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Quick noob questions

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by emilsson, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Quick noob questions

    Hello! This is my first post here. Please help me answer those questions:

    A) In single player, off line, there is a fix to get those new ladder only rune words, such as Pride. That fix changes a file in the Diablo 2 folder I suspect, so will battle.net detect that change, and ban me? Must I undo the fix everytime I want to go online?

    B) Which is the best fix, and where can I download it?

    C) If a might merc uses a might rune word, will the might auras add upp level wise? What will happen?

    D) I have a commandomancer. And 90% of the kills are done by skellies, revives and mages, the rest 10% of the kills are done by CE. I have CE lvl 37, but hardly use it. How many % of the kills are done by CE, for a pure fishymancer? I always revive and let them do the dirty work. Maybe I should just let the skellies do the initial dirty work and always CE?

    E) What happened with the old build, Skelliemancer? Why is it called Fishymancer today?
     
  2. sylecn

    sylecn IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    for A) and B) It depends on what "fix" you are using. If you are using the RWM mod from SPF, it will do no harm to battle.net.
    Start the game using the original exe, not the shortcut you created, and you are good to go.

    Anything beyond RWM is out of my knowledge.

    C) they will not added up. I can't remember whether the game cycle between the two or the higher level one wins.
    D) do CE after first 2-3 kills. CE kills much faster than skellies.
    E) because Nightfish made a great guide on this build.

    Hope that helps.
     
  3. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Thanks for your answers. I will try RWM. I want a Pride polearm for my merc. Now I have the Doom runeword on my merc, which gives Holy Freeze lvl 12. Say that HF slows down the monsters 50%, then my skellies hit twice as fast. In effect, HF doubles skellies damage output. So all numbers in the Pet calculator should be doubled. But HF shatters bodies, which is not that a great problem. Only... 5-10% of all bodies are shattered, I believe. That is a small price to pay to double my pet's damage output. But now I also want to try Concentration aura on my merc and see if there is any difference.

    I cheat, so I have a Beast iron golem, which helps me when I level up. I am lvl 92 right now, and have 4 spare skill points. I dont know where to put them. I have
    20 Skeleton Mastery
    20 Raise Skeleton
    20 Mage
    20 CE
    1 point in the rest of the summon tree
    1 point in Teeth
    1 point in Bone armour
    1 point in all curses.

    The thing with mages is that I have already done a heavy investment in skeleton mastery which benefits mages. So it is cheap for me to get strong mages, because I already have 20 skeleton mastery. It is like, if I have studied a language in sixth form school, and then much later choose a language to learn - it is much cheaper if I study the same language as I studied back in school. Because I already did an investment, so it is cheaper than if I start all over again on a new language.



    A question: If I play Open Battlenet, are there game changes compared to if I play Offline? It seems that in open battlenet, there are more bosses and play is more difficult, than if I play offline? Is it true that game is much harder on Open Battlenet than in Offline mode? (I always play "players 8", btw.)
     
  4. Gillsing

    Gillsing IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    I wouldn't say that Holy Freeze doubles the damage output of your skeletons. Sure, compared to the damage output of the monsters, that's true, but that only matters if the monsters kill the skeletons, as the life expectancy of the skeletons would then double, thereby doubling the damage that a skeleton does before it dies and you don't replace it. (Because if you replace the dead skeleton, did it really matter that it died and you had to spend some mana to replace it?) But monsters usually don't kill the skeletons faster than you can replace them, and therefore the Holy Freeze doesn't really help you kill monsters faster, which is what actually doubling the damage would accomplish. (In theory anyway. I haven't used Holy Freeze because I think it uglifies the game something fierce when every monster turns blue.)

    I'd say that Holy Freeze makes the game easier and safer, which could matter a lot in a few situations where your skeletons would otherwise be killed, so I'm not saying it's useless, or not worth the cost of shattering bodies. But when that safety isn't needed, Holy Freeze is useless. Much like using Decrepify isn't better than Amplify Damage if your minions don't need the added safety of slowing the monsters down at the cost of that extra -50% physical resistance.
     
  5. sylecn

    sylecn IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    I want to correct my answer to question C.
    I thought you were asking two might auros from different char.
    For two might auro on the same merc, they may stack nicely, but I'm not sure.
     
