grey, Apr 29, 2005.

  1. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey IncGamers Member

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    Req: Build for newbie based around HoZ

    Having just found a Herald of Zakarum (169%ed) I'm now very interested in making a Paladin. The HoZ is without comparison the best item I've ever found. My best character is a Sorc-54, so call me a noob if you want. :)

    Please suggest a build based around this HoZ as the only high end item. I don't trade so getting other high end items for this character is not very likely to happen.

    Is socketing this HoZ with a PDiamond the way to go for me?
     
  2. beemander

    beemander IncGamers Member

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    HoZ's probably one of the best all around pally shield. i'd go with a hammerdin, but i'll say this ahead of time HoZ's not the most expensive gear he's gonna wear.

    actually it just occured to me that if u do any Paladin build it would give u a big boost.
    holy freeze paladin's are kinda fun too, just check out the strategy guides.
    have fun. :D
     
  3. UltraNull

    UltraNull IncGamers Member

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    Build an avenger if you feel like it.
    -No worries about immunities
    -Naturally higher max resists
    -No worries about AR.
    What more could a melee char want?
    (well ok, leech maybe, your leech will be crap, but hey, you can't have everyting ;) )
     
  4. xpumafangx

    xpumafangx IncGamers Member

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    If you did trading I would say get the disciple full set 12 pgems, raven frost (dont know), carrion wind (dont know), vampgaze Lem, and a good weapon. I use this set up on ladder so I can do nightmare and hell forge quest and have been doing very well at it. I socted my helm and armor with sheals. I have max resists in hell but 1 of them. I don't remaber witch one it is but it is in the 60's. It is a very cheap build ideal. I use this with a zealot but I can see how it would work with other melee based builds.
     
  5. batuchka

    batuchka IncGamers Member

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    I'd go with a Hammerdin ...a poorman's one initially and u could get wizardspike , skullders, shako, seraph's for cheap these days and item run in Hell for better items for furture chars/projects :p That HOZ alone adds nice skills to hammer and that with wizzy and 3 anyas should give you ok resists in hell. If u need more fcr then magefists or trang gloves? Holyfreeze merc with Insight for mana regenration , crown of theives for leech and duriels for resists/cannot be frozen and you'd do ok in hell hehe. Why if your resist are ok w/o wizzy then a spirit broad sword would be even better for +skills with such low runes :D
     
  6. Day

    Day IncGamers Member

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    You will find other items - once you get into late nightmare early hell - you'll find them eventually. A self found HOZ is very nice (i have never found one) so congrats.

    I'd agree that a HOZ is nice for any Paladin. For a build that's not item dependent - i.e. will enable you to go through hell (and which will like the HOZ) try a telefroster 20 Holy Freeze and 20 Holy Schock, a little (or a lot) Zeal as you like, some Holy Shield to give max block and extra defence, a point in vigour and redemption (if liked) the rest in resist all. Immunities are very common in Hell so you can switch auras to deal with immunes!

    The beauty of the build is a very rapid (no need for lots of gear) mana cheap attack all the damage comes from skills - good wepaons are a bonus but not essential. Try and get some crushing blow (in small games it really rocks)- my Telefroster used Crushflange all the way to act 4 Hell.
     
  7. Theriverstyx

    Theriverstyx IncGamers Member

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    you can base any type you want cause hoz rocks. You could go with a hammerdin but even if you go with the"poorman's: choice, it'll cost you somewhat. I have an avenger and their actually pretty fun
     
  8. HeavAngel

    HeavAngel Paladin Moderator

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    If your on (L) Up the Hoz.
     
  9. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the replies, it's been very helpful. For now I've started developing an Avenger. There seem to be two choices: either put 10 in each of the three resists or try and max them. Any thoughts on that subject would be nice.

    My characters are Ladder.

    Several posts say that it's tricky, and in rare cases even impossible, to use Blessed Hammer so I'm reluctant to go that way. Zealot is nice, but it's the only Paladin subclass that I've used before, although admittedly not much.
     
  10. Liquid_Evil

    Liquid_Evil IncGamers Member

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    For an item-poor guy like yourself, you're going to want to create a cheap but effective character. Hammerdins and very powerful and very popular for those reasons. An Avenger is a character built with good items in mind and according to a guide, you need about 200 average weapon damage, so if you can't rely on finding good items I'd say making a Hammerdin would be much easier on ya. Good luck regardless.
     
