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Questions about the Boner and Iron Golem.

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by gibsonSG, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    Questions about the Boner and Iron Golem.

    I was thinking about two things: what kind of damage a PvP boner is capable of doing now without the marrowwalk bug, and where some guides are that don't depend on exploiting that bug. I already checked the guides here, and they at least suggested using marrows for that purpose. I assume you still just max bone spear, bone spirit, bone wall, and teeth? Is the damage you can do enough to carry you through 8-player hell games?

    In addition to those skills, I know you add a point into clay golem, golem mastery, and summon resist. I had a few questions pertaining to the Iron Golem, mainly: is it worth it? I would also like to know what mods from weapons/armors are carried over to the golem when it is created. Ideally, it sounds like an IK Maul socketed with 2 perfect skulls would make a great golem if all the mods (except indestructable) transferred over - Arreat Summit says the "damage from 2 handed weapons don't transfer" so I'm assuming he'd only be doing like 33-odd damage per hit then?

    I also assume an A2 mercenary would be ideal for supporting a boner, but the question again becomes "which one?" I could go might for the golem and his sake's, allowing them to do some pretty sick damage while I cast amplify damage and spam bone spells. I could also go holy freeze too, correct? As this character isn't dependent on corpses to get summons, it shouldn't pose too much of a problem. Assuming the iron golem thing works out well and I get a might merc, I could have some serious support in those two...

    Input is appreciated, as usual :cool: .
     
  2. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    hey dude. well for my pvp boner, he does around 2.8k spear dmg and 3.2k spirit dmg (not exactly sure cause i haven't played in a month). I'll give you what he uses from what i remember...

    Items:(go for fcr.... atleast 125 fcr is a must!!! forget skiller items if you don't even hit 125 fcr break point... oya if you don't know.. fcr = faster cast rate)
    Shako
    Enigma
    Wiz spike
    Spirit Monarch shield
    plus 1 necro ammy with some resist (not very good compared to the pros here...:cry: )
    two fcr rings (both have 10 fcr, one has a str mod and the other +resist and +mana)
    arach belt
    magefist
    boots.... (not so sure what i had... it probably had resist and plus to run/walk incase i ran outta mana.... but i'd go for crasted craster boots from the hordaric recipe-if you don't know check out arreatsummit.com or something like that for it)

    Charms: necro torch, and around 3-5 pnb gc's (working on getting more if i start again) i also used some mana charms cause i tended to tele a lot in battle

    skills: (you can decide to wheter max teeth first or not, but i'm doing that last)
    max spear
    max spirit
    max prison
    max wall
    max teeth
    get ONE bone armor (this should be able to tank up to around 800 dmg from just lvl 1 since you'll be maxing prison n wall sooner or later)
    get one skele, one mage, one blood, one iron, one revive (with plus skillers from the items i listed and stuff, you should have aroudn 5-8 skele n mages and some revives.... you use these to tank for you NOT for dmg... theres a minion stack glitch where if you get big revives and teleport your skeles don't move unless you decide to walk instead of teleing again... these act as tanks in pvp for trapsins, i guess wind druids lol... ww barb, etc... basically the skele, mage, n revive act as tanks against most attacks while when they die, you have bone armor to maybe save you.. remember!!! JUST ONE IN THESE)
    get the prerequiste too....:wink3:

    use a clay golem... with your skillers he should be enough to tank. i don't see a point in using an iron golem unless you're a summoner because since you're a bone necro, you just need a tank and clay golem has the most life over all... even with lvl 1 in it (this is pvp so you'll be dieing too... meaning you wasted some item you just crafted.. unless its really horrible)

    option skills: iron maiden (but u need amp to get it too). i got this because i was used to playing classic and used the old wait till barbs ww, run, iron maiden, wall, he's dead (since this is LoD, i don't think you need it at all because you'll be teleing a lot with enigma)
    you could also get decrep for slowing enemy down for a while too i guess... i've seen some pretty good necroes in both classic and LoD decrep when ur in the field and spam spirits/spears (up to you). personally i don't know cause i've never used decrep

    as for the merc, i went with a act 2 nm holy freeze merc (def merc) because i'd just tele near the enemy with his aura on and have him slow them down a little for my spirits/spears to be easier to aim and they won't be "dodging" that much

    for merc gear i used insight because i needed mana and didn't have cta for extra mana and stuff... as for armor i just went with an easy to find gold skin and for helm i just got a tals mask because they're quite common to find for me

