Questions about MF Sorcs...

[xzist]

Questions about MF Sorcs...

I just registered but I have been visiting dii.net for a long time. I recently came back to d2 again (so many times I've lost count) and I'm making my first MF sorc. Don't we all go for mf chars after we restart? .

What Type of Sorc?
It seems like single tree sorcs would be best for MFing (highest damage output combined with a decent merc for immunes). Through my reading, it seems the cold tree does the most damage, with fire coming at a close second. Assuming godly items plus merc and switch for MF, which is the best skill tree for a pure PvM/MF sorc?

To ES or not to ES
Before 1.10, I don't remember many sorcs stressing this skill. Now combined with synergies it seems like it regained the luster it lost from Diablo 1. I'm wondering if going ES for pure PvM and MF is worth it. In this thread: http://forums.rpgforums.net/showthread.php?p=2707430#post2707430 (the guy knows what he's talking about...heh) fhpchris says "From a personal Perspective, every sorc I make will have level 20 TK/ Energy shield now that I have made one. It is just amazing how you can tank damage with Energy shield." Even with that being the case, ES just doesn't seem essential to a PvM or MF sorc. It seems that losing the points from your synergies for TK/ES would reduce your killing power significantly and slow down your runs. On top of this, I don't think ES is necessary. Am I correct in beleiving that a sorc with max block or max vita can survive MF runs just fine? Do the gains from ES outweigh its losses? Does the damage lost from synergies decrease your damage enough where FAST MF runs ie: >60 Meph runs are no longer viable? If going ES doesn't decrease the killing power by much then going ES is indeed good/viable for a PvM/MF sorc.

Gear??//!!11
My final question is about gear: what gear is best for a single tree sorc (obviously the gear will be reliant on the answers to my previous questions "What Type of Sorc?" and "To ES or not to ES") for PvM/MFing? I've heard a lot of different combinations and I'm very unclear as to the best gear. It seems hitting the break points for FCR, FHR and FBR (as well as a high block % shield if max block is a viable option) are important as well as +skills, +life/mana and resists.

Sorry for the long post, I had been reading for the past couple weeks and dumped everything off my chest at once.

Conclusion
So the main questions at hand here are...
-Which tree has the highest damage output for PvM?
-Would going TK/ES with the highest damage output skill tree still net me EXTREMELY fast MF runs?
-What gear is best for a single tree sorc (obviously the gear will be reliant on the answers to my previous questions "What Type of Sorc?" and "To ES or not to ES") for PvM/MFing?
-Quoting fhpchris: "MEETING THE BREAKPOINTS WITH EVEN THE CRAPPIEST GEAR MAKES YOU BETTER THAN THOSE THAT DO NOT!" Is this true? Does 105% FCR make that big a difference in the speed of your MF runs? Is hitting 48% FHR BP that important in PvM?

Again sorry for the long/complicated post.

EDIT: After reading this post: http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=549 almost all of my ES concerns/questions were cleared up. I recommend it for anyone interested in how TK/ES works.

 

[scyleia]

- depends on what will u MF'ing, if u only Meph / Baal etc it would be great to have single tree sorc but if u MF'ing pit / mausoleum / Ancient Tunnel i guess it's better to have dual tree sorc.
Personally i like my Meterob

-for the best gear.. i read some post about complete tals vs hoto/occy/shako somewhere in the stickies.

- TK / ES .. i don't think it really helps for MF, higher damage = faster MF ( with full builds of dual tree there's no points left for ES )

- FCR n FHR does important.. imagine u tele'ing and ended in a group of angry Mauler that hit u.. and u can't tele away cause your cast is too slow..

 

[Pitboss_2000]

I have occy, shako, skullders, goldwrap and the rising sun with Ali baba on switch on my pure fire sorc, who handles Hell Mephi really well. I think fire does the most damage of the three trees, but I'm not too sure.

I do not use ES, btw.

 

[screamingpalm]

Hi

I dont claim to be an expert, especially on breakpoints and mathematical stats, but I have playtested many mf builds. It probably depends on your playstyle preference, and what gear you have found. I have found the "Blizzballer" to be the most effective mf'er and IMO the best sorc build, if not the best build in the game.

-The highest damage output would arguably be fire, but if you have a good amount of points in cold mastery a good blizzard can be at least as damaging, if not more so. I dont know the actual stats on these, just a guess on my part.

-I playtested TK/ES and hated it, just my preference perhaps. Another reason I like the "Blizzballer" is that TK/ES is really not necessary since you can frezze, fireball "lock", or Telekinesis "push" everything away from you. Also you can pump life with that build and not worry about dexterity and max block. I would think the more points you can spend in other spells, the more damage and faster mf runs you would have.