  11. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey IncGamers Member

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    Hmm... I will keep that in mind.
     
  12. Liquid_Evil

    Liquid_Evil IncGamers Member

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    Since you appear to be set on the Avenger here's some stuff I quoted from Asmodeous' Avenger Guide to help you on your way (I can't link to it as its on different forums)


    "...Basically, this means we need a lot of mana leech to keep Vengeance going. Depending on your weapon set up, you need between 8 and 16% total mana leech which is a tall order considering that we have the same problem with our life leech for the very same reason."

    "A very broad rule of thumb that won't be true for every character. But, it highlights how profound an effect that phyical weapon damage has on Vengeance damage. Remember our Mighty Sceptre example above, 40-52 points physical generates 222 - 288 total elemental damage at level 20 Vengeance with no synergies. Then you have the effect of the conviction aura which can double the elemental damage if the targets resistances are reduced to -100%. That is a lot of elemental damage stemming from what is a small amount of physical damage. The 1 point equals 30 points scale is roughly what my own Avenger has. 240 physical damage weapon, over 4,500 point average Vengeance damage with out Might Merc, Plus level 25 Conviction. If the targets resistances are reduced to -100%, then a ratio of 1:30 is a under statement. "


    "1). Damage. Physical damage is what creates Vengeance damage. Bonus's to skills don't help much because of the relatively low 6% damage per skill level of Vengeance. The general rule of thumb is that you need to have a weapon that roughly equals these minimums;

    - 220 average damage @ 11 frames per second attack speed.
    - 200 average damage @ 10 frames per second attack speed.
    - 180 average damage @ 9 frames per second attack speed.
    - 160 average damage @ 8 frames per second attack speed. "


    "- Enhanced damage gained from socketing in the weapon itself only.
    - Items that grant a damage mod, such as Blood fist gloves or War traveller boots.
    - Weapons that have a "+ to damage" such as The Redeemer, Butcher's pupil and Asteron's Iron Ward.
    - Items that enhance elemental damage such as Ormus's robes or facet jewels.
    - Min/Max damage Charms in the back pack, Min or Max to damage jewels socketed into equipment.

    What doesn't count towards Vengeance damage;

    - Auras enhanced damage such as Might or Fanatism.
    - Off weapon enhanced damage.
    - Factors such as Deadly Strike, Open Wounds or Crushing Blow.
    - Strength. Vengeance basically works from weapon damage only. "

    Once again, good luck with your quest.
     
  13. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey IncGamers Member

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    Here's an update on what happened.

    My avenger is now L50+ something and is great fun to play at the moment. My only other character over L25 is a L57 MeteOrb sorceress and even though the avenger isn't as good at crowd control he has other advantages which makes him very rewarding to play and a very refreshing change from the sorc.

    I've gone the way of increasing the three resistance skills and leaving Vengeance at level 1. I'll probably not raise the res skills to 20 each, but instead start raising Vengeance, but for now it's nice to keep the mana cost low.

    He used Milabrega's Rod :) until the mid-40s when I found a rare weapon, with decent ED, which does about 60 average damage. A great improvement. It will do for now, but thanks to your posts I understand that the weapon is critical for the Avenger to work well later.
     
  14. rg_22uk

    rg_22uk IncGamers Member

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    I don't think that anyone answered it but socket the HOZ with a pdiamond or Um rune (with the average ED% I would just go for a diamond and save the Um for somthing like the stoneword). This will give great resists just from just the shield. If you need more it is fairly easy to find resist small charms and just load up a wedge of inventory with them.
     
  15. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey IncGamers Member

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    Another update.

    I switched from Ginther's Rift to Butcher's Pupil. However just moments ago I found a (2os, 213ed) Djinn Slayer, my first elite unique find ever.

    - Djinn Slayer looks like the best choice of these three weapons, is that a correct assessment?
    - Also, what should I put in the sockets? Two Shaels?

