Question ....

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
I am here because I like to see how others are playing on SP. I like to brag with my finds. I like helping others by answering their questions. I like being noticed as somebody who knows a bit about the game, but I know that there's still a lot for me to learn from others and I like learning. I like telling my old stories about D2. I also like being a moderator, although the forum I'm moderating, the Europe trading forum, has become a bit quiet. In summary, I like feeling significant to some extent and to give others that feeling as well.

The goal of this thread is obviously about what Thyiad is going to do here in the future. I cannot imagine a SPF without her. I hope that there will be a SPF with her, you and me and that this forum will remain a place worth visiting, despite all differences between us.
 

TreeOfSmoke

Diabloii.Net Member
Lurker here!
The last 2 years I've hardly played any D2, but is still check the forum from time to time.

It's nice to see the MFOs and RFOs and the crazy items people find.
Also I need to know how Grape's Zod god sept is doing!
 

Albatross

Diabloii.Net Member
I think this is the only place where people understand what I mean when I say "I have to find the grail". The SPF has also helped my goal immensely.

I also enjoy reading about time travelling discoveries and other insane gaming feats. I don't think I ever played any tournaments but followed many.

It's a place where honour is important and the agreed upon rules are followed.
 
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JoeBruce

Diabloii.Net Member
To add a bit more to my original post:

Pretty sure I first came here when I still played on Bnet, and I had a different SPF account name that I forgot and had to make this "newer" one. But I liked the SPF for the wealth of knowledge and inspiration (as I, and others, previously stated). What kept me here was the ethic. I did not like what Bnet was becoming, and I usually played on my own anyway. This was a community of D2 players that shunned most of what I deemed as the negatives of Bnet: duping, stealing, lying and cheating. When I found out SP offered static maps and a third party system that mimicked/improved on the "muling system" of Bnet (using individual characters), I eventually made the transition. Plus now I did not have to log into my accounts every few weeks to keep them active. I could walk away for years and come back to my characters and stashes just as I left them.

Although I thought people on the SPF could be rude and intimidating, they were more often welcoming and helpful. After 1.13 I struggled to get decent gear advice because of the "use a runeword" auto-response most people had (I don't have Grief, and I likely never will). But if you do a little digging you can usually find what you're looking for. And advice about character planning and playing style is always top notch.

Over the years this became a place to show off my (few and far between) accomplishments in the game, as well as take place in some really interesting and fun tournaments that could only exist on the SPF (99-items and pass it on tournaments come to mind). Although I never participated much in daily/OT threads, the sense of community it fostered was very cool - not something I really anticipated seeing in relation to a video game, but it was a huge part of why people came here. The atmosphere was a lot more mature than I expected. If I ever finish my HC sept, I know that this will be the place to show it off, and that the members here will appreciate not only the accomplishment, but the effort it takes to share said accomplishment(s).
 

Kitteh

Diabloii.Net Member
To add a bit more to my original post:

Pretty sure I first came here when I still played on Bnet, and I had a different SPF account name that I forgot and had to make this "newer" one. But I liked the SPF for the wealth of knowledge and inspiration (as I, and others, previously stated). What kept me here was the ethic. I did not like what Bnet was becoming, and I usually played on my own anyway. This was a community of D2 players that shunned most of what I deemed as the negatives of Bnet: duping, stealing, lying and cheating. When I found out SP offered static maps and a third party system that mimicked/improved on the "muling system" of Bnet (using individual characters), I eventually made the transition. Plus now I did not have to log into my accounts every few weeks to keep them active. I could walk away for years and come back to my characters and stashes just as I left them.

Although I thought people on the SPF could be rude and intimidating, they were more often welcoming and helpful. After 1.13 I struggled to get decent gear advice because of the "use a runeword" auto-response most people had (I don't have Grief, and I likely never will). But if you do a little digging you can usually find what you're looking for. And advice about character planning and playing style is always top notch.

Over the years this became a place to show off my (few and far between) accomplishments in the game, as well as take place in some really interesting and fun tournaments that could only exist on the SPF (99-items and pass it on tournaments come to mind). Although I never participated much in daily/OT threads, the sense of community it fostered was very cool - not something I really anticipated seeing in relation to a video game, but it was a huge part of why people came here. The atmosphere was a lot more mature than I expected. If I ever finish my HC sept, I know that this will be the place to show it off, and that the members here will appreciate not only the accomplishment, but the effort it takes to share said accomplishment(s).
I agree that there have been members over the years who treat people like crap for little reason, but as you said, as a whole the community is a really welcoming place.
 

