Raven are far better then Poison Creeper.

Aldarad

Diabloii.Net Member
Raven are far better then Poison Creeper.

When I started my Hunter-druid (Summoner with a bow) I read the advices of so-called veterans. Most where very good but one was truly #¤%&.

The first two skills as we all know are Raven and Poisoncreeper. All guides suggested to just taking 1 point in Raven, finding it worthless, but tossing the first few skillpoibts or even max PCr. The argument was that PCr at least poisoned the targets, stopping healing while Raven hardly did anything.

Such stupidity! If you want to poison your targets just gets some minor charm or other equipmtment and do it your self!

The Ravens however will consitantly and with some investment very accuratly Blind theire targets. All that played a necro knows that a Blind target only figths in selfdefence and losses ranged attacks. Perfect for glooms, Succubus etc.

I am so mad I didnt put the few points I invested in PCr into Raven instead. Now I am fully commited to boost Grissly and Direwolf instead and Raven has to wait.

Oh and please dont come with the argument that PCr gets truly good at slvl 20! At that lvl the ravens will blind all targets like 5 levels ABOVE you 100% of the time.
 

pureneeb

Diabloii.Net Member
haha yeha i had a good summoner but good summoners still suck, only thing they are good for is townguarding in pvp =p just summon bear while you are in town
 

nebux

Diabloii.Net Member
i made one now in SP level 83. but i maxed poison creeper.the blind from ravens is destroying decreptify from reaper's. they are a good adition when more monsters on screen . but when fighting PI they are useless. i didn't coose to go with an elemental bow, i have Vidowmaker, but i like more to see wolfes and mostly bear do the killing.
 

PhatTrumpet

Diabloii.Net Member
Such stupidity!
Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are numerous different ways of playing a particular build, and that maybe, rather than being a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of personal playstyle?

That was a rhetorical question, by the way. There's no need to come in here and call people stupid because they happen to play the game differently than you do.



 

Aldarad

Diabloii.Net Member
Did you ever stop to think that maybe there are numerous different ways of playing a particular build, and that maybe, rather than being a matter of intelligence, it's a matter of personal playstyle?

That was a rhetorical question, by the way. There's no need to come in here and call people stupid because they happen to play the game differently than you do.
OK, it was perhaps a bit harsh to call ppl stupid. As a Hunter I do respect that people play in many different ways. I just wanted to stress my point not cause insult. The support for PCr seemed so solid.

So I am sorry.

And thanks nebux foir pointing out that Blind removes other curses. Hadnt thougth on that.



 

Ed from Russia

Diabloii.Net Member
I have made several summoner/elemental hybrids. Raven is better than poison creeper, but still not worth more than 1 point. With the +skills you get from equipment, you'll easily have 5 ravens all the time. The extra damage from additional skill points is not worth it, you have ravens mainly for blocklock and blind. Poison Creeper is worthless because of low life.

Once you have maxed Grizzly and both wolf skills, you still have points left. Investing them in Raven or Poison Creeper is useless, so your choice should be (1) Oak Sage or Heart of Wolverine, and (2) an elemental spell, I like Fissure.

This is strong enough for Nightmare, but Hell is hard - for that you may want to focus on either Elemental or ShapeShifting.
 

Aldarad

Diabloii.Net Member
Neither huh :) ?!

Well we are getting beside the point Ed, but perhaps a purist summoner isnt viable....
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
The first two skills as we all know are Raven and Poisoncreeper. All guides suggested to just taking 1 point in Raven, finding it worthless, but tossing the first few skillpoibts or even max PCr. The argument was that PCr at least poisoned the targets, stopping healing while Raven hardly did anything.

Such stupidity! If you want to poison your targets just gets some minor charm or other equipmtment and do it your self!
I agree that it's pointless to put "a few" points into Poison Creeper- either put in 1 point, or max it, but don't take any half measures. Still, saying that poison creeper is useless is a little extreme. Because of the weird way that the poison mats work, Poison Creeper is capable of killing monsters in Hell (yes, in under 5 minutes, to boot!). How many monsters have Ravens ever killed in Hell? A maxed Poison Creeper makes a decent PI solution (it'd be a better one, if Physically immune monsters didn't tend to have such high poison resists).