    Equipment is (at level 76):
    Helm: Crown of Thieves
    Armor: Goldskin (upped to exc)
    Belt: Nightsmoke (upped to exc)
    Shield: HoZ
    Boots: Gore Rider
    Gloves: crafted 20 IAS
    Rings: rare
    Amulet: crafted +2 combat skills
     
  16. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    ouch. upped goldskin?!?

    i guess it's too late, but imho vengance is not a good skill to use. anything that is limited to normal swing is, imho, not worth using. but then again, i'm a big fan of crushing blow.

    re: djinn slayer: yes, it's the fastest of those three i believe.

    you can check wep speeds here:
    http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

    but the djinn slayer is not worth keeping, imho. you can easily find better stuff. what i usually do, untwinked, is to get a 3s tyrant club and make a black runeword. these clubs start dropping in a5 normal. these yield, iirc, around 150 1h damage.

    i'm not sure if you want to go with speed or power. given the message posted above, i guess power. the easiest way to get some is to use the chipped/flawless/normal gem recipie with the biggest, bruising-est wep you can find. given the (imho, crushing) speed limitations, you can go with a phase blade, fanged knife, or even a winged harpoon (all of these are -10 to -60 speed.) i believe scourges start dropping in nm, and these are really fast too.

    another option would be blood crafted axes. you can probably easily pick up a berzerker axe in a hell cow game.

    or, you can just wait. if you are getting djinn slayer now, i'm sure a better wep will drop soon, such as a nord's tenderizer or demon limb. i even found a lvl 42 req rare hydra edge with 280 1h damage and 30ias.
     
  17. Weltkriegpally

    Weltkriegpally IncGamers Member

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    djinn slayer doesn't do a lot of physical damage, but has hella good fire damage added and is really fast. dual shael is the best, I believe. for crowd control, I might suggest a point conversion. whack a couple of monsters to keep them busy while you whack others. for after the battle mana refill, hammerdin or not, nothing beats a point in redemption. level 9 conversion is the cap I would recommend, and hoz adds +4 to it. with the gear you have, I would say one point might be well worth it.

    I would ignore the comment ont he goldskin. It really isn't a bad armor upped. nice resists and defense. there are better options (upped magi is *GREAT*), but duress, smoke, lionheart (gotta love it) or some of the higher end ones are also good. good luck!

    --welt
     
  18. Earl Grey

    Earl Grey IncGamers Member

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    A "BLACK" Tyrant Club will according to my calculations deal 99 dmg on average. Also I'd need +71% IAS non-weapon to reach 9 fpa (or +137% to reach 8 fpa). That just won't happen. 10 or 11 fpa seem more reasonable. The damage is not enough.

    Slightly OT: Tyrant Club is an elite weapon. Do these really drop in Normal? :scratch:

    My Djinn Slayer (socketed w 2x Shael) does 112 avg dmg @ 9 fpa and only need +38 IAS non-weapon to reach 8 fpa. Still that's not even close to the 160/8 your quote recommends.

    Compare this with Nord's Tenderizer which I figure can expect to reach 144 avg dmg @ 9 fpa, but which can hardly reach 8 fpa. Even this weapon doesn't make the cut according to your quote.

    So, what do I need to do to reach 180 @ 9 or 160 @ 8)?

    - About Goldskin.
    I have a Guardian Angel, but not enough resistances which is why I use the upped Goldskin for now.
     
  19. MarathonMatt

    MarathonMatt IncGamers Member

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    I highly recommend a avenger, the insane elemental damage is really helpful. A good weapon wont be really hard to find along with conviction you'll be the life of the party.
     
  20. Quietus

    Quietus IncGamers Member

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    Just to throw my two cents in, there's a few runewords you might want to consider, if you can manage to get the runes.

    On the cheap end of the scale - Passion. Dol-Ort-Eld-Lem in any weapon, you get 25 ias, 160-210 ed, a bonus to your attack rating, a tiny bit of lightning damage, and +1 to both Zeal and Berserk. No, you will probably not use either, but that's not the point. :lol:

    Slightly more expensive, would be Crescent Moon. Shael-Um-Tir. Only works in axes, swords, and polearms - you can find a nice one hander to make this in. Gives 180-220 enhanced damage, 20 ias, ignore target's defense, a chance to cast static (Little less useful at the speed you'd swing, unfortunately), reduction to enemy lightning resistance, 25% chance of open wounds, magic absorb...

    And of course both come with other mods, but I named the ones that would be primarily useful to you. Passion, at least, is definately worth a second look, and can give (IMO, anyway) a fair number of uniques a run for their money.
     

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