Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Rabies and Fireclaws blockability Plus summon prebuffing i

Discussion in 'Druid' started by mepersoner, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. mepersoner

    mepersoner IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Rabies and Fireclaws blockability Plus summon prebuffing

    First test:

    Level 77 werebear using fireclaws (5100 AR) vs. level 71 unshifted druid using whistans (75% block, 194 defense) and no other gear. Out of 21 attacks, 14 missed.

    Same werebear vs. the same druid. This time, the druid uses gloves with 197 defense. Out of 10 attacks, 0 missed.

    Conclusion: Fireclaws is blockable, it doesn't show the animation for blocking.

    Second test:
    Level 85 werewolf using rabies vs. the druid above using whistans.
    Out of 25 attacks, 20 missed.
    Level 85 werewolf using vs. the above druid using the gloves, 2 out of 20 attacks missed.

    Conclusion: Rabies is blockable, it doesn't show the animation for blocking. When it DOES show the animation for blocking, the poison damage for rabies still hits.

    Test #3:
    The above druid using no gear (no gloves, no whistans).

    Level 11 spirit wolf. His attacks did the following damage:
    4
    3
    4
    3
    4
    4
    3
    4
    I then took off 6 + skills. The wolf had still been prebuffed at level 11, I took off gear until spirit wolves were level 5. The spirit wolf did the following damage:
    2
    1
    2
    1
    2
    1
    1
    1
    1
    Conclusion: Prebuffing wolves doesn't work. I've run this test in 1.09 with grizzly and had the same results. So it's pretty definite down the line for wolves and the bear. You can't prebuff them for extra damage.

    -Mepersoner, Furry Admin
     
  2. ~Kazama Fury~

    ~Kazama Fury~ IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    hmmm, i am glad you've finally done your own testing because you didnt believe me when i said both were blockable just cause you guys were always counting on the block animation and sound. anyways, theres no point in playing the "i told you so" game, your results came up the same as mine when i tested it a few months ago. so yeah. made d2 druid 1.10 history.
     
  3. mepersoner

    mepersoner IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    I always just said "we need more testing with less variables." :p

    Well, I said that after you brought up the results you had, before that I was just saying they were unblockable. :p

    Of course, it's good to know I was right about the summons.

    -Mepersoner, Furry Admin
     
  4. Kirsty

    Kirsty The Order of Dii Guild Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    I did a raven test.
    Level 1 raven using +4 skills.
    I put on all 5 skills and summoned 5 ravens. Then I removed my +skills gear and the ravens stayed... so you can have 5 ravens as a prebuff (if that can be considered a prebuff anyway).
    Now for the amount of hits tests.

    Test 1a: level 1 raven summoned should give 12 attacks.
    9 hits and 3 misses
    8 hits and 4 misses
    9 hits and 3 misses

    Test 1b: level 3 raven summoned with +skills kept on should give 14 hits.
    12 hits and 2 misses
    11 hits and 3 misses
    13 hits and 1 misses

    Test 1c: level 5 raven summoned with +skills kept on should give 16 hits.
    12 hits and 4 misses
    10 hits and 6 misses
    13 hits and 3 misses


    Test 2: level 3 raven summoned with +skills removed should give only 12 hits if prebuff doesn't work, should give 14 hits if prebuff does work.
    13 hits and 1 miss
    12 hits and 2 misses
    10 hits and 4 misses

    Seems prebuff works

    Test 3: level 5 raven summoned with +skills removed should give only 12 hits if prebuff doesn't work, should give 16 hits if prebuff does work.

    13 hits and 1 miss
    12 hits and 2 misses
    16 hits

    Very strange, doesn't seem to work at all times but sometimes only gives half of the prebuff. Why is this appearing?

    Test 5: level 10 raven summoned with +skills removed should give 21 hits.

    21 hits
    20 hits and 1 miss
    18 hits and 3 misses

    Very strange. so I retested and retested and added criteria....
    The final conclusion seemed to be that raven prebuff in town and removal of +skills seems to keep the buffs (maximum amount of hits and chance to blind as well), whereas removal of +skills outside of town seems to destroy the buffs (maximum amount of hits but seemingly not the chance to blind) or partial buffs.
    The amount of ravens you have never die out unless they reach the maximum amount of hits.

