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Quests without quest log

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by michaeld, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. michaeld

    michaeld Diabloii.Net Member

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    When we get a new quest, such as assemble the Horadric Staff, extra information becomes available in our Quest Log (Q button shortcut), but imagine this extra information wasn't available. Therefore I wonder, what quests are doable from the information you get from the game itself ignoring the information in the quest log? E.g. would you know where to find the staff piece of the Horadric Staff if the exact location wasn't spelled out in the quest log? If there are any in game hints from towns folk or similar to its location I'd really appreciate knowing them. Also are there other quests that becomes much more difficult to complete if you couldn't see your quest log and say you hadn't played this game before?

    Btw. this is a question about Diablo II, I think I am posting it the correct place, but just making sure. Thanks for reading and hopefully participating. ^^
     
  2. peytron

    peytron Diabloii.Net Member

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    I suppose Atma tells you to go into the sewers and kill Radament, where you will find the Horadric Scroll. Cain then tells you the pieces are scattered, so essentially go out and clear everything until you find it.

    The one that always seemed to bug me is the beginning of act 3. As far as I can tell, none of the NPCs give you a quest to head out on. They do not seem to trigger until you kill the first unique monster to find the statue and go back to town.
     
  3. michaeld

    michaeld Diabloii.Net Member

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    My take on the Act 3 Quest 1 is that essentially we now know that Diablo is out there and must be stopped fast, so we just have to go as quickly as possible to stop him, no time for unnecessary side quests, but then we suddenly stumble upon this jade figurine, and at the first opportunity we ask Cain about it, and suddenly Cain tells us about Khalim, etc.

    Though that does not fit well with Act 2 Quest 1, because as far as I recall, we also know Diablo is heading through the desert and we need to catch him, so we should be in too much of a hurry for the Radament side quest.

    About the quest to assemble the horadric staff, you may be correct, but in that case it is a huge difference between knowing exactly where the item is to not knowing at all. In that case I think it is a bit sad they didn't at least include some kind of clue in the in game text somewhere apart from the quest log that states its exact location.
    I could easily imagine someone finding the Head piece if they decide to run through the desert when reaching Lut Gholein, then reaching the end of the desert and decides to explore the first dungeon there, but the Cube and the Staff are located inbetween, and with two extra dungeons in the desert and it not even being certain you'll stumble upon e.g. the Maggot Lair I think it would make the game much more difficult for someone who played through the game for the first time without using the quest log.

    In the case of someone playing through the first time without the quest log, I am wondering if the Khalim quest would be just as difficult (in the sense of lacking information)? From what I can remember, it might be even worse?
     
  4. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I think that with respect to solving riddles, the game is hilariously easy. All you have to do is doing what you are told by the NPCs and the quest log. I didn't have to figure out anything at all on my own when playing D2 for the first time.
     
  5. michaeld

    michaeld Diabloii.Net Member

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    Yes I agree Krischan, but imagine you for some reason couldn't consult the quest log. What quests do you think would become much more cumbersome to complete?
     
  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I almost missed the golden bird quest in act 3 because I didn't talk to Meshif right after entering act 3 the first time I played the game.
     
  7. michaeld

    michaeld Diabloii.Net Member

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    Here is an example of a case where if you pay attention, you do not get non in-game information from the Quest Log (Q-button): When searching for the true tomb of Tal Rasha, the final quest of Act 2, having defeated the Summoner you learn from the book that you can figure out the true tomb based on the symbols floating in the Arcane Sanctuary where you fought the Summoner. It would be neat if something similar existed for other quests, but I don't think there are any examples of such? Please share if you happen to find any, thanks. ^^
     
  8. Namtar

    Namtar Diabloii.Net Member

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    Act 3 is, unfortunately, much sloppier than the other acts. One could go with the notion that it's known Diablo is out there somewhere, so we'd better go hunt him down. And that's supported by the beginning encounter with him (he appears as a "Dark Wanderer" just outside the docks and summons flesh beasts before laughing and teleporting away). But then the jade statue quest pops up. The quest itself is silly and could easily have been replaced with better content. And it ends with Cain lightly chiding the player character to focus on the true reason for being here. He then gives the next quest, which he was withholding for no reason whatsoever.

    Anyway, I think that almost all quests in the game are easy enough to accomplish with a simple program of...

    1. Go everywhere. Touch every object that can you can possibly interact with (especially portals and objects nearby where quest items dropped). Explore every corner of the map and leave no stone unturned.
    2. Kill everything that can be killed.
    3. Pick up every item. Keep quest items with you at all times.
    4. Talk to every NPC whenever you're in town.
    And you could get away with doing far less than that if you're halfway paying attention.

    There are a few quests that require actually doing something outside killing everything, picking everything up, and talking to NPCs...
    • Opening the portal to Tristram requires that you get the Scroll of Inufuss, talk to Akara, and then go back to the Cairn Stones and touch them. You don't actually need to examine the scroll or the quest log. And you can touch the stones in whatever order you want, so long as you keep touching them until they all light up.
    • Creating the Horadric Staff requires you to put both pieces in the Cube. Cain does tell you how to do it, but you do have to actually follow his instructions.
    • Technically, opening the passage to Duriel does require you to actually select the Horadric Staff in your inventory to put in the slot thingy. The game makes it pretty obvious even if you ignore your quest log and what Cain was telling you, so I'm not sure how much this requirement matters.
    • Creating Khalim's Will requires another "put the right quest items in the cube, then use the cube" scenario. Cain mentions what you need to do multiple times, but I guess you could ignore him and get stuck.
    • Breaking the Compelling Orb requires you to equip Khalim's Will. Again, if you don't listen to what Cain tells you and don't access your quest log, you wouldn't know to do this.
    • Destroying Mephisto's Soulstone requires you to equip the Hellforge Hammer. Just touching the Forge puts the stone on it and lights it up, but you do need to know to equip the hammer. The one that the boss guarding the forge dropped when you killed him.
    • Freeing Anya does require talking to her, then talking to Malah to get the potion, then talking to her again. They both tell you what to do, but I guess you could ignore them and ignore you quest log and miss it.
    • Defeating the Ancients does specifically you require that you not use enter a Town Portal on the Arreat Summit. You've got to kill all three in one go. This is different from most boss fights in the game, so you could mess it up, I guess.
    Even those are pretty easy to work through and don't absolutely rely on the quest log. Everything else I can think of is even more straightforward.

