Questions and points of debate.

[Shaven Monkee]

Questions and points of debate.

I want to make my first trap sin. I have read thru the strat compend and found lots of useful info BUT it has raised questions and points of debate.

Debate over Shadow Warrior and Shadow Master. Which is better?

It is my understanding that Warrior uses ONLY the skills that you have access to and ONLY the skills that you have assigned, whilst Master uses ALL skills that a sin can use.

Benefit of Warrior over Master:

Since it only uses the skills that you use it is less likely to use an ability that will go against your strategy.

Benefit of Master over Warrior: Warrior has more HP and can tank better and of course can use ANY skill.

Second issue: Whether or not to Max Warrior or Master or to allow + to skills boost it to sufficient level for effectiveness.

Third issue: CC vs. CS:

CC pros: More + to skills possible and chance to block elemental attacks.
Blocking an elemental attack>resisting the damage of the elementable attack after it hits you.

CC cons: lower block % of physical attacks.

CS pros: Max block attainable, use of Spirit monarch to add to +skills and resists and mana etc.

CS cons: NO chance to block elemental attacks.

Third issue: Fade:

Max or not? Use + to skills to boost?

Max pros: no brainer, more resists.
Max cons: less points to boost trap synergies, thusly reducing effectiveness of traps. Dead sins set no traps.

Not Max: More skills to boost traps but less resists making resists from gear essential, meaning less flexiblity in gear selection. Sins that deal more damage kill enemies before they can kill the sin ergo: Best defense is good offense.

MB: Max or NOT? (argument is simply more of the same above)



Please leave you thoughts and much needed opinions on these issues and any other related issues.

 

[bruthor]

I want to make my first trap sin. I have read thru the strat compend and found lots of useful info BUT it has raised questions and points of debate.

Debate over Shadow Warrior and Shadow Master. Which is better?

It is my understanding that Warrior uses ONLY the skills that you have access to and ONLY the skills that you have assigned, whilst Master uses ALL skills that a sin can use.

Benefit of Warrior over Master:

Since it only uses the skills that you use it is less likely to use an ability that will go against your strategy.

Benefit of Master over Warrior: Warrior has more HP and can tank better and of course can use ANY skill.

Second issue: Whether or not to Max Warrior or Master or to allow + to skills boost it to sufficient level for effectiveness.

Third issue: CC vs. CS:

CC pros: More + to skills possible and chance to block elemental attacks.
Blocking an elemental attack>resisting the damage of the elementable attack after it hits you.

CC cons: lower block % of physical attacks.

CS pros: Max block attainable, use of Spirit monarch to add to +skills and resists and mana etc.

CS cons: NO chance to block elemental attacks.

Third issue: Fade:

Max or not? Use + to skills to boost?

Max pros: no brainer, more resists.
Max cons: less points to boost trap synergies, thusly reducing effectiveness of traps. Dead sins set no traps.

Not Max: More skills to boost traps but less resists making resists from gear essential, meaning less flexiblity in gear selection. Sins that deal more damage kill enemies before they can kill the sin ergo: Best defense is good offense.

MB: Max or NOT? (argument is simply more of the same above)



Please leave you thoughts and much needed opinions on these issues and any other related issues.

Having the shadow warrior using your traps is not a good thing. If shadow lay one trap, then you can only have 4, and your traps are much stronger in most cases. Master is the best tank, wich is the main purose. I like her when she mindblast and stuff too. Go shadowmaster, its simply the best. She deals more dmg as well as she is using some kicks and TS. lvl 17 they have all equipment, but if you want them to be better tanks, than invest more. Its about taste.

Weapon block is the best to me. Even 1 point and some + skills (at least 6 from claws, circlet and ammy even if untwinked) than the 75% shield.
~50 percent to block ~100% of all incoming is better than 75% to block ~50% of all incoming. Besides, most of the physical attacks are melee. If you get hit often by melee when playing trapsin, something is wrong. And not to mention life. Less dexterity = more life. If this is for PvP, then its all about what you are fighting. Forget the spirit monarch. Claws adds more skills, and monarch has a terrible chance to block. Maybe if you use guardian angel, though.

Mind blast: 1 point.

Fade: this is tricky. If you have not planned your gear, than a few points are great investment. Maxing fade doesent nesceserily reduce too much dmg. You only gain one more synergy, but the resists from gear are substituted for + skills, which is a more effective way of raising dmg. My only advice is to plan your gear and calculate how much fade is needed. Don't forget the hidden 1%/lvl damage reduction. As you probably wont use eighter shaftstop or stormshield, this is very nice.

 

[IIDX]

warrior vs *master

Shadow Warrior uses the skills you have active, bad as bruthor stated, but also consider that if you forget to cast BoS/Fade before the warrior, you can't cast those skills, but no one is that forgetfull. Shadow Master, while independent has 26 she can use and is the better tank. Skill points become a problem for c/c, or not if they use 2x +3 shadisiple claws, +3 shadisiple helm, +3 shadisiple ammy totally to 12 skills for prebuff works with fade/BoS as well :thumbsup:

*c/s vs c/c
I currently use a c/s trapsin, but had some thoughts of making a c/c one. My problem with c/c is partly because her lack of damage reduce, higher block rate, potential lost of resist & fcr, and the high priced claws. Though they have more life, My c/s can achieve more than 2.5k life which im satistfied with. With c/s you'll need to spend more points into dex. I have 195points with gear and have 1.4k without cta, but at that cost, I'll have the highest achieve block rate, 35 dr+gear, full resist, and better fcr.

Mindblast 1 pt, your gear will do the rest

c/c might have a problem with max synergies 80 + ~20 weapon block, leaving players to lvl higher or spend alot on expensive claws and lack potential use other skills, but again heres an answer

+3 shadow&disiple claws
+3 shadow&disiple claws
+3 shadow&disiple helm
+3 shadow&disiple ammy
=12 skill prebuff to Fade, BoS, Shadow(s)

 

[BIGeyedBUG]

A few clarifications:

Tankability of SW. If you take the time to have the SW cast Fade, she's often more durable than a SM of the same level. Even unFaded, a level 20+ SW does alright in Hell, though she'll go down if swarmed, particularly by phys damage mobs. The same could be said of the SM.

There is more to tanking than pure durability though, there's also behavior. The SM has the habit of backing off from fights periodically and laying traps--once she's in a fight, the SW will stay engaged even if you have traps mouse buttoned. Finally, the SM is bugged and very often evaporates when she goes offscreen, where the SW teleports.

The 5 Sentry limit. The conventional wisdom has been that SWs are a poor choice for trappers because they'll spam traps and override the players more powerful and better placed ones. Usually, this isn't true. For better or worse, the SW only sets traps in certain situations, and most of the time is very eager to melee. There will be times when she'll spam low-grade LSs and annoy the heck out of you, but she'll spend the majority of her time tanking. You can also prevent her from setting sentrys entirely by taking them off your mouse buttons while you're waiting for them to fire (I'd suggest FB or SWe on LMB and MB or CoS on RMB.)

You can also run into the 5 sentry limit with the SM, and you'll have a much harder time predicting when it will be a problem.

They're both great, useful minions, that'll occasionally make you pull your hair out. If you're trying to decide between the two, these are the main questions I'd ask:

Are you a patient player, and does the idea of a controllable minion appeal to you? Go SW.

If you'd rather forget about your minion (most of the time), and especially if you're looking for something to supplement your damage output...Go SM.

There's more to it, but that's the short version.