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Rebuilding amazon for CS running

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by PandadudeSP, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yesterday I guardian'd my bowazon, but I didn't feel like making a writeup.
    However, I've tried to rebuild her for CS, and I have several dilemnas that I'm trying to figure out. I've done some basic calculations and some runs to compare some setups, but there are too many factors for me to consider all at once. Maybe one of you can solve the puzzle :D

    1. Pure bowa vs hybrid. I used a respec to go from pure bowa using Eaglehorn to hybrid (20 CS 20 LF) using upd buriza and thunderstroke switch. In practice I was not that impressed, however. According to my calculations CS with thunderstroke kills diablo around 2-2.5 times faster than GA with buriza with LoH, excluding any amp procs. On the other hand, LF seems really weak as to be pointless with only +3 jav skills (~1-1000 dmg), and no pierce (when paired with buriza). Merc is also kinda bad at keeping aggro, so I sometimes miss the valk.

    2. Upd Buriza vs Eaglehorn. I have no faith or WF, so these are my best bows. The Buriza is a low roll (156%) but it still has ~1.5 times more avg dmg than EH, at 4 fpa strafe and 13 fpa multi. Hit chance is ~70-80% with 13 in penetrate. EH shoots at 3 fpa strafe, and 11 fpa multi, 25% and 12% faster respectively. 3 fpa strafe is worse against single targets though due to 4 frame next delay. ITD is great against normal creeps, but against uniques it obviously doesn't work, and the scaling AR on EH doesn't do much with only 2 pt penetrate. Buriza has higher str reqs.

    3. LoH vs Ghoulhide. I thought there were more undeads than demons in the CS, but then there seem to be fewer in the RoF path. Ghoulhide has less dmg but also the scaling AR, and LoH has the fire res which frees up a ring slot (otherwise Dwarf Star). The IAS doesn't do anything for the Buriza, but is required for eaglehorn 11 fpa. It seems like LoH pairs best with the EH and Ghoulhide with the Buriza, but I can't say which is better.

    Core MF gear is:
    Stealskull ptopaz
    Skulders ptopaz
    Atmas Scarab
    Raven Frost
    Goldwrap
    War travs

    Might merc
    Eth upd Kelpie
    Shafstop
    Crown of Thieves/Rockstopper
     
  2. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    I would ditch some MF and go for damage, if you want to MF The Pit is a better target.

    Kira's should get resists out the red. If you don't have Fortitude socket some Ruby Jewels into a Jewelers armour shipped from Larzuk. You can get nice life here. You can also add IAS if you need it.

    Shaftstop won't help Merc if he is Amped. Treachery and Andariel's (Ral). I would consider Obedience for the stick, unless you really need the slow.
     
  3. necrolemming

    necrolemming Diabloii.Net Member

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    Running CS in hardcore without CtA sounds... dicey. What's the objective in picking that area instead of something more manageable?
     
  4. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP Diabloii.Net Member

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    If I wanted pure efficiency I would just run pindle on my sorc :) I can also run pits on several other chars, so I wanted to run CS for some variation. It also has Diablo for some TC 78 and 81 uniques I'm particularly interested in.

    @maxicek good advice on the hireling gear, I often use treachery but didn't think about it for the area with the most curses :rolleyes: It might also be prudent of me to drop some MF for damage. I'm not exactly swimming in ruby jewels, but I might do something with a Black Hades armor..

    @necrolemming I actually do have one CtA, just on another toon. Might be an idea to move it to the amazon, if I decide on a pure bowa and don't need the switch for anything else.
     
  5. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP Diabloii.Net Member

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    So I did some more research and some more testing, and settled on the following:

    I tried Hone Sundan with 1pt jab, and it was just as good as CS for killing diablo, saving 40 skill points. This lets me get a valk instead, and magic arrow for PIs. Also lets me have CtA on switch if I feel the need, only having to swap bow and arrows for hone sundan before diablo himself.