    Obviously the Secret Cow Level and other bonus endgame content like the Pandemonium Event don't use the quest log.
     
  9. peytron

    peytron Diabloii.Net Member

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    If I remember correctly, in the original version the quest screen did not tell you the true tomb and you had to either figure it out by listening to the dialogue or clear every tomb. The only similar quest I can think of is looking for "the book" in the Kurast temples, since I could never remember which one it is in. I don't think this quest pops up at all from the dialogue until you find it either.
     
  10. michaeld

    michaeld Diabloii.Net Member

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    @Namtar

    I don't disagree with your point about ignoring talking with NPC's, but to elaborate on my original intend of the thread, I was considering playing through the game without using the Quest Log and only using the available information within the game, such as NPC dialogue and similar.
    To keep in line with the horadric staff example, I would know to search for it, but I wouldn't know where, so I hoped that perhaps some in-game dialogue would help reveal the locations, but so far I haven't found any from the NPC's at least. Therefore ignoring NPC's is kind of the opposite of what I was going for here, but none the less I definitely agree with your opinion.

    I also agree if one does a full clear, most (all?) of the game would definitely be solvable without looking at the quest log, and I hope you will accept my opinion that I find it a bit clumsy or tedious (I am not the best with words) having to clear everything, due to lack of information. I have done full clears in the past, btw. and I don't mind them, with the right characters they can feel tremendous fun even.

    Thanks for acknowledging my take on Act 3, which is I guess more of a fiction of mine than the reality of the game, you're absolutely correct that Cain should just give the information straight away, or at least elaborate why he didn't, such as e.g. saying he had spoken with Ormus or something similar.

    @peytron
    I have played 1.00, and I don't recall this was the issue, but I have known about looking for the missing symbol in the Arcane Sanctuary for many years, so perhaps I simply didn't notice.
    The black book in Kurast is an interesting example, because here the Quest Log actually doesn't tell anything the in-game dialogue didn't already state I believe, we only know the book is in one of the temples. Sadly it is always the same temple, but we only know so because we have already found it once. For a new player they have to search at least a couple of temples. Too bad they didn't randomize the location (in my opinion).

    -------------------------------------------------

    Anyway, so far I believe there is no in-game dialogue that specifies the exact location of:
    Act 1 Quest 4, the location of the Countess
    Act 2 Quest 2, the location of each element of the Horadric Staff (the head piece is probably the object that one is most likely to simply stumble upon)
    Act 3 Quest 3, same principle as with the Horadric Staff, only it is Khalim's part this time

    Perhaps others? E.g. the Black Book and the Blade to reactivate the protections against evil are examples I am uncertain of.

    ------------------------------------------------

    There have also been examples of new players who got stuck various places, I only recall once reading about a guy who couldn't get out of Stony Field. However it is my opinion the Cain Quest is especially well explained both in in-game dialogue and when it comes to the Quest Log, so unless it was different in earlier versions of the game, which I hadn't noticed if it was, then I can only imagine one gets stuck if one e.g. doesn't know English.

    I myself got kind of stuck on the Act 5 Barbarian Rescue Quest, only because I didn't know all the trapped Barbarians were at the same area, so I pressed onward and couldn't understand I didn't encounter anyone to rescue.

    Then there are the examples in this thread, such as the Bird, and it is definitely a quest I can see someone miss, because in at least one version of the game you can actually miss the intended unique / champion creature (I know, because I did when I was much younger, but I knew about the quest already so I backtracked). I was fortunately enough not to miss it on my first playthrough though, I think.

    Thanks for all the input so far!
     
  11. peytron

    peytron Diabloii.Net Member

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    They do tell you the Countess is in the tower. Granted it doesn't say which area the tower is in, but since there is only one tower I think that one is okay.

    Cain does tell you to put all three pieces in the cube with the flail. It doesn't say where to find the pieces though, only that you need to transmute them all to smash the orb. I guess the idea is the same as the Horadric Staff, go out and kill everything until you find the specific pieces.
     
  12. Namtar

    Namtar Diabloii.Net Member

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    My impression is that those quests were originally designed to be scavenger hunts anyway. I think that Blizzard originally wanted the player to explore the various areas and seek out those quest items. Putting notes about their locations into the quest menu seems like an afterthought.

    There is the specific case of the Viper Amulet. Drognan drops the hint in dialogue that the anomalous solar eclipse is the work of claw vipers, which informs the player to investigate the Valley of the Snakes to put a stop to their ritual. So even without the quest log, you know there's some unspecified quest thing in that area of the map.

    This is another example of Act III being sloppy. The NPC dialogue is vague enough to make it another scavenger hunt quest, and the quest log narrows it down to seven possible dungeons (Disused Fane, Ruined Temple, Forgotten Temple, Forgotten Reliquary, Disused Reliquary, Ruined Fane, Sewers) within the Kurast Bazaar, Upper Kurast, and the Kurast Causeway. But the book is always in the Ruined Temple, which renders the whole puzzle/search aspect null.
     

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