Also, while you could certainly use a poison damage charm to poison monsters, Creeper is much easier. You can spam it to poison monsters from a distance, cast it to poison multiple monsters at once, or even let it passively poison random monsters without forcing you to stop focusing on whatever you're focusing on.

Finally, Poison Creeper is probably the only summon other than a Grizzly capable of tanking against the Ancients or other tough baddies. Since it spends most of its time underground, a lot of times enemies will be unable to damage it- and since it attacks, unlike the Carrion or Solar vines, enemies will most certainly target it. I've seen some of the Ancients running around in circles trying to chase a Poison Creeper that refused to surface because everything was already poisoned. That's one heck of a tank.

That also raises another point- Poison Creeper is the smartest minion in the game. It doesn't attack enemies that are already poisoned. Ravens will continue to attack enemies that are already blinded, Grizzly will continue to attack Physical Immune baddies, but Poison Creeper is smart enough to know who it can't hurt and then not even bother trying to take them down.

Don't get me wrong- Ravens are a fantastic skill that I always invest in, no matter the build. It's just that so is poison creeper.



 

pedu

Diabloii.Net Member
I build it for fun and to see what a bear can do in townguard.Can it really kill people?
It can kill crappy chars, often on the way out after their bodies. Dont do it only for laming in pubs. Its stupid and a waste of time.
But what you could do, is build a summoner and travel through hell. Twinked. It isnt THAT hard, a little patience and good twinks is all it takes. :thumbsup:



 

Jary

Diabloii.Net Member
omg haha...

Don't max either skill, don't even waste one point in poison creeper either. Use every point available to synergize your wolves and bear, then max Oak & HoW depending on the condition, then toss a point into werebear and shockwave just to have it. Poison creeper does literally nothing for you, it just dies all the time. Ravens are alright for blinding, but not even worth summoning during pvm 'cause they get so annoying to keep recasting that the time u spend resummoning could be spent shooting or killing-- if u have trouble just shockwave quick then go back to shooting-- it really isn't that tough.
 

bogie

Diabloii.Net Member
Summoners are completely hell viable. To answer your question, yes, a very twinked grizzly can take out high lvl chars in a few hits. I used the druid pet claculator to run some dmg tests on a "twinked" grizzly. He does about 20k dmg, thats one hell of a tank. Not many characters can take 20k dmg and live. For starters, you would need to have over 3k life just to take the initial blow. Using twinked out dire wolves will net you 3 summons that will do about 6.5k dmg per hit, or you can take 5 spirit wolves who each pull about 3.5k dmg apiece, its insane, having minions that do more dmg than many chars only hope to do. Poison Creeper helps alot in hell, bringing down the physical immunes (who only really exist in act 1, where they will have low life). With +skills, raven can be left at 1 point, as at lvl 16 it will start to blind every target.

Ps. MELEE SUMMONERS FTW!!!
 

Voice

Diabloii.Net Member
maxed pc works ..... i am a so called "vet" .... it doesnt kill like hammers ... but it kills .... shoot me down on this .... half done pc may not but fully done it willl.
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
Poison creeper does literally nothing for you, it just dies all the time.
Actually, as I already detailed in this thread, Poison Creeper does, in fact, do "literally something" for you.

1 point in Poison Creeper can be used to prevent all monster healing and to tank super-tough monsters such as ancients. Much more useful than one more point in Spirit Wolves or something.



 

Verashiden

Diabloii.Net Member
bogie- Correction, they would need 10k life to survive. Keep in mind that summons only have a PvP penalty of 1/2, not 1/7 (?). That's what makes a twinked grizzly so dangerous.

However, making a "dueler" like that is despicable and ruins the good name of Druids. I'd advise against it. Also, that bear has REALLY slow FHR. You have to hope for a lucky hit to take out any sort of melee character and casters will just rape it unless they do something stupid like tele on top of it...
 

bogie

Diabloii.Net Member
Summons only get 1/2 PvP penalty and not the regular 1/6 o_O (didnt know).
BTW, i dont see anything "despicable" about it...... unless you are sitting in town recasting (which as you pointed out wont really work because of fhr, so you would have to actively tele ontop of them to kill). If your actually out there teleing and fighting, I think its fine, its no different than any other class (you going to start calling necro summancer who happen to duel evil as well???).
 
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