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Repost : Bone/Summon Necro Build Guide

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Angst, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. Angst

    Angst IncGamers Member

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    Repost : Bone/Summon Necro Build Guide

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    Angst's Bone/Summon 1.10 Build (insert catchy name here)
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    1. Skills ::
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Curses

    +1 to all Curses
    (some you won't use much, this build uses Amp, Decrep, and Attract a lot, but the rest are nice for party play and don't require but 1 pt investment)

    Poison/Bone

    +20 Bone Spirit
    +20 Bone Prison - (only costs 1 mana at high level and has insane amounts of life, great for tying up all sorts of annoying enemies and especially LEB's and Baal's minions as well as bosses, This is also really good for bonewalling out any party members who cant teleport or leap attack so that you get a better chance at the boss drops, it pretty much ensures an amazon cant get anywhere near baal when he dies)
    +1 Pre Reqs
    Nothing into Poison
    All extra Skills into Bone Wall or Bone Spear (basically if you want a useful bone spear or extra bone armor)

    Summoning

    +20 Skel Mastery
    +3 Skel
    +3 Skel Mage
    +3 Revive
    +5 Golem Matery
    +2 Clay Golem
    +1 Summon Res
    +1 Blood/Iron Golem (perhaps not necessary except for clay golem synergy)
    (the rest of the summons are fleshed out by plus to skill and give you a fairly substantial and undying army if done correctly)

    Do all the pre-req's (meaning everything else up there except for the golem mastery) before you max bone spirit and skel Mastery, and try to put 4 or 5 points into bone spirit as soon as you get it, then go back to skel mastery and max them both at the same time. Then max prison, and then allocate points into whatever other bone synergy you desire.

    I have all 16 skills allocated on my keyboard in this arrangement to prevent easy use of almost any curse.

    BS on Left Click
    F1 - Amp
    F2 - BA
    F3 - CE
    F4 - Decrep
    F5 - CG
    F6 - RS
    F7 - RM
    F8 - Revive
    F9 - BP
    F10 - Attract
    Then on the Insert- Pg Down keypad I have 6 more curses I use for party play or when bored

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    2. Stats ::
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Str - As much as needed for gear 60 for vipermagi/frostburns, more if you have a higher str enigma (95 for scarab husk probably the heaviest) or however much you need for trangs

    Dex - Either enough for max blocking for whatever head you have or none at all. With this build you will have very substantial Bone armor and block won't help against elemental attacks so it might just be good to with none. My necro has max block for Homunculus and has no problems however.

    Vita - The rest of your points after Str/Dex/Energy

    Energy - I would reccomend at least 50 pts into here since this build relies on Bone Spirit a lot and I use trangs gloves instead fo frostburns, but someone with a lot of mana charms could probably get by without any.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    3. Gear::
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Several things to note before I get into this:
    Max Resists are very very nice for this build, but Cannot Be Frozen isn't necessary since you will be standing behind a wall of minions or bone prison most of the time. I will also put a special section into MF gear at the end since he can be used quite well for MF.

    Fast Cast is nice, but isn't critical, therfore I would suggest taking gear for resists and + to skill over Fast Cast in this case. You tend to run out of mana and chug blue potions fast enough as it is.

    FHR is also nice but not critical since your Bone Armor will usually protect you until you can run behind you minions again as well.

    Trangs Set probably works well for this build though I haven't tried it, I'll be listing the Trangs set pieces as choices for gear. Then uniques and Runewords I use, I like better than trangs and I dont look like a stupid bloodlord. :)

    (I'll be listing an ideal candidate and then several other useful ones as well, some cheap and some good for low level)

    Helm ::
    Ideally Harlequin Crest, Um'ed, Ptopaz, or Pskull all work well
    Also Wormskull
    Undead Crown
    Lore
    Peasant Crown
    +2 Circlet with good Mods
    Trangs

    Armor::
    Ideally Enigma so you can teleport your army
    Also Vipermagi is especially good
    Que Hegans
    Spirit Shroud
    Duriel's Shell
    Trangs Armor