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
Unecessary off topic posts from everyone deleted. My PM box has always worked, feel free to use that.
 

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
For those wondering, here's the general tally of why people are here

11111111111111111 Learn/guides
1111111111 Community (helpful/polite/nice.mature/like minded)
111111111 Getting inspiration
11111 Tourneys
1111 Challenges (keeping game fresh)
111 Help others
111 Lack of mods
11 Posting accomplishments
11 ATMA/GoMule
11 Rules
11 ITF
MFO/RFO/etc
Venting
Habit
Wealth not assumed
Teach
Chat
Easy to read
Classic info
Active
Mechanics
Real lives
Trade
Tech help
Ethics
Stuff that can only be done in SP
Improve lives
 

Thyiad

Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian
(This was written a few days ago. I wanted others to post; usually any time I post in a thread, it dies.)

I no longer remember how I came to purchase Diablo II. Judging by my join date, the game wasn't new but I was never into new games really. I was still cheerfully playing Sim City, Colonization, Elite on the C64 and stuff like that on an A1200. (I still have them.)

I do remember doing what I usually do which is researching around a topic, visiting various sites and seeing what the community was like and what information they had, their ethos and attitude. Remember that I wasn't a kid but 36 with a background which was research-lead by text not videos. (Still the same, I'd rather read than watch a video.)

The vast majority of D2 forums seemed to be full of Bnet kiddies who wanted to be l337, bot and have it easy. I never saw the point of that. I had zero tolerance for their attitudes either. They were generally so bloody rude and unpleasant. And yes, the grammar Nazi in me was deeply offended by their inability to string a sentence together. I have a hard time taking a poster seriously when it looks like the post has been done by a drunk spider running across a mobile phone touch screen. It looks like they just can't be bothered.

The SPF has always had an incredibly high hit rate if you Google D2. Which is good - it brings traffic but also bad. You get people who are expecting forums like the others and it wasn't that. This is an important point. When you Google something those first few hits give you an impression of that place. To me that is part of the reason why mention of non accepted mods weren't allowed here. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, if you get hits which show Incgamers and mods we don't allow, you get people coming here who are looking for mods we don't allow, post about it and get slapped. Meanwhile anyone who knows what they are and don't want to deal, skip over the forum because they see the precise and not the full forum.

The SPF had people who were literate and mostly polite and respectful to others. As adults, they understood that not everyone could play 17 hours a day, weren't all min/maxers. They were older - or seemed older - wrote and acted in a different way. They didn't want or tolerate the nonsense that was de rigour on other forums. Their mods (Greybeard and AlterEgo back then) didn't pussy foot around. It wasn't a democracy, there were rules and if you didn't follow them, don't let the door hit you on the way out. I like straight talking and this appealed to me. Mods to the game were pretty much nada (I joined after the ATMA wars) and I liked that too. So many games seemed to be "Well, it's easier if you install <x>". And "I don't want to" is met with "you're an idiot then".

The knowledge base was incredible. Even if the FCR/FHR weren't in a Sticky, they were easily mentioned by people and linked to. It's pretty clear that the vast majority of people are here for that information. Personally I don't use the wiki; I use the links that have been around forever. But there is no denying that the SPF has always had top notch information on mechanics.

The input by the members was amazing. Pretty much any dumb question could be answered. And was. It was also answered in the way required by the OP. Not "naked amazon is dumb, use <gear> etc". People appreciated the odd ways of playing and went with it.

I personally almost quit D2 because of Duriel in Normal. I could not beat that expletiving expletive for the expletiving life of me. I actually got my housemate at the time to join an MP game and help me. I was so fracking expletived by that mob. It was good to read that others here had had similar issues and thought he was more difficult on Normal than Hell. They had great tips too. Because of them and mungo, I progressed through with an assassin that couldn't have been worse built if it was built by a drunk monkey with a dart board. Still got her. I was totally bemused by my next character who needed keys. "WTF?!"

