Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

[krzysztof]

Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

I always like to try and be an active and useful member of the (very few) forums I belong to, perhaps start a few conversations instead of passively add to them. So, here goes my first attempt on these forums!

If we can all agree on one thing it was that Diablo 2 had massive replay value. I can say without a doubt that my investment vs. return on Diablo 2 was far and away the highest of any game I have ever played, with a distant second being Starcraft.

What was it that made D2 so ripe for replay? Can it be replicated again in D3? Do you think that many of us will be playing D3 nearly ten years after release?

What would you like to see in D3 that could potentially add some great replay value, or perhaps improve on D2's take of what replay value should be?

 

[Risingred]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

Here's my list of what they did right in D2 for replayability:

1. Randomness of course.
2. Loot, of course.
3. PVP that was interesting enough, pre-XP at least.
4. Trading! Lots of trading. Trading is killer.
5. Variable character builds per class, even if most people don't bother.

Now, what can d3 do?

1. Randomness, of course.
2. Loot of course.
3. PVP that is completely seperate from PVM. Like in Guild Wars. Guild wars probably had some of the best rpg-ish PVP I've ever seen. The christmas games in particular were just downright fun.
4. An Auction House. This is the highest item on my "plz" list for Diablo III. Better trading interface, which isn't hard to beat. Better methodology for trading and a better economy.
5. Stop the hackers.
6. Respecs, which they added in, will help keep characters fresh and encourage really insane character builds, which is great (imo).

No immunities please. That's lame. There's easier ways to control difficulty.
Give us more than one expansion. Support the game you worked so hard on and we'll support you for ten years. We have proof of that.

Basically, live up to the legendary status of the diablo franchise, which is easily my favorite line of games ever, and I'll keep on playing the game.

 

[sorcererbob]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

They've done things wrong too. The whole normal, nightmare, hell situation was a bit lame. Wouldn't it be better to have 15 Acts which scale up in difficulty continually? I understand that a lot of time goes into level development, and that it probably wasn't possible given budget/schedule etc, but it could have been better. Really they've only done a third of the work they should have in a sense. Also I'd prefer the game to scale up in difficulty at a constant rate instead of the insane difficulty change between Act 5 NM and Act 1 Hell.

The item finding thing is good for keeping people hooked. I'd like to see achievements too, in standed Valve style. Things like:
Finished the game.
Finished the game with every class.
Finished the game in hardcore.
Finished the game in under X time.
Finished the game totally solo.
Finished the game with no items.
etc.

It gives you something to work towards to just like items, except I prefer it because its more under your control.

I totally support an auction house - the trade community needs to find a better way than spamming public channels or using forums to organise trades. And the solution should be totally ingame.

PVP arenas are something that have worked well in wow too. Although I'd like to see arenas with more variety than "1v1 kill each other". larger battles. 4v4 would be awesome (since 4 is the maximum party size its what you'd be used to working with). Also, capture the flag or king of the hill or "Infected" (one person is infected, and moves faster than the others, and when he's killed he respawns elsewhere. When he hits someone they become infected too) would be a nice change from the norm. Just fun things to do when you're bored of questing or MFing. Its a good way to create more of a community spirit too - to have some fun.

 

[hubb]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

They've done things wrong too. The whole normal, nightmare, hell situation was a bit lame. Wouldn't it be better to have 15 Acts which scale up in difficulty continually? I understand that a lot of time goes into level development, and that it probably wasn't possible given budget/schedule etc, but it could have been better. Really they've only done a third of the work they should have in a sense. Also I'd prefer the game to scale up in difficulty at a constant rate instead of the insane difficulty change between Act 5 NM and Act 1 Hell.

I've always thought they should've done away with normal/nm/hell and just scaled the monsters up according to your level. So you can replay the game essentially infinitely, but it gets harder every time. It also stop farming as you start in act 1 every time you finish the game, and cant go back. Maybe this is a horrible idea, I dunno : D

 

[AFS]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

I've always thought they should've done away with normal/nm/hell and just scaled the monsters up according to your level. So you can replay the game essentially infinitely, but it gets harder every time. It also stop farming as you start in act 1 every time you finish the game, and cant go back. Maybe this is a horrible idea, I dunno : D

Difficulty scaling based on level is not an uncommon idea. However, it may be difficult to implement in this game. Disclaimer: I'm not a coder, so I hope I'm not right here.

I think and feel that this is the way it should be. One game with a self-adjusting difficulty. Your clvl already applies to items spawned in drops, so I don't see how spawning enemies based on it would be much different.