    Belt ::
    Ideally Arachnid Mesh
    Also Nightsmoke mesh belt (upgraded)
    Trangs Belt
    Gloomstrap for extra mana
    Tal's belt
    Crafted Caster belt
    Lenymo for really low levels

    Glove ::
    Trangs Gloves Ideally(the +2 to curses is nice)
    Frostburn
    Magefist

    Boots ::
    Ideally Marrowwalk for the + to skel mastery and the other good mods or if you dont use bone prison and just use bonewall, though I think that getting to use bone prison outweighs the Bone Spirit synergy
    Good rares with mana 30% FRW and Resists
    Silkweave
    Nats boots
    Aldurs Boots
    Waterwalk

    Shield ::
    Ideally Homunculus, Preferably with an um rune for more resists. You just can't beat this shield
    1.10 Necro heads
    a good rare +1 or +2 head
    Trangs head
    Rhyme head with good + to skill

    Wand :: All sorts of choices here, I'm partial to Blackhand for the extra curses, but Umes with its big boost to decrepify is nice, The Arm of the King works well, Gravenspine is good at low levels, as is the Torch of Iro which can be used at level 5, and the new wands or a magical +2 to skill wand are all good choices.

    Rings ::
    Ideally 2 sojs,
    otherwise ravenfrost, especailly if you go for blocking or a bahamuts ring of the apprentice with a sick amount of mana and 10% fast cast work well too.

    Amulets ::
    IMO Ideally Maras for the resists and the + to skill, otherwise any sort of +2 to necro skill ammies with good mods like mana, fast cast, res all, life, str, dex are very useful, as is the eye of etlich at low levels, or a +2 caster amulet

    Charms ::
    You will want a mix of PB and Summon Charms depending on how the rest of your gear shakes out, mixed with 10-11% res small charms or 5% res all small charms to shore up resistances you dont have maxed. The annihilus is awesome for those lucky buggers who managed to get one as well.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    4. Mercs
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    I know lots of everyone always use Act 2 mercs, but I highly reccomend an act 1 Fire Rogue Merc for this build. My reasoning behind this is that she does really good dmg with a decent bow, She doesn't die, and she does wonders in getting you that first corpse either for CE or for Revive, Skel, etc. You don't really rely on your minion damage enough in this build to merit a might merc IMO. If you do decide to go act 2 Merc, then go for might, as he is the best one of them for this build.

    I dont suggest cold because shattered corpses are useless to a necro.

    Gear for the merc ::
    Helm ::Rockstopper, Stealskull, Gaze, Valkwing are all useful, with my suggestion being the rockstopper since its cheap and has resists.

    Armor ::Duriel's shell, Crow Caw, Twitchthroe, Skin of the Flayed one. Basically resists, attack speed, life leech, Dex are things to look for

    Bows :: Start with a 3 chip gemmed hunters bow, then get rares or whatever you can find until she can use skystrike or riphook. Both work well. Then Cliffkiller or Goldstrike being great choices, and Eaglehorn or Windforce for the rich.

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    5. Strats ::
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    I generally play a melee necro with a 3 socket chipped gem spear through act 1 normal and use clay golem and iron maiden to kill off Andariel. (Power leveling strategies include getting a Khalim's Flail or a hellforge hammer with another char and murdering everything everywhere in act 1 and 2) By act2 I have enough of an army to start playing like a Skelemancer. 3 skeletons, 3 mages, a golem and merc at the very least make a pretty good army for going through act 2. (with good gear by level 25 you should have +4or5 to skill and your minions just run though and destroy everything, otherwise you will just have to be patient, keep recasting, and keep a melee weapon on switch) Decrepify works wonders on the bosses and they should die pretty fast to your buffed out minions. You might also use attract or confuse on groups of monsters here since it is very effective in normal.

    Normal Diablo/Baal will probably be the biggest problem for this build, my suggestions are either to get in a party, or use iron maiden and glay golem, or decrep them and hope your minions are strong enough to do it. Also at this point you should have a few points into bone spirit/spear and be able to support them that way.

    Corpse Explosion is a great skill to use in 1-3 player games, and after that its better to just revive the corpses for use as meat shields for the party rather than wasting them on blowing them up for negligible impact.