Certain parts of the forum I didn't appreciate, nor read. But that was fine. I was there for D2 not for the EMB nor the DoOL thread. I generally don't post personal stuff on the forum. Nothing wrong with those that do, but frankly I don't see the advantage. I don't think I ventured out of the SPF after the first few attempts. I wasn't interested in trading, nor the realms, community seemed focused on Bnet (but the Stickied rules were very well done) and the OTF was a cesspit full of rude, cliquey, argumentative trolls.

There was an incredibly busy MP and trade pool. I recall joining and hosting games. I also remember hosting some PvP games and "filming" them for Liquid Evil and the PvP crowd (D00mas, Denton, et al). I wasn't a PvP'er but I was able to provide a neutral area because they were trying to find somewhere central between all participants because otherwise ping levels were going to be an issue.

Those of you who weren't here back then need to understand how BUSY this forum was. Even when I was here pretty much all the time, it was impossible to keep up with all the posts. It was manic. A new thread would be off the first page in an hour or less. The SPTF itself was incredibly busy too. I didn't have much interest in trade and it almost came to a very quick end. My first trade wound up with a PM from Catt asking about the item. I sent her emails from the guy I got it from (a long-term forum member). He was banned. Basically the item wasn't legit and he'd tried to blame me (I was new). Luckily Catt did her job as a mod and looked at the facts, not join dates or who shouts loudest. Lesson learnt; long-term member doesn't/shouldn't mean fireproof nor auto-trustworthy.

It's all a bit vague but AE left, Cattleya and Hrus were mods. The forum continued to be generally polite, helpful and knowledgeable. There were a few exceptions to this; I remember one thread which should have been a trip down memory lane turning into frag fest. Looking back, that seemed to be the start of the "committee knows best" attitude. Hrus poofed, eventually Catt asked for a co mod and I think there was a "Help wanted" thread. I could be wrong about that.

Anyone who wanted to be a mod applied and the mods considered post history, longevity, etc. I liked answering questions. I liked providing things that were clear and informative. I had the time back then. So I applied. I didn't appreciate the work that went on behind the scenes. The PMs, the nonsense, the amount of time it takes to produce the stuff you guys see like Stickies etc. (By "appreciate", I meant "comprehend" not "like".)

There were always new members who had come from the other forums, didn't read Stickies and basically thought this was the same hack-fest that they found elsewhere, but the demographic was changing and there were more of them and being greeted with what I call the "SPF pitch-fork". We've all seen it. Post 1 is something stupid (EG "I'm selling five SoJ's") and gets greeted with a group of members wanting to tear them apart. Was it a mistake to say "That's not us", rather than let the members flame them? Hard to say. It's difficult to say "We're different than elsewhere" if you're going to greet people with a pitch-fork rather than an explanation than "That's not what we do". Unfortunately, it would appear that "We don't do that" became interpreted as "Stick around, we'll change to what you want" and I think you can see that happening more and more now.

Part of the forum rules - the forum rules which members agreed to before posting, not the SPF ones - actually said "this isn't a democracy". It's a private forum and like a private club you follow the rules or ship out. I've PM'd mods and said "I don't understand why these threads are around, they're duplicates" but I got outvoted. That's fine; I just don't read them. I didn't feel the need to start a petition.

Mods are mods because they're not part of the forum clique, they aren't interested in pandying to their friends or the mob mentality. They'll looking at the whole background and history and not just who is shouting loudest today. Nor are they there to be popular. They are there to remember how we got to the current situation and not make wholesale changes that will affect a load of people; particularly when those changes are called for by people who don't have to deal with the repercussions. It's easy to say "This needs to be done" but not as easy to say "this will be the result". I saw a woman who lost her son to cancer say "There needs to be UK-wide weekend support for children who need pallative (end of life) care". Yes, but what do you cut to provide that? Mental health services (which are already stressed)? Transitioning support (for people who are already under pressure)? Care for the elderly? And true to myself, I have diverted off topic. Go me.

Couple of my most fond memories of being a mod? Teaching someone long division via Skype text during the early hours. Apparently I managed in 30 minutes what his teachers had failed to do in three years. Being on Skype/PM with someone going through hard times in the early hours. I hope talking to someone helped. Getting the Trade Rules translated into Swedish for a member who was really struggling with them because he wasn't a native English speaker. I do recall joining a Bnet game once to see the Ubers. I logged out holding someone's Enigma or other high end armour. I felt so silly. Luckily I was able to track them down and return it sharpish. "Mod stole my items" ... yeah not the image I wanted.