    even with pitiful dmg compared to other classes... i can still kill and i can be formidable for godly chars... you just have to get used to playing like a sorc a little... tele around a ton with a patern (or not.. usually the enemies figures out your pattern sooner or later so i just go wild :grin: ) so after a couple teles unleash ur spirits n spears.. by the time you do this maybe you have some distance... but overall tele far away and cast 1-10 spirits/spear than go to a difff spot n closer and cast again and basically just keep the enemy on the run so they don't have time to dodge any of your attacks... if they do end up dodging... prison them... but prison doesn't usually work when you hit chars around lvl 90's because they often have enigma to escape this... so it all comes down to ur skill and aim with minimap... (i've heard that teeth works wonders on sorcs... but i'm not sure...)
     
  3. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    forgot to say that you don't need summon resist or golem mastery.. just a waste of points in my opinion cause the golem takes full dmg as if it was an enemy monster in regular game even in pvp
     
  4. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    For PVP purposes things you should aim for:

    -125% FCR
    -86% FHR
    -MAX BLOCK
    -43-50% PDR (Use SS it is the best shield and use an ELD in it or if you duel alot of wind druids have a spare with a Cham). Switch to a spirit shield and white wand where needed I.E. Necro duels.
    -Life - aim for 2500 or around there. With uber gear 3k is possible yet you loose a lot of resists, etc.
    -Stacked resists however you do this is up to you.
    -I will say that a whizzy IMO is the best weapon and with a 15% res all/7% FHR jewel it stacks your resists and you only loose a little damage in PVP. Hands down the best all around weapon IMO. Hoto is also an option as well as spirit crystal sword, etc. The key is to attain the 125% FCR without loosing a lot.

    -Damage should be in the 4400 range (4400 is plenty for PVP casting at 125%.

    -For merc help get an act 2 with an insight weapon. No more mana worries.

    -For PVM and with your stacked resists you can go anywhere and kill everything (merc help sometimes) and the use of CE (the godly CE will kill fast once you kill a few monsters).

    -As for the golem I use Clay and have never thought of switching so I can not help on that side of your question.

    Good luck.
     
  5. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    ...hmmm. I guess I'm looking for flexiblity here with this build (the boss-rushing, MFing, rushing people, etc. kind). And for PvP wouldn't I want Homonculous for the max block rather than the extra FCR from spirt? As far as I've been aware, the Homo is the ultimate necromancer shield for it's balance of sick mods and good block %. I'd imagine that this would help me with the PvM aspect, too. I guess it comes down to the FCR for damage versus the survivablity of block (unless I'd be putting in a similar amount to get max block from the stormshield and a spirit monarch too).

    With respect to the Iron Golem, of course I wouldn't be using that in duels, but if made from a decent weapon/armor, would he have a relatively powerful position next to my mercenary? I'm still kind of in the dark as to which mods will transfer and which will not; even the Arreat Summit is a little blurry on this. It says that two-handed damage won't add to the golems damage, but it doesn't say (or NOT say, for that matter) that single handed damage will not add either. I guess crushing blow WOULD transfer, but the indestructible mod WOULDN'T and I'm still lost as to what else will and will not transfer over to the golem. It'd be a nice investment to have a "second mercenary" next to me so I can have two GOOD tanks dispensing respectable damage for me.
     
  6. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    i agree with most of his terms, but i really don't think you need max block at all since you'll have physical damage absorption of around 800 with just one point into bone armor and maxed synergies. it should also be enough because you're teleing with 125fcr and more... you really don't get hit a lot if you know how to tele... in my opinion, when you face another necro, it mainly depends on your fcr, aim, and keeping cool and not making too many mistakes (ie. teleing into a mob of spirits) no point in using iron because u'll be wasting ur item that you used to make it since you'll die sooner or later... (that is unless your godly rich:thumbsup: ) i'm pretty sure that iron golems obtain the same aura that they were created from, and i'm sure that they can have crushing blow. technically, it'd be like another mercenary, but it won't be pumping massive damage like your act2 merc. It's just there for the aura. often when using iron golem, people craft it out of an insight (often cheap ones) and give a stronger weapon to the merc.
     