    Killing magic immunes is pretty easy, as they die to the rogue generally, or amp+CE and minions.

    Once you get to nightmare and hell, the bosses should be pretty easy to take on, decrep and clay golem and bone prison usually renders all of them as easy meat to your army, provided you have high resists and can stand up to any elemental attacks. Diablo and Mephisto die especially fast to this. Baal running takes a little while but is generally pretty safe behind the wall of minions.

    To kill Black Souls, max resist is nice, but its also good if you just cast your golem near them, decrep them or dim vision them, and let your merc shoot them from a distance while you send Bone spirit's their way as well, Dim Vision is pretty much the best way to go since it prevents them from shooting.

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    6. MF
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    Ideal Gear ::

    Shako with Ptopaz
    Enigma
    Chance Guards
    War Travs
    MF Charms
    Ist'ed wand
    :: see the rest of the gear

    I really cant justify sacrificing anything more than this for the purposes of MF since the idea is to not die, and if you lose plus to skills with the Necro your killing speed drops quite a bit.

    Thats it. Suggestions welcome.

    Angst out.
     
  2. GenXCub

    GenXCub IncGamers Member

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    This is a themed build, not an "uber" build.

    Suggestion #1... don't say this: "This is also really good for bonewalling out any party members who cant teleport or leap attack so that you get a better chance at the boss drops"

    That's dirty pool... like the guy who said "enough stats to pk and win" it makes it sound like you can't play.

    Suggestion #2: You really don't need 3 points in revives. If you have all the +skills gear you suggested, you'd have plenty with just 1 point.

    You have 89 points in the above skill plan... that's a good number for people who don't get rushed, so I'll put out how I would use that number of skill points, and assuming +8 summoning skills.
    (these are base points)
    19 Raise Skeleton (gives you the 11th skeleton)
    13 Skeleton Mastery (this can change, see below why I picked this number)
    20 Bone Spirit (+3 prerequisites)
    7 in curses (Ignore the middle ones... Iron Maiden, Life Tap, Lower Resist)
    1 Skeleton Mage (this gives you 5 mages... good for a moving bone armor)
    1 Revive (that's 9 revives at your command)
    2 (Blood/Iron Golem as prereq's for Revive)
    1 Golem Mastery
    1 Summon Resist (maybe a few more, but at slvl9, it's at 56 resist all, and each point after that only improves by +1 or +2, not worth a skill point in my book)
    1 Clay Golem (a slvl 9 Clay Golem with slvl 9 Golem Mastery after skills has over 2k Hit Points in hell)

    This is using 69 skill points. Leaving 20 skill points left. You can use some to beef up the skeleton, some to beef up Bone Spirit Synergies, or even do corpse Explosion... it IS a bone skill after all. If you play solo games, it's ESSENTIAL. If you're a party necro, go for the bone synergies.

    The whole reason for this write-up is that having 3 points in skeletons and mages doesn't make you much of a summoner.. If you're going to max Skeleton Mastery, you may as well use skills that make use of it.
     
  3. Angst

    Angst IncGamers Member

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    The whole idea behind this is not an "uber" build for one. I made this based on the way I made my character, and if I was going to optomize it, maybe I would. It works fine the way it is. The idea behind the extra Skeleton skills is to give you a half decent army with minimal plus to skill. The bulk of your fighting will be done by revives, I like having around 20, so the extra skill points were necessary.

    That more than anythign else is why I ignored the Skeletons and Spread the points around. This is *not* a hybrid Skelemancer, it's somethign that uses the much maligned revives to great effect. Give it a try before you tell me that it doesn't work, even if you just go make a test character in single player.

    You *can* use Skeletons with something similar, but I chose not to in this case.

    Assuming what I had and +9 to summon skill which is not unreasonable,

    You get 12 revives, a beefy clay golem that tanks well and doesnt need to be recast saving mana for the bone spells, 6 fairly beefy skeletons and mages, *and* you get even more bone synergies than you have, so you are able to do more direct damage than if you spent 19 on skeletons and 13 on skel mastery. This build maxes out at around level 84.

