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Ranger Index Guide/Info Writing HELP

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Raven-Hood, Feb 12, 2004.

  1. Raven-Hood

    Raven-Hood IncGamers Member

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    Ranger Index Guide/Info Writing HELP

    Hey as all of you hopefully know, the ranger index is not finished and has not made progress for a while.

    This is due to main reasons:

    The first is that, I don't have time nor do I want to write all of the guides. I would appreciate if all of you ranger experts would step up and help out the index.

    The index needs an indepth hireling guide, this would require analysis of each hireling offered in the game (there are 12 hirelings in total I believe), on how each hireling would be used with each of the main ranger builds. The index is not looking for a hireling reccomendation that says so and so hireling is better then so and so hireling. On the other hand, an equip guide for hirelings can say that this set up is better then that set up, but the general ranger audience is not going to be rich.

    The index needs an indepth single player ranger walkthrough, this would be on normal and hell difficulty. (Nightmare if you want, but its not as important) The walkthrough on normal would be for those not sure if they want a ranger or not but definately willing to try the game with them. Therefore an indepth walkthrough of all acts/quests and untwinked find what you use gear reccomendations. It would also be based on a ranger that can solo through the normal single player game, do not reccomend auras like fanatisicm which are not available untill around act 4ish, and make sure to describe how to use all of the auras that are available as well as make sure the walkthrough can help out each of the ranger builds without becoming vague.

    The index could also use an indepth bow analysis, with both strategy and numbers being used. Notice the bows should only be compared using figures like frame rates, but should be analysed using all the factors the author of this future reference can think of. Good luck heh. :thumbsup:

    The index needs someone to repost Suryl's All Ranger Team Guide.

    The index is open to tables/graphs if anyone has any they want to share.

    The index is open to other ranger guides as well.


    All Guides will be examined by the Paladin Forum Community for grammar/context/strategy issues so that they are perfected for the index so make sure to put in all the effort you can


    Anyways, is anyone interested in helping out the index with a guide or two?
    Yes, I do realize it is a LOT to ask for, but the more the merrier :lol: . Also looking for suggestions on what else the index could use.

    Raven-Hood
     
  2. Dreamsmith

    Dreamsmith IncGamers Member

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    I am, unfortunately I've been so busy the last few weeks I haven't even had time to pop in here and post from time to time! But I should have some more time in the near future...
     
  3. Any1

    Any1 Banned

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    I might be interested in doing some bow/crossbow number crunching. However, I'm fairly busy this week. Do you think an analysis of unique (upgraded when applicable) and set bows is what you're looking for? I'm thinking it might initially concentrate on damage per second for each "commonly used" bow/crossbow, using different auras, assuming a standard investment in Dexterity.

    Are you looking for a more strategy-based approach to bow analysis?
     
  4. Dreamsmith

    Dreamsmith IncGamers Member

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    I would definately like to see that. I started crunching some numbers the other day while discussing with Raven-Hood about HS vs. Fanaticism, coming up with this:

    Code:
    Level: 99, Strength: 134, Dexterity: 281, Vitality: 160, Energy: 15
    Windforce damage:       135-2111
    Windforce w/Fanaticism: 265-4151
    Windforce w/Holy Shock: 136-6042
    
    Level: 99, Strength: 134, Dexterity: 221, Vitality: 220, Energy: 15
    Windforce damage:       114-1783
    Windforce w/Fanaticism: 244-3823
    Windforce w/Holy Shock: 115-5714
    
    But of course this is way incomplete -- it needs to be extended for all the auras, and then done for all reasonable bow choices. I was going to do that but I just haven't had time.

    Incidently, what do you consider "a standard investment in Dexterity"? I did it twice above you see, first going with my own target stats, but then the second time because I realize most players put more into Vitality than I do. If I was going to do all the bows, I think I'd just run them all from a 221 Dex and mention that of course you'll get different results from different Dex scores. It may not be important, however. When I did the above testing, I wasn't sure if a higher Dex would help Fanaticism or not -- in fact it doesn't, you'll notice that regardless of dex, Fanaticism added 130-2040 damage (the damage boost must be calculated pre-Dex-mod), so if instead of listing total damage as I did you just listed added damage, Dex would be irrelevant.

