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Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Norre, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Hey.

    After finding different answers on a couple of threads (i have far from checked all of them,, i confess to that) i have put togheter a fun litte summonmancer build, but i am wondering if d2 will allow it to work.:scratchchin:

    The main skills i will be using is ofcourse Raise Skeleton.

    But then for lulz i will be using the Act2 might merc using: Pride, Dream and Bramble, this will give him the 4 auras: Might (duh.) Concentration, Holy Shock and finaly Thorns.
    And my Necro will be using Faith (or Beast but most probably Faith) which adds Fanaticism.

    Now i wonder if there is a limit on the numbers of auras on Raised Skeletons? Will these 5 auras stack on them?

    And when using the Faith bow on my necro there is a 10% chance to reanimate enemys as "Returned". do they benefit from the auras aswell, and what is the stats of a Returned? Also do Returned follow you if you use Teleport from Enigma like other summons?

    Thanks in Advance!
     
  2. HuggaBear

    HuggaBear IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Holy shock won't work, it will only be on your merc (and it's negligible anyway in all honesty).

    I did this in v1.12 last year sometime (probably about now tbh). Bramble is ineffectual since the amount of damage enemies do is minimal compared to their health, a fortitude or something like that is better since it aids the merc...

    Also I used a pride recently and suffered because of the cham rune, it freezes enemies which loses corpses, slowing CE and of course raising minions...



    So it's do-able, I did it before certainly, but it isn't that great...


    I don't think the returned do follow you when you tele (not sure they follow you at all, don't they just wander around and attack enemies?)


    So, it can be done but holy shock won't stack and it's not a fantastic build, there are better options for your merc :)
     
  3. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    of course i know its better options (which are alot cheaper if i may add..) than this, but it felt like it would be fun to pump up mass auras. I have already tried the boring cookie-cutter Fishymancer, so wanted something newish.

    Also regarding Pride, is it about 100% shatter when he kills them? I mean if its just every third/fourth corpse then i can live with it since a lvl 20 concentration aura (if im lucky...) is 345% more dmg per skeleton and even if i only get a lvl 16 thats 285%, i honestly though that my necro would actualy benefit from this particular piece xD

    And regarding the Returned, i have never used/seen anyone use them so i basicly have no idea what they are xD i fail to find any real stats, only that they have aprox 100 max dmg in lvl 85 areas (from a non-legitimate source)
    If they would benefit from the auras i have then they might actualy do something.
    And the final question, if i have Faith equipped, do i need to kill them with the bow or would a corpse explosion leave a room filled with Returned aswell?

    Thanks for the tip though!
     
  4. XCodes

    XCodes IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    345% looks good, but it's really not. That's only applying to the base damage your skeletons are dealing. So, basically, the %ED on your Raise Skeleton skill, the %ED on your merc's Might aura, and the %ED on Pride all simply add together instead of multiplying, so Pride will end up giving you about 1000% ED instead of 650% ED (with exact numbers depending on +skills).

    What's more, when a frozen enemy dies it pretty much always shatters. If your Merc is carrying Pride, you'll have to wait for your skeletons to make a corpse while the Merc is shattering the ones he's killing. Granted that goes a bit faster with Concentration aura, but it's still not as fast as the Merc using a weapon that doesn't freeze.

    Neither Beast nor Faith are very good necro weapons. Their %ED to your skeletons is negligible, even compared to Pride, and their ATR bonus, while nice, isn't enough on it's own to justify the aura. The +attack speed is also mediocre because regardless of how fast they can swing, skeletons will pause 15 frames between attacks anyway.

    If you have Faith equipped, I'm pretty sure you need to kill them with the bow. That said, Returned don't do much. They don't follow you even if you teleport, and your auras won't affect them, so even if you blow everything up with CE it's highly unlikely that the Returned potentially generated will even do anything to help.

    Thorns aura has problems, but it's not necessarily bad. You just need a ridiculously high level in order to get some use out of it. The best way to do that would probably be to you yourself equip Edge and Bramble for a level 36 Thorns aura and level 13 Spirit of Barbs (1940% damage return if my math is right). Then with Amp Damage, your skeletons will reflect some 1500-3000 damage on every attack. If you don't want to do that, then get a Rogue merc and equip the two on her. You'll lose the Spirit of Barbs, but that's not a huge loss at all.
     
  5. maakshif

    maakshif IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    last ladder I did something similar, but I used a last wish/spirit on the necro with an act 1 faith merc...raised skellies and mages with leoric/homon...pretty much killed everything in the game easily and quickly

    as for the reanimates they don't follow when you tele or go through wps...they just wander around and disappear eventually
     
  6. sorcees

    sorcees IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    I would put enchant on them, from deamon limb or from a dedicated enchanter (i have one on my second account on my laptop with lvl 52 enchant).
     