    As to the bonewalling around the boss, it works great when playing solo, and it's a valid skill. I don't see why that makes me less of a person for putting in something you can *possibly* do for party MF, when most of the characters will just run up and take the drops anyhow. Ever tried killing baal in a big party on dialup? you have absolutely no chance of getting anythign he drops.

    Also, level 8-10 corpse explosion is more than enough for solo play, and with the large mana pool this character has, you have enough to spam it, so that isn't an issue either. 1 point is plenty.

    Angst.
     
  4. GenXCub

    GenXCub IncGamers Member

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    The problem with revives are... as Mantis puts it, they don't have artificial intelligence, they have artificial stupidity. Because this is a hybrid build, you have to maximize the value of your skill points that you spend. Hence the reducing of Summon Resist, Golem Mastery, and Revive.

    I know this is an agree to disagree discussion. I never wanted to say that your build sucked, however I am more partial to skeletons over Revives. Reducing the skills I listed in the last paragraph would get you 2 more skeletons... and the +%ED on the Raise Skeleton skill is generally better than Skeleton Mastery... which is why Skelemancers max RS before SM.

    I suppose the other thing that needs to be defined is, if this is not an equal hybrid, is this a summoner with Bone as a backup (a la the old Arty necromancer), or is this a Bonemancer with summons for backup.

    I think your build focuses on the Bone, and mine focuses on the Summons.
     
  5. Angst

    Angst IncGamers Member

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    Generally, yes, it is more weighted towards bone skills.

    It's pretty obvious just by looking at it, since I have 2 Bone skills maxed, and only 1 on the summon tree. The distribution being 9 in curses, 39 into summoning, and 48 into bone by the time you hit level 84, with hefty bone armor and a big damage BS by the time you max it out.

    If you were to optimize it for Bone, It would be even more lopsided with 9 or 6 into curses, 28 into summons, and a full 59 into bone skills, or 62 if you dont take 3 curses.

    As for the revive AI, yes they are painfully stupid sometimes, but their power with minimal investment makes up for it, and with judicious use of the TP trick, a tele amulet/circlet/staff, or ideally enigma armor, you can concentrate your revives where you need them and do a great deal of damage without investing 40 points into effective skeletons, or even 30-35 into slightly less effective ones.
     
  6. Beatboxer

    Beatboxer Member

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    GenX I felt similar to your opinion when I had first seen Angst's build but I tested it out in single play and I was pretty impressed with it. Those skeletons are meatsheilds in this build whereas the revives deals some damage while you bonespell them into the ground.

    If you transfer this same, basic, skill ratio to the poison skills you get a pretty cool balanced hybrid as there as well.

    Revives may be dumb but they are near godly. They don't really fall when skel mast is maxed. Teleport is of immense help like Angst mentioned.
     
  7. Baboon

    Baboon IncGamers Member

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    Nice guide, made me start another necro again. I'm leaning a bit towards Genxcub's comments, since I don't understand where the magic number 3 comes from. I'm putting one point in mages and revives and golems and golem mastery.

    One question: Why not Bone Spear? It's cheaper and it gets more damage from synergies (like Bone Prison) than Bone Spirit. Or does it just need a lot of synergy to work?
     
  8. gvandale

    gvandale IncGamers Member

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    Could you tell me why you went with basically +3 to all summon tree skills?

    Would it not be better to Max Skele Warrior, 1 Clay Golem, 1 Golem Mastery, 1 Summon res, and the rest into Skele Mastery?

    g
     
  9. Angst

    Angst IncGamers Member

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    The "magic number" 3 comes from playing this untwinked at early stages in the game, it allows you to get a decent amount of minions in act 1 and 2 in order to stay alive rather than having to get rushed through to act 3/4 where it takes on most of its full potential.

    Bone Spear vs. Spirit is really up to you, I use Spirit because thats they way I built him, haven't tried the spear build. I put pts into bone Prison rather than spear as a synergiy for spirit because I wanted the bone armor synergy too.
     