    Or maybe do something like this:

    Code:
    Windforce damage, Dex 221: 114-1783
    Windforce damage, Dex 281: 135-2111
    Fanaticism damage:       + 130-2040
    Holy Shock damage:       +   1-3931
    
    Of course, this is all assuming 20 in the skills and synergies, and level 99 (Windforce does more damage if you're higher level, and I was trying to be as generous as possible to Fanaticism, since the point I was arguing was that even in the best possible situation, Fanaticism really kinda sucks for damage output -- even Sanctuary only roughly pulls even with HS). To be really complete, we ought to include +skills items and lower level considerations (e.g. suppose you're only level 75, but have +8 on all your offensive aura skills). This gets really hairy really quick. But including stats at slvl 25 and slvl 30 should at least be considered, and maybe for bows that vary damage based on level (like Windy or Burrito Cannon), do maybe clvl 50 and 75 as well as 99...
     
  5. Dreamsmith

    Dreamsmith IncGamers Member

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    Ugh -- and add on top of all that... IAS! Now I remember why I didn't run off and do the whole analysis already...

    That's when it gets really fun. Again, I'd suggested doing it three times -- once with no IAS, once with 35% IAS (which you get from Fanaticism, or relatively modest IAS gear), and once with 70% IAS (Fanaticism and modest IAS gear, or just serious IAS gear).

    Have fun! :lol:
     
  6. Raven-Hood

    Raven-Hood IncGamers Member

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    I was looking for both numbers and strategy, you two could do it as a team even if you guys want. Put the dex at 250 for the testing, and assume there would be a 100 or so damage difference depending on the dex varying.

    Ias is not important considering if bow A is faster then bow B, then bow A with ias equip, is going to be faster then bow B. Unless for some reason bow A doesn't hit the break pointm and bow B does, and they end up the same speed.

    Anyways, if you guys want to do a guide on bow damage with numbers and strategy... I don't want to hear how holy shock is better then fanat Dreamsmith :D ), then thats fine. Just make sure to also include holy freeze, and holy fire (with the fact that it can do double damage).

    BTW- there are more ranger users out there who can help out, come on!!

    Raven-Hood

    (email me at [email protected] if you have questions)
     
  7. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger IncGamers Member

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    Raven,

    I will volunteer whatever help I can give on this. I am still in the process of tweaking my ranger builds but I think I am starting to get the hang of it.
    And yes, I could do a walk thru on stats and such on how to do an untwinked ranger. My Storm-Ranger(great name by BTW) has reached lvl 89 now and is pretty much where I want him to be. He is handing out about 3.3k damage with shock and about 2.3k with freeze max. Not too shabby for a pally with a bow!(To all those who laughed at me in the games).
    As far as gear-wise, I use only what I can find/pick-up while playing. My gear would probably be laughed at by most but it works for me and would certainly work for a more experienced pally-builder.
    Also, I am in the process of building another ranger with Fana and Shock as main attacks. He is only like lvl 10 or so but I think that this could be the best of both worlds, elemental and ripping fast physical. Sweet!

    -PallyRanger
     
  8. Dreamsmith

    Dreamsmith IncGamers Member

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    Not really, no. Because of the non-linear way IAS tables are structured, the speed differential between two bows narrows considerably, sometimes even disappearing entirely, depending on the IAS. If Bow A is a Shadow bow and bow B is a Hydra bow, bow A is 2 fps faster than bow B with no IAS, but it's exactly the same speed at 35% IAS. This is something the fanatical ranger will most definately be interested in knowing, and significantly alters the damage per second equation. Even when bow A does remain faster than bow A, the fps gap drops (for example, at 70% IAS, bow A is again faster than bow B, but only by one frame).

    The biggest problem with ignoring IAS is non-IAS numbers are the most distorted by bow speed, and yet they're the most unrealistic, as everyone who hasn't just started a new char probably has *some* IAS. The problem with picking any particular number, however, is that you're going to distort the figures depending on breakpoint (for example, 35% IAS lets the Hydra bow hit its breakpoint but falls just short of the Shadow bow's breakpoint -- someone using a Shadow bow is unlikely to have gone to 35% IAS and stopped, they'll have gotten to 40%).

    Just looking over the table, I think 50% IAS may be the closest one can get to something that isn't terribly unfair to one class of bow or another by being just a couple points short of its next breakpoint. If one had to run the numbers without using differing IAS for each bow, that might be the one number that would be fairest to all.

    Most fair, however, would be to consider each bow individually and vary the number slightly based on this. I'd say assume a ranger has about 35-45% IAS on his other equipment, add the IAS of the bow, then bump the number up a bit if you're just short of the bow's next IAS breakpoint. That would probably give the most realistic numbers. And remember to add the additional 35% IAS when doing the Fanaticism numbers.
     
  9. Raven-Hood

    Raven-Hood IncGamers Member

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    dude you might think you are disagreeing with me, but you just said what I said with way tomuch detail. Make a table or something for the index, but there is no way I am reading an article on the ias lol. Way to much math for me, sorry.

    Raven-Hood
     

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