-I cant remember the gear I had with my fire sorc.....trying to forget :scared:

-I'll leave the breakpoints to the experts :innocent:

 

[darzog]

ES/TK:
I would recommend not going with ES. Instead I would recommend that you focus on your damage skills/synergies. Some people like it, some don't, my opinion is ES/TK is a waste for MF.

Type of Sorc:
The two options I would recommend are either pure cold or Fire/Cold Dual (either Meteorb or BlizBall). Pure cold can do great damage and even without a good merc can do Meph, Andy, Mausoleum, Ancient Tunnels. With a good merc you can add Pindle, Shenk, Eldritch, Pits, and Countess. Dual tree loses some damage, so main boss runs will be a little slower. But since you can hit in 2 damage types, you don't have to rely on your merc for immunes, so area runs are quicker. As far as pure cold vs. pure fire, against someone with no resistance, fire has higher damage by far. But let's look at 5k bliz vs. 14k meteor on someone with 50% resist...... meteor is cut to 7.5k damage. Since pure cold will max CM, they will have at least -115% to cold resist so bliz damage is boosted to 8.2k damage. Looking at Andy only, she is negative fire resist, to fire is best for her, for all other runs I would recommend pure cold.

Breakpoints:
I would recommend you get at the very minimum 63% fcr. Hitting the 105% is nice and I would recommend you start out hitting 105. As far as FHR, if you have a HF merc and Shiver Armour, enemies are chilled almost automatically so your fcr should be able to get you out of harm's way. The only breakpoint that is absolutely required is the fcr, but if your gear allows it, getting fhr and fast block are also good.

Block vs. Vita:
I would recommend max block. I've tried both and I prefer max block. Others prefer max vita. They are both beneficial in their own way but my personal choice is block.

Merc:
You didn't ask this, but it is related to your other questions. I would recommend either a defiance or HF merc. Might mercs are useful and will kill quicker, but are more likely to die when surrounded and don't benefit _you_. A defiance merc will boost your defense, helping you stay alive and due to insane defense can tank like nobody's business. A HF merc (my personal choice) will chill anyone, including CI (but maybe not some bosses) which will slow down anyone trying to kill you. This is very useful when teleporting because it gives you more time to leave. Also HF + Decrep from Reaper's Toll is awesome.

Gear:
OK, here's the most open question. Obviously for MF you need to focus on MF in gear. You also need +skills. You also need FCR. You also need resists. High def doesn't hurt, or FHR, or Block or Block speed, or absorb or DR, etc, etc, etc. As you can see, everything is useful but what is the most important? When you first start to MF, the two most important things are staying alive and killing speed. As an arbitrary example, if you have 0 MF vs 600MF but you die every time with 600MF and take 10 minutes to complete a run or you stay alive and finish a run in 3 minutes with 0 MF, the 0 MF is better. The difference between 0 MF and 400MF is about a 1.5x chance to find uniques. So if you can kill 50% faster with no MF, you still end up with the same chance to find good gear. Keeping that in mind, when you start do not focus on MF gear. Instead of Chancies, get magefist for FCR. Instead of nagel rings, use a Dwarf star or Ravefrost or FCR or resist, or something to help you live and kill. Once you can do runs easily without dying, then start switching MF gear in to increase your MF. As you get better and aren't dying at all, start switching MF gear in place of FCR, resist, etc gear. At some point you may fall below the 105 fcr.... see if it makes a big difference. If it does, go back to 105. If you start taking out resist gear and you start gulping full rejuvs to stay alive, switch more resist back in. The main point is staying alive and killing effieciently make up for lower than normal MF.

When I started if I tried getting more than 100 MF my bliz sorc started dying on the way to meph so I had to scale back. After awhile I was able to get gear with MF and other bonues so my MF went up and I could still kill efficiently. Find the right balance for you and then adapt as you get better gear or start killing easier.

To be specific, as mid-gear I would recommend:
Weapon: Wizard Spike
Shield: Moser, Viscerataunt, Whistan
Armour: Vipermagi
Belt: Goldwrap, Tal belt
Gloves: Magefist
Boots: Lots to choose from
Rings: Ravenfrost, Dwarf star, Rares with fcr, resist
Ammy: Rares with +skills, fcr, resisits
Helm: Tarnhelm, Peasant Crown, Crown of Thieves
Switch: Ali baba or Gull + Rhyme - can add MF jewels to ali baba

For end-gear you can look in any guide for good choices:
Weapon: Wizard Spike
Shield: Up'ed-Moser, Up'ed-Viscerataunt, Stormshield
Armour: Up'ed-Vipermagi, Skullders
Belt: Up'ed-Goldwrap, Tal belt, Arachnid Mesh
Gloves: Chancies
Boots: War Travs
Rings: Ravenfrost, Dwarf star, Nagel, SOJ, Wisp, Rares with fcr, resist
Ammy: Mara's, Rares with +skills, fcr, resisits
Helm: Shako
Switch: Ali baba or Gull + Rhyme

As you can, add PTopaz to gear for extra MF, PDiamond to shields if you need more resists and Ist to switch weapon when you can afford it. This setup won't get you max MF but you end up with good MF plus being able to survive.

