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Religious vs. Hypocrite

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by stormrage112345, May 27, 2005.

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  1. stormrage112345

    stormrage112345 Banned

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    Religious vs. Hypocrite

    In your (collective) opinion, are most people in the world claiming to be reliougs actually religious (truly live what they preach) or are most of them hypocrites who claim morality and righteousness only in front of others?
     
  2. AeroJonesy

    AeroJonesy IncGamers Member

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    My opinion in this matter is worthless as I have no clue what people do behind closed doors.
     
  3. Spawn of God

    Spawn of God IncGamers Member

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    they said i was crazy! yehahahaeeeeyaggger! but i aint! i aint i tells ya!
     
  4. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    Most are flawed people trying to be better. There are exceptions everywhere.

    Usama Bin Bombed
    Fairy Falwell

    To name a few
     
  5. proudfoot

    proudfoot IncGamers Member

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    Unfortunately a great many people claim their "hereditary" religion, following what their parents told them they are (I'm Catholic because I think the Pope is a good guy, I go to mass on Easter and Christmas, and my parents were; or I'm Muslim because I pray to Mecca, and my family is). I think this is the sad truth. Too few people really dig into what they claim to believe.
     
  6. Nword

    Nword Banned

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    I won't worry about whether people really believe or not...

    I'd worry more about someone who really believes that the majority of people are truly religious...

    But I might be wrong... I think Americans when I think people :confused:
     
  7. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    An overhelming (over 80%) of Americans claim to be religious. Are you calling them liars?

    You do realize that athiesm is a religion also. It's the religion of the Self. The Self is the source and be-all of everything. A more arrogent religion does not exist.
     
  8. Croup

    Croup IncGamers Member

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    Yet the working definition of an atheist is someone who simply doesn't believe in God, not someone who worships themselves as an all-powerful entity.

    Regardless, I think that most religious people are good people who truly believe. Still, there are some people who, after a while, are religious more by habit and attend church only out of duty. Still more believe that being religious is the only thing worth being and are incredibly inconsiderate to people who aren't religious, or just with every day common courtesy. But, personal atheism and dislike of organized religion aside, I think that most of the religious individuals are fine people, although not without fault.

    But then again, that's everyone.
     
  9. Damotta

    Damotta IncGamers Member

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    I think most people claim to be religious (at least in the US) simply because it's the common thing to do. They either believe in God, believe in self as Freemason pointed out, or have some sort of belief or moral system which they use to call themselves religous. Of course, if that is your definition of religious then you are religious. Just having certain beliefs or morals is often enough for people to categorize themselves as religious. But what they think is religous may not be religious to other people.

    Then there are the people who actively participate in a religion. Going to church (or a gathering of like-minded people for the purpose of practicing their beliefs), praying, reading religous text, that kind of stuff. A good many of these people are trying to live better lives through religion, but somewhere down the line they lose the meaning or get caught up in day-to-day life. They either may constantly swing back and forth between what's wrong* and what's right*, or they may simply forget all about doing what's right* and continue their religious practices (including calling themselves religous) simply out of habit.
    (*right and wrong in their sense of religion)

    Should not doing the "right" thing ALL the time stop a person from calling themselves religous? If so, then no one is religous because no one's perfect.

    So, in summary, religious is simply a label that is thrown around in today's culture, and means different things to different people. A person you might call a hypocrite may call themselves only human.
     
  10. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    Smeg, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever read. You don't have any clue about atheism. My atheism is a belief in myself and my abilities, that my own actions have consequences. How is that arrogant? You think that people shouldn't have confidence? That's what you're saying? Compared to a religion where one does good only because s/he's scared of going to hell or because they're forced to because they believe they'll be punished otherwise, it's much less arrogant. And no, the self is not a source, or a be-all of everything to atheists. That's flat out stupid.

    Goddamn it. Educate yourself for once.
     
  11. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

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    The arrogence comes from the belief that it is entirely you that is the reason for everything. I have a huge ego (deservedly so) but that doesn't mean that everything I have is by my own actions. I have been lead, cajoled, pointed, etc. to where I am today.

    You say I have no clue about athiesm and here you are condeming religion in general based on a singular Christian belief. I don't do good because of fear of punishment. I'm not a Christian. I do good because it's the right thing to do. To aid me in this I have turned to various monothiestic writings. You have no such writings, no such lessons. You have only yourself and society - which has been long ago established and is still goverened by men and women of faith. You are doomed to be governed by religious beliefs no matter how much you deny it.

    WHen you are reduced to nothing but insults I take that as victory.

    Go educate yourself. Read the Bible. Pay close attention to the Book of Ruth.
     
  12. dantose

    dantose IncGamers Member

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    *pees on thread to put it out*

    Come on man, this is a thread in which many people are arguing that most religious people are hypocrits. How is it any different for Smeg to argue that atheists are self centered and egotistical? How many times have you knocked Christianity as being a religion of intolerance? People in glass houses get out of the kitchen with a bird in the hand.