    I looked up that venom lords have ~3 times the HP of the undeads in the CS, so LoH is more important than ghoul hides. Seeing that I won't have the scaling AR vs undeads without ghoulhides, Eaglehorn ITD then becomes more necessary, especially until I hit a higher Clvl.

    I had a jewelers of the squid, but in ornate plate (170 str) so that was a no-go. I spent an hour shopping and found a jewelers gothic plate of stability. Not the best, but shopping is quite dull for me and 24 fhr does give me 2 breakpoints. Socketed it with 1 ruby 2 realgar and 1 ias jewel, letting me swap goldwrap for razortail and getting 100% pierce.

    For the merc I got another treachery and gave him an andys visage. Didn't have a socket quest for ral, but the kelpie negates the decrease in fire res. Only had 3 and 6 os eth polearms, and I didn't think crescent moon would be much better. Slow on diablo is also nice if I'm gonna be tanking him in melee without a shield.
     
  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    First, this is about HC, so safety first, killing speed second.

    I think it's easy enough to kill Diablo with GA, so you don't need a hybrid. Apart from that, charged strike might be a disappointment if you don't have lots of +skills, -res and synergies (which you have almost none of). I would go for a pure bowazon, even with Eaglehorn and its ITD. I guess strafe GA is the better skill versus D and you have enough skill points available, so I suggest to max it as well. Apart from the damage bonus, it will lower mana consumption and one doesn't simply leech mana from Diablo.

    I guess Eaglehorn is better, but perhaps a Buriza is better versus Diablo. You don't play a hybrid, so your weapon switch is unused and you could use both (and have CtA in the stash if you have it... which would mean TPing back and forth when BO is running out, however). You need more than 100 str for Skullder's anyway, so I think that reqs aren't a problem.

    I would choose LoH. The Storm casters don't have much lifer, so you won't need a bonus to undead at least versu them, and you can certainly make use of its IAS and fire res as well.

    You need Razortail for 100% piercing, except you choose a Buriza! When facing Diablo, you can put on Goldwrap (upped, so it can hold 16 potions), of course.

    You definitely need knockback! The usual sources are WF or (which I'm using on my Faith strafer) Giant Skull, but you don't have them, so I suggest to socket your bow/x-bow with a Nef rune. That's better than giving up Stealskull for a Howltusk or LoH for Cleglaw's or so.

    No matter what you do, you will lose your merc against Diablo 50% of the time. The firestorm will kill him and I'm not sure if e.g. GA will save him. You should perhaps even try getting along without him. You have a valkyrie. I usually max her because a non-hybrid strafer has enough skill points for that.

    Weapon: If you have an eth upped Kelpie Snare, then this is probably a good choice. If you decide for a HF merc later, I would choose something else, however. Nothing with ctc a curse or so, like Reaper's, because it will spoil amp from Atma's which is better for breaking PIs. I suggest Obedience then.

    Armor: I would rather go for resistances rather than DR. Therefore Treachery (ctc fade). It also offers IAS. More attacks -> more leech. If you have problems with the str req of your weapon at first: Griswold's armor with ptopazes pamethysts. +50 str with a level req of 45 is superb. Griswold's is also nice with IAS jewels in it.

    Helm: At low levels, I would give him a Crown of Thieves. Later on, it's Tal's helm. From L82 on, Andariel's+Ral, as soon as you have it.

    Edit: Pamethysts for +str in armor!
    Edit 2: GA versus Diablo, not strafe! Strafe is actually terrible versus him!
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  7. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape Diabloii.Net Member

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    Cleglaws on gloves, Kelpie on merc, a source of cold damage = boss stands still.
     