    Can someone confirm this or am I weirding out here? Maybe it means revision of the wolf/grizzly findings as well.
     
  5. Cantos

    Cantos The Order of Dii Guild Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    42
    I'm going insane. I was smacking pansy's mean pala yesterday with fireclaws. I'm sure I saw some blocking animations ...
     
  6. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Messages:
    21,802
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    467
    how does prebuffing affect the passive bonuses?
     
  7. ~Kazama Fury~

    ~Kazama Fury~ IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    doing that against a pally, for blocking testing purposes wouldnt be a good idea, but i know what ya mean. :)

    well dueling pansy's pala, u dont really know if uve actually hit or not with all his gumpy slide and desync galore.
     
  8. Strid

    Strid IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    If you run out of mana, then you will attack with the standard attack, thus causing blocking 75% of the time.
     
  9. mepersoner

    mepersoner IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    You didn't read the first post, I can tell!

    -Mepersoner, Furry Admin
     
  10. Strid

    Strid IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    They don't do that on Europe!!! :p
     
  11. Voice

    Voice IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255

    Well ravens can be killed by stuff like sorce's ice armor . im not sure what else but i know sorces cold armor kills them.
     
  12. mepersoner

    mepersoner IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    I believe thorns and damage returned can also kill them IIRC.

    -Mepersoner, Furry Admin
     
  13. Pent

    Pent IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    334
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    is that really what is the important question here? ;)
     
  14. Kirsty

    Kirsty The Order of Dii Guild Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    yes, all damage to attacker mods can hurt ravens but that wasn't the real point, just a nice addition.
    If you summon 5 ravens and remove the +skills the only thing that will kill them off is if they have done all their hits or if you recast a level of the raven skill that sets a maximum below the amount of ravens you have already flying around.

    So if you set the raven level to 5 using +4skills you can cast 5 ravens, removing +4 skills will keep the ravens.
    If you recast a level 1 raven the other 5 disappear (1 disappears because you recast, the others because your current raven level has a maximum of 1, which is the one you recast). You'l have 1 raven on the field.

    Another example is that if you set the raven level to 5 using +skills and cast 5 ravens, removing +2 skills will again keep the ravens. If you recast with the remaining raven level of 3 then 3 ravens disappear, 2 stay and the 3rd that is allowed is recasted by you. You'll have 3 ravens on the field.

    Now.. time to do my dodgy tests again.


    PS: minor note. If you have 0 points in raven and the skill is given by your druid pelt then all cast ravens will die when you level up. Same with other summons if I recall that correctly.
     
  15. electricblue

    electricblue IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    i am getting the impression that you guys don't heed what i say or read what is written in my guide.

    http://www.geocities.com/welett/attckfind.htm

    its been quite some time since i published this..
     
  16. mepersoner

    mepersoner IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    That wasn't there when I read it, I don't check for updates on a regular basis. :p Then again, yours doesn't really provide any numbers either. O-o

    This has been something everyone has considered a possibility for awhile now because it was brought up by Kaz (before you) and I said I'd test it, and then I finally did. :p


    -Mepersoner, Furry Admin
     
  17. electricblue

    electricblue IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    98
    ah, ok then :)

    a note:
    after kaz brought this subject, I had put my findings about a week later, so I think its been 2 months since I publish this?

    an advise: read my guide with updates :)
     
  18. Kirsty

    Kirsty The Order of Dii Guild Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    778
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Raven retest... Iffy results.

    level 1: 12 hits
    level 2: 13 hits
    level 3: 14 hits
    level 4: 15 hits
    level 5: 16 hits

    Tested on:
    - act 1 carver packs
    - act 1 skeleton archers
    - act 1 fleshhunters

    Used: base level raven of 1. Increased/decreased effective level using a +2 summon amulet and a +2 summon circlet

    The overall consensus is that ravens are prebuffed and stay that way....
    However, you can see a lot of strange unbuffing, partial buffing and postbuffing going on which I thought could be explained by ravens adjusting to their current level over time or by consistent miscounting.