  6. XCodes

    XCodes IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    No. Auras from skills and items don't stack, only auras from items.


     
  7. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Thanks for helping a noob like me. :)

    @Gillsing
    I dont agree with you. If HF slows down all enemies to 50%, then my pets attack twice as fast as normal. Which doubles my damage throughput. In other words, all numbers in the pet damage calculator should be doubled. If all enemies get slowed down to 50%. Assume I can attack enemies during 2 seconds, but they can only attack during one second, and the other second they are frozen. This means HF gives far more damage throughput than Concentration.

    HF > Concentration in terms of damage throughput.
     
  8. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Think your maths is a bit wrong there emilsson. Half the attack speed for monsters =/= double damage for your minions.

    With this build, HF will actually slow your killing speed due to corpses being shattered and you not being able to use CE.
     
  9. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    my head explodes
     
  10. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Oh, yes you are right. I was wrong.

    It it not: HF gives me double damage for my pets. But instead it is: in relative terms, my pets do double damage compared to if I not used HF.

    To do double damage, you can increase your attack speed 100%. Or, you could instead slow the enemies down to 50%. It is the same thing. You get the same effect.

    Of course, the best is if you can slow down enemies and also increase your attack speed, then you get not three times higher damage output, but instead four times.



    The reasoning above comes from Sun Tzu, "The Art of War". This book tells about military strategy. Even today it is heavily consulted by businessmen, etc. In the book he says something like "if you steal one sack of grain from the enemy, then it is worth 10 sacks of grain". What does he mean? This is actually very deep.

    Example: If 2 men fights against 2 monsters then it is 2 vs 2. Both sides are equally strong, that is 1:1

    Suppose the 2 men kill one monster. Then it is 2 vs 1 monster. That is 2:1. One side is now 100% stronger than the other side. But this is not optimal, you could get better strength ratio. Suppose you could steal one monster (convert it, control it) then it is suddenly 3 vs 1. And 3v1 is much stronger than 2v1.

    It is always better to decrease the other, and at the same time increase your side. It is far better than just increase your side.





    BTW, what do you think about this Swedish rock band? One song is also is in guitar hero:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZumWV3hjijw
     
  11. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    simply not true
    if you'd said

    "to do double damage relative to the enemies damage to you"

    then yes, but Sun Tzu doesn't play D2, and decreasing the damage you take =/= doing double damage in d2.
     
  12. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Yes this is what I meant. I wrote: "in relative terms, my pets do double damage compared to if I not used HF" - which I meant is the same thing. Thanx for formulating it better. :)

    But still, HF gives more relative damage than concentration.


     
  13. XCodes

    XCodes IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Relative damage in this case doesn't necessarily help. Skeletons regenerate HP so fast that they can take whatever beating comes at them (barring a wound-up pack of frenzytaurs, but there are other ways to deal with them). Besides, skeletons are readily replaced. You should focus on increasing your skeleton's damage output more directly.

    That said, there are exceptions. HF might be a good aura to make use of if you're not using max-power skeletons, such as if you were playing a poison/summon hybrid. In that case, HF would add an extra layer of defense, allowing your skeletons to protect you for significantly longer periods before getting busted up.
     
  14. Elyxthaxzus

    Elyxthaxzus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    yeah too relative for my tastes. Your not really increasing your skellies damage, simply allowing them more time to do the same amount of damage. sort of....the damage ceiling is based on mob health, so in effect your ability to do damage is capped by monster life, irrelevant of the time frame.

    Damage is usually measured by time as a reference. x amount of damage over Y amount of Time. theoretically, if you have unlimited application of damage, then increasing the available time would increase damage, but you again run into the cap of monster health as a constant, with time being unlimited...

    think I lost myself there...

    damage output doesn't increase, damage input decreases. Now Amp and decrep DO increase damage, but reducing the mobs resistance to your damage. same time frame, more damage...
     
  15. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Ok, so if you dont agree with me, let me ask you. How would you formulate, what I am trying to say? Maybe you have a better formulation that we all can agree on?