  7. HuggaBear

    HuggaBear IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Unless they're cold immune they WILL shatter, it's a freeze effect, not a cold one so the monster will shatter unless the freeze has no effect.
    In hell and so on it isn't TOO bad, since there's more than enough cold immunes (eg in the cold plains the dark hunters) around for summons and in nm/normal you should be able to drop 1 or 2 for a skellie, but it's still slowing you down tons because of the lack of corpses for CE.

    Auramancers can be fun though, I got 5 on mine and it was a good laugh :p Iron golem can net you another aura (insight if you're on ladder is a good idea, it's pretty cheap).

    If it's just for fun, then have fun :p


     
  8. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Ah yes, Iron golem. I almost forgot that fella! That opens some bridges.
    But wont a Iron golem die rather often? i feel i need to recast clay-golem more than i want to as of now (dont have perfect gear yet though, running with a mere +5 skills due to my MF XD).

    And yes, this is a fun build xD ill run around in random areas with some 3-400 MF aswell as playing some with friends. Im fully aware this wont be optimal xD just hoping it will be viable;P

    Soooo, no pride then :weep: maybe there's another way to get conc aura
    *googles* (btw im ignoring ur statement on the +%ED, just so you know xD)

    Well, im considering using beast/faith as an on switch weapon, just for the aura when i have already raised my skellys, which makes me wonder, will the skeletons get weaker due to the missing +skills from Arm of King Leoric or will they be as strong as they were when summoned when i switch weapon?
    Also if im not mistaken the Fanat aura brings the skeletons from 18-15 frames, aswell as giving them extra damage (the AR bonus is not worth mentioning in most cases), This sounds good for a on-switch weapon.But maybe CtA would be better then?

    And finaly, with all my dream gear (still need a few, but im close) i will have +15 skills (im MFing) + all auras, with 35 in RS and SM the skeletons will have 443-447 pre auras, if they get 1000% ED thats 4430-4470 extra dmg? And if i skip Pride and its 650% it will still be 2879.5-2905.5 if im not mistaken. Sounds high to me even without the increased AS.
    However i might be missing something, could u possibly specify what makes it so bad? I understand pride but not faith.
    And finaly, even if i lose the +skills from my main setup ill still have 30 in SM+RS which results in 309-312 unmodified skeleton damage,

    I though about that, but then i realized i would pretty quickly get very bored with rebuffing my skeletons every.. what? 10 min if highlvled?.. So i decided to try and go more passive.

    Thanks all, and sorry for answering so late, my internet was cut the day after my latest reply :hang:

    EDIT; now that my merc wont be using Pride i found the interesting Crescent Moon, I realise its a no-aura weapon which isnt what i was looking for, but the high level static field looks... yummey... How come you never see this as a optimal weapon for a merc?


     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2010
  9. XCodes

    XCodes IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    No, Raise Skeleton also applies +%ED, and I was including that in my 1000% ED statement. With all 3 damage auras (Might, Fanat, Conc), you're going to wind up a little short of 1500 damage per whack with your skeletons (exactly how short depends on how many +skills your merc has and what level your fanat and pride auras are).

    That said, skeletons don't have any +%AR, that's why Fanaticism could potentially be good for them. If you combine it with something that cuts defense like Inner Sight then they'll have a very high chance to hit, increasing their overall damage output more than just sticking another aura on them. Of course, if you use Conviction from Infinity then they'll have a 95% chance to hit, anyway.
     
  10. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Ah, my bad. And i can start calculating on the final damage output since i havent made any of the runewords yet.
    Also it was to my understanding that the skeletons gain AR per level, and never had any trubble scoring a hit (except perhaps vs ubers or extremely high defense monsters). If this is wrong do you have any idea aprox what their average chance to hit is on a average enemy?


     
  11. XCodes

    XCodes IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Skeletons end up with about 4k-4.5k AR depending on +skills, and most of the dangerous enemies you'll fight will have 1.9k-2.5k defense. That translates into ~2/3 to ~3/4 chance of hitting, again depending on exactly what you're fighting. If you yourself use a faith bow, then that will change to be about 3/4 to 9/10. If you use an A1 Merc with a Faith bow, you'll wind up with a 90+% hit rate against everything. If you pick up Conviction Aura, however, then the -87% defense cut on that aura will make all but the meanest baddies get hit 95% of the time.

    Interestingly enough, monsters that aren't a huge threat offensively also have pathetic defense, so they're pretty much universally weak. The above numbers are for stuff like late act bosses, ubers, frenzytaurs, black souls, Lister's pack, etc.
     