_________________
Darzog

 

[Mr_Addict]

I Like Blizz sorc, for theyre ability to handle Pindle and Meph very well..

I have one of those and she uses!
Shako
Oculus
Tals Amu
Tals Armor
Tals Belt
Lidless
Frostburns <--- Chancies give 40% MF.... These babies 40% more mana!
WT
Ravenfrost
Dwarfstar

You end up with:
300+ MF
70% FCR (ocu 30, lidless 20, tals belt (set bonus) 10, tals armor (set bonus) 10. This is more than enough IMO!)
10% PDR
+8 to all skills (ocu 3, shako 2, tals amu 2, lidless 1)

A very nice MF'er... For Pindleruns I'd recommend an act 2 Merc to tank. Mine uses:
Tomb Reaver (AmnAmnAmn)
Shaftstop
6/8/15 Gaze

45 PDR
75% MF
29% LL
All reist maxxed

HE CANT DIE!!!

Regds

Mr_addict

 

[niomosy]

The two main sorc's are Blizz and Meteorb (Meteor and Frozen Orb). It depends on what you want to run. There are straight fire sorcs that run Andy/Meph/Pindle as well. For that, you'll want to get yourself a wand with lower resist charges on it (level 2, if possible). It will help your killing speed tremendously.

Blizz sorcs own boss runs (Andy/Meph/Pindle). If your goal is to run these, a Blizz sorc is your best bet. You can also run the Masoleum in A1 over by Blood Raven as it's one of the level 85(?) areas. Baal runs are possible if you've got a really good merc (or are good at parking the CI bosses). For Pindle, I kill him so quickly that I never even bother res'ing my merc. He's only rarely CI and since I just spam glacial spike in between blizzards, the minions are no danger.

Meteorb sorcs are great for things like Pit runs and Baal runs where there are usually a mix of resistances in the minions. You can also hit Pindle, Shenk, Eldritch and do pretty well.

Fire sorcs are pretty good but seem more popular for dueling than MF (though plenty will mf with them as well).

As for gear, you've got some options depending on which way you go. At a minimum, try to get at least 63% fcr. You'll be thankful for the faster teleporting that helped you miss getting hit by that pack of mobs you were passing through.

Blizzard Sorc -
Weapon: Occy or Death's Fathom (Occy will be much cheaper)
Armor: Skullder's or Enigma (Skullder's is much cheaper). For a Sorc, I generally don't bother with Enigma. It's expensive and can be put to better use on a hammerdin or wind druid that wants to tele to Baal. To each his own, though.
Helm: Harlequin's Crest. No doubts here.
Shield: Rhyme, Lidless, 4-ist Monarch, 3-Ist Headhunters Glory, SS - I'm going with Lidless for now. SS if you go max block. I never bother with blocking.
Rings: Nagel/SOJ
Ammy: Whatever. I prefer rares with fcr, skills and mf on them. Hard to find, though.
Boots: War Travs
Belt: Arachnid's
Gloves: Chancies.


Meteorb:

In all honesty, I like Tal's set. The benefits of the lowered fire resistance seem to outweight outright damage according to the numbers. It so provides 50% fcr and some fhr (which I've not bothered much with, to be honest). Don't forget the LR wand

Pure fire:
You can either go the Blizz setup, switching in Eschuta's for the Death's Fathom or go with Tal's. Tal's does provide a damage bonus with the lowered resistance so this may be a good way to go. Grab that wand of lower resist as well.

My choice is with the Blizz sorc. They're just too good at Andy/Meph/Pindle runs. For the other stuff, I use my hammerdin since I have no monster resists to really worry about there :d

I don't even bother with a merc on my blizz sorc. She doesn't really need one. Andy dies quickly. Meph dies quickly. Pindle is dead very quickly and glacial spike stops the chargers. No need, really.

I also don't bother with blocking. Yes, I could probably have saved myself a few deaths along the way but I'm not in HC so I don't see the bother. If you go max block, be sure that you somehow have enough str for the Stormshield. You will definitely need this shield and you'll need a lot of str to equip it. Enigma can help out here with the big str boost it provides.