  10. nater

    nater IncGamers Member

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    My hardcore ladder build

    Ok, im not gonna do a guide, but explain my Build. This isnt for the item poor player.
    Base skill points:
    Skelly mastery 20
    Skellys 20
    Each other summon skill-1
    Curses-1 in each curse in middle and right side
    Bone Spirit 20
    Bone Wall 20 (Bone wall and marrows give your bone armor like 925 def)
    ITEMS: Shako,Enigma,Heart of the Oak flail, per diamond Humunoculus,Marrowwalks,Frostburns,Tgods,soj,Dwarf Star, Any good nec amy. For mf switch to Chancies, Goldwrap(upgraded), mf rings/amy.
    Inventory: The name of the game is resists, get them to max in hell diff.

    Merc: no question in my mind...act2 might with Best gear possible.

    How to use this nec: Amp all enemies when soloing, it takes away immune phys. Lower res when in party with javazon or sorc. Use your skellies AND revs, with enigma it doesnt matter how stupid revs are...tele rounds em all up.
    Bone spirit is lethal in this build, aproaching 2.8k, use to finish troublesome specials and bosses.

    Note: My nec is lvl 91 on useast hcl. I can solo 8ppl hell easily, have done so in 8 ppl rush. I have soloed diabloclone hell(yes it is possible, took me 3 min, refreshed mins twice).
    One other point: Keep str at base needed for gear, Dex high enough to max block(yes MAX).Energy at base,mana pots are sold in town. ALL else into VIT.
     
  11. Meosha

    Meosha IncGamers Member

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    I designed a necro using a build almost exactly like this, and it absolutely hit the brick wall at around Act 5 Nightmare.
     
  12. wildcard313

    wildcard313 IncGamers Member

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    I made a Necro using this exact build, and hit that wall at lvl 79...I could barely get through Act 1 Hell with it. I had decent equipment (homo + ist, nice rare +2 necro wand, morro, trangs armor/belt/gloves, shako, maras, 2 nice rare caster/resist rings), had all the listed points in SM & SK, maxed Bone spirit, and was working on Bone Spear and prison...what kills this build I think for me was the points in prison. Marro's bug would have really done me alot more good than being able to use prison...I would really recommend that if you want to try out this build dont put points in bone prison, its cheesy but adds tons of power.
     
  13. Curry-Chi

    Curry-Chi IncGamers Member

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    Well, heres my Plan:
    20 Skeletal Summon
    20 Skeleton Mastery
    20 Skeleton Mage
    3+ Amplify (Wand Gives this)

    I jus started this necro in Hardcore and its so easy to pass.. i thought i would have trouble in NM with this.. I got a Act 2 Offensive merc... Right now im wearing Sigon plate/shield/cathans<-Dont know why im gonna use cathy, but.. anyways) I got a dread Spell also, which in 5 levels (level 43 right now if i remember) will be a good weapon for my until more uber equipment arrives..

    PS: Should i Max out CE?
     
  14. goodforyou2k4

    goodforyou2k4 IncGamers Member

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    Yay!!! thx alot for the help for starting my new necro.. i am a noob at necros.. i was just looking at some of the skills you told me to add on... if i wasn't gonna use all the curses, do i need to still add it on all the curses just incase?? another thing is, why use clay golem? why not fire golem or another golem.. clay goelm is very weak... just it isn't imune to anything.. fire gloem is imune to fire, and iorn golem is imune to poison.. that is alot better then clay...
     
  15. goodforyou2k4

    goodforyou2k4 IncGamers Member

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    another thing is, what is the efect of using the whole trangs set? all i know is i become a ghoul and i can use ghoul spells.. eg. meteor, fireball and fire wall... wat other special effects does it have?
     
  16. Beatboxer

    Beatboxer Member

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    Angst only pops in evry now and then frokm what I've seen lately so I will give you a few basic answers to your questions good.

    1)Why curses? Because they are useful, all of them. You might not use them often, but they can and will all come in handy and add a lil' more depth to your gameplay. Party players benefit most form 1 in all curses. Outside of your basic curses though the rest are optional....

    2)Why clay? Dude, Clay is King Golem in 1.10. He used to be the nothing but now there is no other Golem that can touch clay. Why? Clay golem slows opponents by a percentage up to 60%(!) I beleive. He also can have 4 times the life of a fire golem. Why and how more life? Well, clay golem gains life from points into both golem mastery and the clay golem skill itself. The last benefit of clay is his very small mana cost. You can cast him all day and not lose too much mana.