    Oh, and I would call anything that makes a claim about the supernatural (to include it's non-existance) a religion. Agnostics are really the only people i see as not having a religion.

    Now try to get along...
     
  13. jimmyboy

    jimmyboy IncGamers Member

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    Pretty much sums it up. This aint heaven. We aint perfect. But we're working on it. But it's work in progress so don't label us hypocritical.
     
  14. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    I don't think everything happens because of my own actions. When did I say that? I said I know the consequences of my actions and I believe in myself. And you call that arrogant? Please.


    So do I. So why are you calling me arrogant? I'm arrogant because I'm atheist? That's crap. I serve something higher. I serve society, the public and the general good. I do good to benefit others. Now are you going to retract that arrogant comment, or not?

    And Christians are just one. The big three major religions are all based around reward for good and punishment for bad. Bribery, if you will. Extortion might be closer, though.

    I didn't insult you. I said that your comment was stupid. It was. I didn't call YOU stupid. Take it however you want. You said something about atheism. It's wrong. It was a stupid statement. There, I laid it out for you.


    Read the bible for what? What possible knowledge can I get out of a fictional book? I've taken religious classes. I don't need to know what religion was supposed to be 2000, 4000, 6000 years ago. I know what it is now and that's good enough.

    Dantose: I knock religion for the things that's done in its name and against those who would use it to affect and manipulate others. I have no problem with people believing whatever they want as long as they don't try to affect mine or anyone else's life with their personal belief.

    And I don't think denial of anything supernatural can constitute a religion. Denial does not been admission that it could exist. By your definition EVERYTHING is religious when it's (and I am) certainly not
     
  15. Keldaris

    Keldaris IncGamers Member

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    Any religion where people kill in the name of a god that condemns killing is hypocritical.
     
  16. plasmo

    plasmo IncGamers Member

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    While I agree with that claim, I think it's a little harsh. Heck, I say I'm still a Lutheran around my grandma or anybody else if I don't want to get into an argument or make everyone feel uncomfortable.

    But, yeah, I think that most people who, if you ask them on the street, would say they're religious, really don't truly believe it. At least, almost all the "religious" people I know (go to Church regularly, claim to be religious, etc), if you talk to them one-on-one, admit they don't really believe. Usually, it's just something they've done their whole life. However, there are a few (very few, though) that still claim they're true believers. I don't really believe them, though.

    Even looking back through time, when people were supposedly much more religous, once you really look closely, they're largely just doing it to be socially accepted or to get material benefits, not because they truly "believed."

    Of course, the whole thing depends on how you define "religious." If you take Durkheim's definition, for example, it's pretty much anything that is socially cohesive (so his definition includes Marxism and baseball teams). The "final" definition my prof and I came up with in my modern religion class (which is pretty much the same definition I'd come to use after a few other philosophy of religion classes), is that a person is religious if they believe in a soul. To use an Aristotelian idea of definition, a soul is the species of religion; it is what religion includes that nothing else does. The only religion I can think of that wouldn't fit into this is early Judaism, as they didn't even consider an afterlife.

    As far as atheism, most philosphers of religion don't consider it to be a religion. Under the great majority of definitions that have been created by philosophers, it doesn't fit. It's missing Ninian Smart's rituals, Emile Durkheim's sacred/profane division, Clifford Geertz's symbols, William James' order, Immanuel Kant's divinity, Paul Tillich's answer, and on and on.

    And, even though it hasn't really been brought up, both theists and atheists claim knowledge of whether there is a god, while agnostists claim there is not enough evidence either way. So theism and atheism are opposites of the same kind, while agnosticism is on a whole different level. Although, in reality, almost all agnostics would side with atheists if they had to make a choice. At least I would.
     
  17. Phil

    Phil IncGamers Member

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    I am saddened to see that a large majority of people believe that religious people are hypocrits. I am not religious in any way, but I believe that most people who are, feel a certain need for religion because they truly believe in it's teachings. Because I like to believe in the good of humanity, I am currently the sole voter suggesting that most religious followers are actually religious as opposed to "going with the in crowd".

    phil

    PS - As an example. Say not a single American defines them self as religious without being hypocritical. That excludes ~330 million out of about 6.4 billion people in the entire world. In both China and India(the two most populated countries in the world), religion is more a way of life as opposed to just an accepted practice. I would think that most religious people in those countries are indeed religious.
     
  18. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    In the last year of my secondary school, our teacher "Zedenleer" (I don't know what it is in English but it could be called Moralteachings), made a survey for all the seniors about religion and social beliefs. Of all the people who answered "I truly believe in God" ~3 were Jehova's Whitnesses, ~2 were Christians and the rest were Muslims (about ~20 people iirc). When I talked to some of the Muslim people who voted yes, they admitted to answering yes because they felt they had to. I'm not saying it's like this everywhere, but where I come from someone who truly believes a god exists is the exception. I'm an agnost myself by the way ;)

    Atheism is not a religion. It is either the abscence of the belief that god does exist, or the belief that god cannot exist. That's all that atheism means, anything about believing in themselves is personal interpretation.

    HoD
     

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