  7. wildbillboy

    wildbillboy Banned

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    Slow on a Iron Golem

    I have often wondered why if people like Clay for the Slow so much they don't just make Iron from Something with good slow on it? C-Gloves or a Medusa's shield etc?
    I would guess that Clay has slow when hit rather than on hit and as golem don't hit much but can take hits all day this would be the reason?
    I will take a look with the search function and let you know if I find a Authoritative post on it.

    EDIT:
    Heres the post and I was correct - his slow is when he is hit and makes this 1 pointer the wonder people all recommend.
    Diablo 2 Forums > DII Strategy Forums > Necromancer > Golem FAQ Revised
     
  8. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    If you PVP enough you will find that max block and 43-50% PDR is a huge advantage. Your BA on a vita build will get crushed by any "just ok grief wielding BVC, etc." If you do not believe me and you are on east ladder I will show you or have a friend do a WW through a vita build (PDR or No PDR).
    Sure you can tele fast all over the place but you will eventually run into a WW, etc. without max block you are dead in 1 WW (PDR or Not). With max block and PDR it will take down your BA and just do a tad bit of damage as long as they do not get a tri WW (DOD) in and hardly anyone is that good with DOD's.

    I have made many many necro's and now that their is a runeword that says "GRIEF" you are dead meat to any real good melee build without max block and high PDR. Yet we seem to always debate this issue (LOL).

    As for the spirit switch I stated above and the white wand I should have been more specific. Depending on how you make your build you can go from an all around setup with around 4400 damage I.E. SS/Whizzy, to around 6k damage with spirit monarch/white wand which retains your 125% FCR which is key. This is mainly if you are dueling another necro.

    Hope that helps.

    As for max block it is up to you but making a brittle vita build anymore just does not seem to be worth it unless you only duel casters or just bad melee characters. Max block allows for mistakes (Period) and now that marrow bug is no more block is so much more important then ever before IMO. I used to make every dueler vita and swear by vita builds :sad2: Times have changed.

    If you are PVM go all vita, block is not even needed.

    And a PVP bone necro can go anywhere with a merc and clay golem and have no problems at all if you incorporate CE into your playing style.
     
  9. wildbillboy

    wildbillboy Banned

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    Agree

    Not really on topic but a good point, I like the current state on NECRO's, no marrows bug yo rule the duel, but a good player can play, and the PVM now can speed kill Uber's etc. Beats the hell out of the 1st 2 years I played and people laughed at me for playing a necro.
    If anyone *****es about this class is nerfed or sucks they should have played then.
    Necros were a joke and could not solo norm diablo at lvl 70.
     
  10. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    ...still doesn't answer my question about Homonculous. Like I said - I thought this was the end-all-be-all of Necromancer shields for PvP and PvM. Also, what's the amount of dexterity I should shoot for with a SPIRIT monarch (I assume?) and Stormshield on switch? I assume there's a number that I should get that will give me max block with whatever shield I use at level 90 (or so - I'll probably stop @ 90).
     
  11. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    lol... sry dude if i was off topic with my stuff earlier... just wanted to let you know what you should look for and stuff. anyways don't use homunculus because there's no fcr in it. if you're lucky, the spirit monarch shield you make will have better resist than homunculus too and they already both give 2 to skills. i'm not sure how much dex a necro needs to max block but i'm sure its gunna be really high up there (i'm guessing around 200-300? cause pallys need aorund 120 to max and pally blocking is good and i'm sure you need around 200 dex for a barb's max block), which in my mind leaves barely any life unless you can afford a cta to make up a little... (than again i've never gotten a single point in dex for my necro)

    that is unless you know how to keep your distance... but its all about playing style i guess... for my necro i prefer to stay atleast 2 screens away- meaning that if they tele anywhere closer to me, i tele farther away and try to get away again. i know that these moments will come when they get close and strike you but basically once you're hit by any melee char, you're as good as dead in the next hit, with or without max block, in my opinion. bone armor may save your life once, max block maybe the next time, but the next two is a sure thing you're dead. from my experience, most melee chars are wwbarb, and smiters. both of those classes have a sure thing of killing you if they know what they're doing once they land 1-3 hits you're dead unless you get a break... i'm not saying that max block isn't great, but since a necro isn't meant to be a melee, wouldn't its req in dex so max block take up a bunch of points that could go into vit to help you survive longer if the enemy messes up and since you may have low life (not sure how your build works) wouldn't they be able to 1hit you either way? i know that it takes some smiters to atleast hit me 2-3 times (animation wise) to kill me with just my bone armor on and no block. than again they're pretty mediocre and don't have godly equipment.. explain how you can acquire max block and still get some good life as to not be 1 hit ko'd by the godly's plz. i'm a pubby dueler by the way. i can see how max block works with 1 v 1 duels but in pubs... thats really hard...:undecided:

    PS: we probably play different realms so thats why you go for block and i go for life/speed. often the people in the realm i play team and basically g**** b*** you so even if they can't triww the other guy gets you... each realm has a different playing style :smiley:
     
  12. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    The dex number all depends on your end game gear if you are planning ahead like FCR rings with str/dex on them, circlet, etc. The better rings you get, etc. the less you have to invest in str and dex and the more you can put into vita. If you are not planning on specific gear in the end because you do not have great rings, etc. just add as you go and I would recommend having one SS with an Eld rune to reduce the amount of dex you will need and one with a Cham if you duel (PVP) a lot of wind druids.

    I am currently rebuilding my necro since I found a new FCR ring with +15 dex but on my old necro (LVL 94) he used one str/13 dex FCR ring, 20 stat anni, 20 stat torch and at lvl 94 with an eld in the SS my necro had to have 152 in dex(hard points including what you get when you start - white number lol) so that was around 205 dex with an elded SS, the rest went into vita. Now with my new ring I will be able to use 2 FCR rings with dex and other good stats and reduce my dex by 15 thus adding to my vita to perfect my build a little more. With FCR rings, circlets, etc. try and cover the str requirements first for the 156 Str needed for monarch shields then worry about dex. It is hard to find rings that give good mana and cover both str and dex.

    The Homo shield is not that great anymore, it does not help in the damage area that well in the PVP area after penalty yet for PVM it is still a good choice but If I were just playing PVM I would go all vita and use a spirit shield (monarch) or a less strength build with a darkforce to get the 125% FCR in.

    For PVP the spirit shield is only for dueling casters (I only use it vs necros along with a white wand to keep my 125% FCR up) and use several stacking monarch's instead of spirit for certain dulels like a 4 Lo shield, 4 perf saph shield, 4 perf topaz for foh'rs, etc. and when using a spirit shield do not add anything to dex to help you attain any block with the spirit monarch shield since it will be a waste. Build around a SS/max block and put the rest into vita and when you are using a spirit monarch block should not be in the equation during the duel.

    Homo is still a good shield but now in 1.11 PDR has become a more important factor as well as max block.

    Hope that helps a little more.
     
  13. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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  14. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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  15. gibsonSG

    gibsonSG IncGamers Member

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    Hmmmmmm. I read the Golem FAQ, and it doesn't seem like it would be worth investing too heavily into an Iron Golem. I still wonder about the Homonculous - though I figure that if I have enough dexterity for max block with a Stormshield, I could use the Homo as a PvM thing and still have max block anyways. I understand what you mean with the SPIRIT shield - it's got like a 42% chance to block (which is ubterly pitiful) and is therefore not worth the dexterity investment (though it would also make a very nice PvM shield). If anything, I could do my math and hold onto the Homo until I am able to get a good SPIRIT shield for this character. I assume I'd still go Monarch as I did with my sorceress? He'll be using ENIGMA, so the strength requirement shouldn't be a problem (nor for Stormshield, either).

    I don't think I'll be going for a 20 point torch and 20 point annihilus because those are just too goddamn expensive, and NOT worth spending hours of time bartering for one. I can settle for less and be content - example; my Dreamdin has a 14 point paladin torch and a 19 stat annihilus charm, and he still basically owns nearly everything even if he has a *tad* less life. Unfortunately, the necromancer gets the short end of the shaft when it comes to the vitality to life ratio.

    Also, what calibre of gear would allow me to be at least EFFECTIVE in hell PvM? Like I said, I also hope to be using this character to rush people and kill bosses and such. I assume ~4k bone spirit damage with relatively good FCR (which is 'bout what, assuming I can't get to the 125% breakpoint right away?) will be enough to take down bosses/monsters while my mercenary/golem tank for me. Teeth and bone spear will also do decent damage as well, correct? I mean, they all synergize with each other to a degree - which leads me to my next question. Which order should I max skills? I think bone wall gives the most % damage increase and +absorb for bone armor, so that might be early on my list, but what about the other stuff?