    3)Trang's full set offers some of the best bonuses for a set in the whole game for me. See the items page on Dii.net homepage...it should list full set bonuses. If not just re-post here of create a new thread asking about it.

    The only problem with using Trang's set is the current bugs concerning attack speed and cast rate, that is, you attack and cast only as fast as Ghouls and cannot speed it up through jewels/runes and such...


    Hope that about covered it...ask away if not. :drink:
     
  17. uncreativereally

    uncreativereally IncGamers Member

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    I've been hearing about ppl having trouble with bone+summon necro and after reading this build i see why.

    problem #1: This is PvM not PvP spear is much better than spirit for this build. If u disagree think about this name all the place skeletons hav trouble in (arcane, tombs, maggot, ...). In these areas your enemy lines up that is perfect for spear.

    problem #2: Your merc ... act 1 fire o_O.

    Heres the hierarchy of mercs (If you use any thing below #5 you need help)
    1. act2 might
    2. act2 holy freeze
    3. act2 prayer
    4. act2 bless aim
    5. act5
    6. act1 cold
    7. act3 cold
    8. act2 combat
    9. act1 fire
    10. act3 fire
    11. act3 light

    problem #3: Skeletons are your friend and you abuse them. You should be arrested. Your 3 skellies will be over run by any monster pack. I hav 11 skellies and ever boss pack I run into out numbers me 2:1. 22 monster vs 3 skellies arent very good odds. 12 mages suck, they dont have the damage or life to be good in hell, what are 3 going to do? Having to baby sit revives hurts your killing speed.

    problem #4: CE is your most godly skill you need more than 1 point in it because ... ... i never thought the day would come where i would have to explian this.

    The Better Bone/Summon Necro

    skills:
    20-skeleton mastery
    20-skeleton
    1-clay golem
    1-golem mastery
    1- summon resist
    5+-CE
    20-bone spear
    1-bone armor
    20-bone wall
    1-all curses
    rest in synergies

    stats:
    str-min for gear
    dex-min for gear
    vita-rest
    ene-100

    gear:
    helm-shako
    armor-trangs
    belt-arachnids
    weapon-arm of king leoric
    shield-homo
    ring- 2x sojs
    gloves- frosties
    boots- marrowwalk (DONT HAVE MAX DURIBILITY. DO NOT USE THE BUG)
    ammy- mara's

    merc gear (act2 might):
    (always have rattlecage for boss fights the CB works really good)
    Godly
    helm: Gaze
    armor: Shaft
    weapon: BotD Elite Polearm (Cryptic Axe is good)

    Good
    helm: crown of thieves
    armor: Que-Hegan's
    weapon: bonehew (hel and amn)

    Better Hybrid Idea (Poison/Summon Necro)

    skills:
    20-skeleton mastery
    20-skeleton
    1-golem
    1-golem mastery
    1-summon resist
    20-psn nova
    20-poison explosion
    5+-CE
    5+-LR
    1-all curses
    rest-poison dagger

    stats:
    same as above

    gear:
    same as above except:
    gloves- trangs
    wand- deaths web
    armor- bramble

    merc gear (act2 might)
    same as above
     
  18. Beatboxer

    Beatboxer Member

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    Badfrom Uncreative coming into one guys thread and posting your 'better' version....for shame.

    Angst explained his choice of revives over skeles and his choice of prison over wall. It's not cool at all for you to declare yours better especially in his thread.
     
  19. uncreativereally

    uncreativereally IncGamers Member

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    It was "badform" of him to post this guide where new necros might see it and think that it would work. It isnt very nice to pick on noobs (people new to the game or new to necros). As I said before most bone/summon necros who are having problems killing monsters point to this guide for their information. Besides whats so bad about the truth?
    You just pointed out another 2 problems with his build skellies > revives, revives do less damage, have a time limit, and as other have pointed out they have AS not AI and a bone/summon necro SHOULD be killing to fast for wall or prison to help or be needed.

    EDIT: I showed two better versons not just one.
     
  20. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Still bad form. Better make your own thread than hijack one from somebody else.
     

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