    I am trying to say: "Relatively speaking, it doesnt matter if you hit twice as fast, or if you slow down the enemy to 50% - it is the same thing". If you dont agree with my formulation, how would you formulate it?
     
  16. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Welcome Newcomer to The Darkness. Grab a brew :guiness: and feel free to raise some corpses.

    When you hit twice as fast you kill the enemy in half the time. This is an obvious decrease in the time it takes you to kill a monster.

    When you slow the enemy down by half it takes him twice as long to kill you. It doesn't affect your kill speed. Your skeletons don't hit harder or faster. They just aren't killed as fast.

    Slowing the enemy down could result in a increase in kill speed if the enemy was able to interrupt your skeletons when they attack. Being slowed would mean that the enemy could interrupt your skeletons less often thus allowing them to do their job faster. But monsters don't interrupt your minions.



     
  17. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    @Mad Mantis
    Thanx for your greeting! Hail to thee! :)

    Ok, I agree with you when you consider the time aspect. You are correct in that. I dont consider the time aspect. In one scenario, I will clear Baal in X time, and in the second scenario it will take twice as long time. But I will still have the same advantage: be double as strong as the enemies.

    But let us consider these scenarios. In what aspect are they equal? Killing power? Damage throughput? Relative damage?
    A) I act twice as fast as everyone else
    B) The rest of the world gets slowed down to 50%.
    The end result is the same: I get two attacks, whereas the enemy gets one hit. It doesnt matter if I hit twice as fast, or if the enemy gets a half attack.

    If I double my body length, or if the rest of the world gets halved in length doesnt matter, I still have the advantage. I will be twice as large. It doesnt matter if I am 4 meter and the rest is 2 meter, or if I am 2m and the rest is 1m. I am twice as large. No matter what scenario.

    But of course, it is best if we could combine both A) and B) at the same time and get four as much as advantage. HF combined with Fanaticism. :) Which I have done. Doom runeword on my might merc, combined with Beast Iron Golem.

    So I dont really think that switching Doom to Pride on my merc, will be better. My pets do something like 30,000 damage/sec now. If we factor in Doom, they do 60.000 damage/sec. If I use Concentration instead, damage will increase from 30.000 damage/sec to something like 40.000. Which is less than 60.000 for Doom.
     
  18. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Its impossible to factor in doom as it doesnt increase your damage. Doom is a bad idea just because of the Holyfreeze shattering corpses. Everything in my necromancer knowledge tells me that less corpses on the ground is a bad idea.
     
  19. Milb

    Milb IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    I understand your analogies but I think you are looking at it the wrong way.

    Yes, in game you may be twice as fast as your enemy, but it is taking you longer to do what you need to do in real time, basically, using HF is far less efficient than using Pride. You'd probably be better off with an Infinity and use CE more, as that is the main strength of a Skellimancer.

    One of the main goals in Diablo is obtaining wealth, and using HF will reduce the efficiency of you doing this, so regardless of how fast you are relative to your foes, you will be playing more slowly and less efficiently than what you could be.

    (I realise this last statement is probably void as I seriously doubt the legitimacy of someone in SP using a Beast IG, but whatever, my point is valid.)
     
  20. emilsson

    emilsson IncGamers Member

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    Re: Quick noob questions

    Ok, maybe "double damage with HF" is wrong formulation. Maybe "my army is twice as powerful with HF" is better? Or, "my army has double the advantage with HF"? Any suggestions on a better formulation?

    The fact is, HF makes my army much more powerful. Everything is slowed down and I can act freely. The risk is much lower, as the enemies are slowed down. If you can act twice as fast as the enemy, then you are much more powerful, than if you dont. You do have a clear advantage, that is a fact.

    What enemies would you prefer to meet? Which is worst? Normal standard enemies that do 40% more damage (concentration aura), or enemies that do double attacks (because they have slowed you down to 50% with HF)? Double hitting enemies are much worse to face, than a harder hitting enemy. Double hitting enemies have a clear advantage and I would avoid those. So, how to describe this advantage? Which formulation? "The risk is lower"?


    (BTW, if I use HF there will be 5-10% fewer corpses than normal. I think. But that is a small price to pay, when my army is "twice as powerful".)
     

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