 

[SysEx]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

What would you like to see in D3 that could potentially add some great replay value, or perhaps improve on D2's take of what replay value should be?

1. More loot. Jay Wilson said that there is a virtually endless stream of loot. I take that to mean there's a lot more loot than in the previous games.

2. Improved combat. We've already seen this. I know there's a lot mixed feelings about the removal of the potion belt, but I feel the replacement of it for more skill combination is going to improve combat immensely. It also looks like they are making all of the skills usable. We all ended up using the same skills in D2 after a certain level and that gets boring after a while.

So far they have improved upon the game in a lot of great ways. I really can't think of anything else they need to do until I see more of the game. I have a few gripes, but they don't have anything to do with replay value so I'll keep it to myself.

3. PVP that is completely seperate from PVM. Like in Guild Wars. Guild wars probably had some of the best rpg-ish PVP I've ever seen. The christmas games in particular were just downright fun.

I think it's safe to say that GW has the best PvP of any rpg. That game was built around PvP. There's a problem though... D3's classes are built around an entirely different system. First and foremost every class has to be able to solo the game. In Guild Wars you almost always need a Monk (support class) with you near the end of any campaign. D3 won't have a dedicated support class because he/she wouldn't be able to finish the game in single player.

They have to do something different from GW. I just hope it's as good.

Really they've only done a third of the work they should have in a sense.

Think of it like just about every other game. They all have difficulty settings, but this one allows you to keep your character when you change it. They're not really cutting two thirds of the game. It just adds more replay value by giving you more of a challenge.

Maybe this is a horrible idea, I dunno : D

It would completely and severely unbalance multiplayer.

 

[hubb]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

It would completely and severely unbalance multiplayer.

How and which aspect? Instead of #players and the difficulty controlling monster hp/xp, it's controlled by #players and the average level of those players.

You can still go back and help someone in a previous act. Nothing really changes, except that you obviously can't help someone in an act > yours.

*on topic: What makes D2 so replayable for me is loot diversity and rarity as there's always something better to find, map randomness and the fact that you can play a class mutiple times differently. So far so good, but I hope they keep some maps open and not the narrow corridors we've seen so far.

 

[Cantilever]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

I think only time will tell.

Its not a given cause it's all new people working on it. So it will be different.

Most of the designers probably dont know much about the Diablo series. Fortunately though blizzard has shown they will do what it takes to make sure their products are fun.

 

[TopHatCat64]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

Most of the designers probably dont know much about the Diablo series.

Uh, I'm pretty sure they do! I don't think Blizzard would allow their designers to design a sequel to a game they know nothing about.

Part of making a good sequel is building and improving upon the previous game(s).

 

[Cantilever]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

Uh, I'm pretty sure they do! I don't think Blizzard would allow their designers to design a sequel to a game they know nothing about.

Part of making a good sequel is building and improving upon the previous game(s).

I ment in terms of knowing about designing that kind of game, considering none of them were involved in the creating of Diablo 1 or 2.

Hopefully at least some of them were big fans and have the level of gameplay many of us do. However Im sure some are younger and may not have played the Diablo series.

Those guys get the homework of playing the game now heh.... I say they get no say unless every one of them have killed the ubers...:yes:

 

[sreda]

Re: Replay Value - Can the Formula Improve?

I always like to try and be an active and useful member of the (very few) forums I belong to, perhaps start a few conversations instead of passively add to them. So, here goes my first attempt on these forums!

If we can all agree on one thing it was that Diablo 2 had massive replay value. I can say without a doubt that my investment vs. return on Diablo 2 was far and away the highest of any game I have ever played, with a distant second being Starcraft.

What was it that made D2 so ripe for replay? Can it be replicated again in D3? Do you think that many of us will be playing D3 nearly ten years after release?

What would you like to see in D3 that could potentially add some great replay value, or perhaps improve on D2's take of what replay value should be?

1) Diablo 2 could be run on any machine practically.
2) It was very affordable throughout the years.
3) It was THE RPG to play during it's time, and people who stuck to it probably couldn't find another RPG to replace it.
4) The customization abilities in that game are quite large, though a few specs tend to be on top.
5) The game is cool, everyone loves the lore, the bosses, the loot especially.
6) New patches coming out, changing the tides of PVP battles every time, new items.
7) The randomness of the dungeons, the fact that there is a ladder system.

Lots of reasons, it's never one thing alone, it's all these small little features that come together to form Voltron, that make the game really remarkable.

I have a feeling D3 will surpass D2 with flying colors, as far as replayability goes, albeit not everyone will switch over from D2 but we should expect to see D3 being played for years after it's release. Much like WoW, and D2.