  8. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP Diabloii.Net Member

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    BO turns out to only last 100 seconds with only a spirit shield for +skills, hardly reliable :p I have 1000 health though, which is enough to survive a hit from a multishot oblivion knight (although I was pretty scared when it hit me lol)

    @krischan solid advice overall. I actually have 7 skill points floating now, either going into max valk + some decoy or penetrate for better hit vs uniques. I'm mostly using multishot, so don't know how important KB is, although it is neat for strafing. I used my last socket quest on the Eaglehorn and threw in a jewel of carnage, thinking the 14 max damage would be boosted by the %ED and %max ED on eaglehorn. It shows just +14 max on the bow damage though, quite a bummer. Might throw in a nef instead :)

    Edit: I have RoF path + full CoS clear at P1 in 7:30. I'm down to 130 mf so I don't know how profitable it will be, but it sure is fun!
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  9. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    If you don't have a knockback source so far, I strongly suggest to socket the bow with Nef. I think it would be a lot tougher without it. In this particular case, it's far, far better than a maxdmg jewel or probably any other socketing. Try it, then unsocket it and put in the maxdmg jewel and compare. All you are losing is a Nef rune and a rather common maxdmg jewel.

    FYI, I made a few careless mistakes in my previous posting, see the edits at the end of it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  10. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape Diabloii.Net Member

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    I agree with @krischan get a source of knockback. Either Cleglaws or Nef. I still prefer Cleglaws, they might not look good on paper but they are OP.
     
  11. BKC

    BKC Diabloii.Net Member

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    Is there anyone of you guys who can make a non mf limited setup here (gear and skills)? I would like to run CS with my amazon but i am far from the richest spfer around. (no buri, no wf, no faith). i do have a hellrack laying around i think? (and sorry to @PandadudeSP for hijacking your thread i am more then willing to make my own thread but your thread has nice and i think essential information already).
     
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  12. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape Diabloii.Net Member

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    Cheapest way to go is Fishyzon. Can run areas easily with only store bought items. You switch between javelin and bow skills quickly to deal massive area damage and kill immunes. I ran one of these through Hell with very suboptimal gear and no Infinity and did fine.

    Charged strike - quick boss killer
    Lightning fury - best area damage in game
    Freezing arrow - for lightning immunes and to slow monsters
    Cold Arrow - synergy
    Pierce - at least 1 point
    Dodge - 1 point. I don't usually go into Avoid/Evade.

    That's it. Easy build, cheap to make. You have some spare points if you want more damage or whatever. You don't really need a Valk, all your attacks are AoE and you're fast on your feet.
     
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  13. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP Diabloii.Net Member

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    It kind of depends on what you have available. Still, actually killing Diablo may be the hardest part, at least for a bowazon. I don't think Hellrack is quite as bad as people say, but the elemental damage doesn't scale, and elemental immunities means 1/3 of that damage is lost.

    I agree with grape, a fishyzon is most likely going to be better than a bowazon, especially with bad gear. It is easier to get resists (shield), weapon damage doesn't matter, you don't really need IAS, you have a boss killing ability, and +skills are also easier to come by than %ED.
     
  14. BKC

    BKC Diabloii.Net Member

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    thanks guys, i will check out his guide :)
     
  15. sanguillen

    sanguillen Diabloii.Net Member

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    If you can get your hands on a Witchwild String and the runes to up it (Lum + Pul), that's what my Strafer uses in hell. With Chance to Critical Strike being +1/lvl, in hell it's almost always double damage (and that gets doubled again if the Amp Damage procs). Two sockets for shaels and a +40 resist all and this thing really is a lifesaver in HC for those of us that can't afford the runes for Faith, nor have ever, EVER found a Windforce.
     
  16. PandadudeSP

    PandadudeSP Diabloii.Net Member

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    She worked well up to this point, got careless wanting to multishot rather than strafe, and trapped myself inside the doorway :rolleyes:
    Screenshot015.jpg
     
  17. drmalawi

    drmalawi Diabloii.Net Member

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    RIP

    Well played taking her so far at least
     
  18. Gynli

    Gynli Diabloii.Net Member

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    RIP. But gj.
    Bowazons are my fav but im always too scared to run in HC cause of the low life pool.
     
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  19. Grape

    Grape Diabloii.Net Member

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    RIP. But Guardian is always Guardian. Hope she managed to find you some goodies before deeds.
     
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  20. T72on1

    T72on1 Diabloii.Net Member

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    RIP. Congrats on getting her so far in the first place.
     

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