    Thanks again :cool:
     
  16. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    PVM is so easy for a bone necro. You do not need any type of uber gear to go anywhere. What you really need for PVM is a good merc with a good weapon, etc. and about 4000+ damage casting at 125%. Kill a few monsters then CE the _ _ _ _ out of the rest. Get a insight weapon for your merc and mana and mana chugging will not be an issue, nor will the CE. You can use a homo on your build it just is not that great of a shield anymore. I would rather use a spirit shield over a homo (PVM) since max block is not needed. Just cast at 125% and let your clay golem and merc. act as your meat shield and CE CE CE. So easy you will fall asleep and get bored of the game.

    #1 FCR get 125%, FCR is far greater then the damage you see on your screen.
     
  17. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    well... i gotta tell you this gotcha, i guess you're right:undecided: i do play mostly against casters and the melee guys i go up against aren't always so good and usually its their first time. i think your max block setup is aimed more towards people with the godly gear cause you mentioned ss (which i have yet to see from any trade place or maybe i suck:tongue: ) +life sc, i've never seen fcr with +dex either... i read over some stuff and i guess i agree with you about max block helping against melee chars now with aid of bone armor... i'm more of a caster vs caster guy myself so ya. i'll be browsing around to look at your guide cause i'm interested in what stuff you used for items to obtain 125fcr if you didn't use a lidless or spirit monarch
     
  18. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    125% FCR/43% PDR/86% FHR

    2/20 circlet (mine is somewhat godly and has 19 str/30% FRW, 12 all resists and 43% LR. Socketed with a shael rune for 20% FHR.
    Wizardspike socketed with a 15 Resist all/7% FHR jewel. Best weapon for pub
    PVP IMO.
    Enigma MP
    SS (socketed with an Eld rune to reduce dex number for max block - 43% with your BA is enough IMO)
    Bloodfist gloves (40 life:thumbsup: and the godly 30% FHR).
    Arachnid (20% FCR)
    2 10% FCR rings with other mods. My new one has 15 dex and life and mana. My other one is duel mod 16 str/14 dex/mana with no other help.
    Tri resist boots with 30% FRW/10% FHR.
    Ammy is a 2 necro skill/17% FCR crafted ammy with no other help on it. In order to use bloodfist gloves with this setup you need to craft a 15% FCR ammy.
    Anni
    Torch
    9 skiller/lifers (get the best ones with life you can afford)
    Small charms. I use 6 20 life/mana small charms with 4 5% FHR/All resist smalls to reach the 86% FHR breakpoint.
    I keep 2 extra small 5% FHR charms for when I need to switch out boots for hotspurs.
    Stash items: Special monarch shields: 4 Lo, 4 perf topaz, 4 perf saphire, 35% Spirit shield & White wand for switching if I duel 1 vs 1 necro's, hotspurs for those FB sorcy's, trangs gloves for cold sorcy's stacking & 10 11% CR small charms. May add a trechery MP for prebuff but have not yet.

    My build is based around a 15%+ FCR ammy I have crafted to allow me to use bloodfists along with SS. There may be other ways to get around the bloodfists but I find them very important.

    Also my build uses none of the normal dupes (boots, ammy's, rings, etc. that seem to be common). I am not really against the dupes since they have become a part of the game I just prefer not to use them and build my build around them even if it could help my stats.

    Good luck on your new necro and just have fun.
     
  19. hellzfire

    hellzfire IncGamers Member

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    thx for the equipment... time for item hunting:grin:

    ps: did you add any stat points to dex? or just all vit because of the rings,torch, and anni? and what realm do you play? i currently play west LoD but i'm thinking about switching to east LoD because it seems like more of the people on these forums are from east
     
  20. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    You will have to add to dex. My strength with items was left at base with my setup but I had to add to dex to maintain max block with eld'd SS. I have made my P&B many times as I found new gear to try and push the life as high as I can without having to use the general duped items. Again I am not against them but I choose not to use them. At lvl 93 with my items I have 204 into dex (that is the total number needed to have max block with SS Eld'd). My items on the dex side only add 69 (anni, torch, 2 FCR rings) so I had to add to get to the 204 number. My strength is base and all the rest went into vita.

    I do not build all vita builds anymore except a shaman I made on ladder. In order to get max block you will have to add to dex, the key is trying to figure out your end gear and build around that.

    Good luck and have fun.
     

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