    I redid the tests after a prolonged waiting period (5 minutes) to see if skill readjustment of the raven took place, but I didn't see many readjustments after all (20 tests, 2 observed adjustments and 1 partial adjustment).

    I did every test in duplicate using several criteria and in the end I got sick of the inconsistency and let my boyfriend do the same tests to see if it was truly caused by me or by the game. His results are equally strange.
    See below... does anyone have an idea of what's going on?

    Code:
    cast in town
    
    removed in town   removed out of town   added in town   added out of town
    
    +2 amulet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    3->1   13/1         12/2               1->3   11/1            11/1
    3->1   13/1         11/3               1->3    8/4            13/1*
    
    bf
    3->1   12/2         11/1*              1->3   12/2*           10/2
    3->1   12/2         11/3               1->3   12/2*           11/1
    
    +2 amulet +2circlet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    5->1   12/2**       13/3               1->5   14/0**          11/1
    5->1   12/2**       14/2               1->5    9/3            11/3**
    
    bf
    5->1   14/0**       12/4               1->5   10/2            12/0
    5->1   11/3**       14/2               1->5   12/0            16/0*
            !?!?!
    
    +2 circlet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    5->3   14/0*        12/4               3->5   11/3            11/3
    5->3   16/0         13/3               3->5   13/1            14/2*
    
    bf
    5->3   14/2         15/1               3->5   16/0*           15/0**
    5->3   14/1**       13/3               3->5    9/5             8/6
    
    +2 amulet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    5->3   13/1*        13/3               3->5   14/2*           13/1
    5->3   15/0**       11/3*              3->5   13/1            12/2
    
    bf
    5->3   15/1         12/2*              3->5   14/0            16/0*
    5->3   14/2         12/4               3->5   12/2            14/0
    
         *=unbuff     *=unbuff                  *=postbuff      *=postbuff
        **=partial   **=partial                **=partial      **=partial
    
    
    cast out of town
    
    removed in town   removed out of town   added in town   added out of town
    
    +2 amulet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    3->1   12/2         11/1*              1->3    9/3            11/1
    3->1   11/3         12/2               1->3    9/3            12/0
    
    bf
    3->1   14/0         13/1               1->3   11/1            11/1
    3->1   12/2         12/0*              1->3   10/2            12/2*
    
    +2 amulet +2circlet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    5->1   14/0**       11/3**             1->5   12/2**          11/1
    5->1   14/2         11/1*              1->5   12/4            11/1
    
    bf
    5->1   12/2**       13/3               1->5   14/0**           7/5
    5->1   14/2         11/5               1->5   12/4*           12/0
    
    +2 circlet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    5->3   14/2         12/4               3->5   12/3**          11/5*
    5->3   13/3         15/1               3->5   15/1*           14/0
    
    bf
    5->3   14/0*        13/3               3->5   15/1*           14/2*
    5->3   12/4         14/2               3->5   13/1            14/0
    
    +2 amulet
    lvl   hit/miss     hit/miss            lvl   hit/miss        hit/miss
    5->3   13/3         12/2*              3->5   13/3*           12/2
    5->3   14/0*        13/2**             3->5   13/3*           14/2*
    
    bf
    5->3   14/0*        14/2               3->5   12/2            14/0
    5->3   13/1*        16/0               3->5   14/0            11/3
    
         *=unbuff     *=unbuff                  *=postbuff      *=postbuff
        **=partial   **=partial                **=partial      **=partial
     
  19. FenrisWulf

    FenrisWulf IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    42
    @Kirsty:
    Considering that you completely dominated my tests in volume, I'll defer to your results. :) Though they don't make much sense to me, either...

    I'll play around with it some more. I seem to recall (from when I was playing around with Summons when 1.10 first came out) that there was some delay before Summon removal (when you dropped +skills) would take effect, so you could be right that there's simply a funny timing issue going on, or perhaps some event that triggers a Summon check that isn't immediately obvious.
     
  20. mepersoner

    mepersoner IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,531
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Nice weird results. :/

    -Mepersoner, Furry Admin
     

Share This Page