  12. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Ok. So if my setup would look like this
    Might merc *lvl98* Using
    Crescent Moon
    Dragon RW (wonder how often hydra proccs)
    Shako/Delirium RW both equal +2 skill anyway

    My necro using Faith *lvl12*
    Iron golem made out of Pride *lvl16*
    total of 35 SM and RS (using AoKL when raising, im not sure if this works, hope so)
    This would give birth to 13 skeletons with
    443-447 damage
    994 life (hell)
    1055 attack and defense (im guessing attack = AR)
    64 all resists
    Pre-aura, with all auras thats 250% ED(22 might)+285(lvl 16 conc)+118(12 fanat) = 653% ED, add 95% AR(fanat) and 31% IAS(fanat) and my skellys would look like this

    2892,79-2918.91 (i confess to using calc here)
    994 life (hell)
    1055 defense
    2057.25 attack
    64 all resists
    31% increases IAS
    I must be doing something wrong since you and me end up with such different numbers, but i fail to find where the mistake lies xD please point it out;P
    And incase i am not doing any mistakes (prays) this is a comparasion to the adorable hell bovine (cows)
    Skelly Moo:er
    Life: 994 12588-15499
    Damage: 2892,79-2918.91 120-167 or 111-158
    Defense: 1055 1264
    AR: 2057.25 4232
    General res: 64 50 or 33(poision+magic)
    IAS: 15 frames Unfindable, *to late xD*
    A skelly needs 8-10 (physical resistance of 50%) hits to kill a cow, while a cow need 6-9 hits to kill a skelly, the defense-AR tells me that a cow will hit more often, please say my calculations are heavily flawed, i knew my build wouldnt be optimal (was doing it for fun) but so bad that even a cow would win 1-1 vs a skeleton?
    im to tierd to continue this post, i dont even remember why i started calculating anymore xD ill reply to any answers tomorrow.
    Thanks in advance
     
  13. XCodes

    XCodes IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    1) The skill tree lies. Your skeleton's actual stats are here:

    http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/necro_pet_calculator.html

    2) The displayed damage already includes some +%ED (I'm guessing 224% ED for level 35 raise skeleton). That ED is *not* multiplied by the auras, they're all added together first, and then multiplied by the skeleton's base damage (about 135 damage for level 35/35 skeletons).
     
  14. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Ah, i see. With your calc it turns out more like 1500 dmg, as you said xD. I noticed there's the option of using BO, would a CTA beat faith/AoKL+homo? i doubt it but since you seem to be more well informed than i am i though i should atleast ask ;P
     
  15. XCodes

    XCodes IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    CTA is more-or-less pointless on a summoner. Your skeletons are disposable, they don't need more life. It will give you and your merc more life, however.
     
  16. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    I think thats the only reason we use CTA to be honest, The skeletons can be resummoned for free, The merc and yourself however costs that and the extra. That and the extra skiller can help.
     
  17. HuggaBear

    HuggaBear IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Yeah it's possibly worth using a call of arms for the life, only thing you need really...I would suggest using the oak sage with hoto but since you're maxing auras... well :p


     
  18. Norre

    Norre IncGamers Member

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    Re: Questions Regarding Summons with aura's

    Heh, ya the oak sage might be worth considering, an absolutly irrelevant question but still something that is buggering me, since i will be running with near 20 or so summons most of the time, will all have the same aura visible under them or it be random all the time? Adds to the brag-factor somewhat xD.

    And a more relevant question, now with my fishy mancer i got boosted to high lvl and had all gear ready (dont say retalent. that char have expired since long:p), but with this one i wished to solo to 80ish before accepting any non-self earned items. (this means playing only solo games with pass, except for act3. i hate act 3, there i get some1 to give trans+durance lvl2 WP then i leave game and continue like normal^^)
    i am lvl 62 now and just started hell and had to chuck 2 full rejus after a fight with corpsefire (aure enchanted ftl, could maybe have dodged it but all my skellys didnt attack and i had a surplus of them anyway), i remember from past times (picked up playing again after 3-4+ years of inactiveness) that hell was alot harder than NM, but not this much.
    After hearing all talk about necros being able to solo hell naked im starting to wonder a bit, with naked to they mean no gear but +skillers? XD because corpsefire alone killed 5 skeletons+4 mages.
    I am going all out MF so im rolling with even less +skills than before^^ 3 to be exact.
    All answers will be appreciated, even if they are insults on how noobish i am, you would to after such a long inactivness XD
    PS: it owns to be able to blaim something else when ur ****ing up!
     

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