I miss the old days of it being busy with fun builds, tourneys, general weirdness (naked Amazons) etc. I regret that the nonsense has increased which has impacted the time available to do the fun things like guides, builds, stickies etc. I am eternally grateful to the members who have stepped up over the years to keep the Mat/Pat/Guardian, Tourney threads etc up to date. That is a HELL of a lot of work. And it doesn't go without note that the number of people willing to help with things like that (IE the work) is dramatically smaller than those who want to make changes without having to deal with the elbow grease involved.

I haven't played D2 recently. I will; I belive it is one of the most flexible games out there. However, my play style goes in cycles. I was playing City of Heroes/Villains for 15 hours a day at one point. Elite Dangerous was played to death for a bit, Planetbase got hammered. I'm currently hammering 7DaystoDie. I'll come back to DII. I still have my stashes (bless you ATMA/GoMule).

Diablo II has so many facets, objectives, ways of playing and I don't think that's matched by any game today. The SPF was the same. PvP, min/maxing, weird builds, cookie cutter builds. That's without even getting into general oddness. Go read some of the old EMB posts ... they were often role-played, not just posts.

So that's why I came and stayed.

I'd like to be able to see the same question being asked and answered in another 18 years.

If you want to post about the original post, that's fine. But if this starts to get derailed then I'm going to close it again. I will deal with the other stuff but not this minute, this day or possibly this week. I don't have the luxury of spending 24/7 at a computer screen and as I have flu, dealing with my personal responsibilities and getting well triumphs anything here.
 
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DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
I pretty much spend all day on SPF. I have cell phone and tablet for work, and I'm always checking in. Like Thy said, other D2 sites are dead and full of hacks. What am I gonna make sarcastic comments to strangers? My wife joined this site just to play in one of the Mafia games. The first thing she said to me: "Everyone on there talks like you do." :D

It also interests me since it is a global community. I grew up in the Mid-Western U.S. where exposure to other "cultures" consisted of trips to Niagara Falls, Bahamas or Cancun. This is one reason that I've settled in D.C. you get to meet people from all over the world. :)
 

ioupainmax

Diabloii.Net Member
...I miss the old days of it being busy with fun builds, tourneys, general weirdness (naked Amazons) etc. I regret that the nonsense has increased which has impacted the time available to do the fun things like guides, builds, stickies etc. I am eternally grateful to the members who have stepped up over the years to keep the Mat/Pat/Guardian, Tourney threads etc up to date...
Over time, the number of new guides and new things to learn will taper out since there are a finite number of variables (skills/classes/top end gear) and many things have already been discovered (just like land masses are well understood, now our discoveries are mostly in the oceans). Similarly, most of the surface stuff has been explored but there are still new developments like the CPU fix which dive much deeper.

The above, coupled with the age of the game and the dwindling user base as they all move on, will inevitably shift the paradigm somewhat. Perhaps there is an element of rose tinted glasses on all the nostalgic stuff too...?

We still have fun tourneys (TC3, S/U Worhippers, 99er) and ongoing general weirdness (people using every normal set in the game, trying to get to 10,000+ collective levels of mats/pats/guardians). @Thyiad, perhaps you'd feel differently if you were participating in some of those, though I know you mentioned you're playing other games.
 

MizzouFTW

Diabloii.Net Member
I liked AlterEgo. I was a lurker back then and in my early teens. I saw a post he made about his hunter druid. One of my favorite builds. Did any of you lurk or post over at the HC forum? ZappaFan was our mod but he had been MIA for a bit. The hardcore forum got just a tad out of control with spam posts. A mod from another forum, Gorny, came in and just decimated every ounce of fun and happiness. Then he posted a sticky titled, "YOUR FUN IS OCER!!!".

Did not like that guy one bit but looking back at how big a deal that was to us in gauss and banana is kind of hilarious now.
 

Drystan

Diabloii.Net Member
I initially visited the HC forum, and there seemed to be a lot of interesting and genuine people there, as well. It had the B.net vibe though, with peoples' first thoughts going towards Bnet-related advice/topics. I liked that forum, but the SPF was more focused on Single Player, tournaments and unusual challenges, and I quickly decided to stay here, instead of posting in both forums.

ioupainmax said:
Perhaps there is an element of rose tinted glasses on all the nostalgic stuff too...?
There is always this to some extent, but I don't think the concept of rose-tinted glasses really covers it here. You may remember as well, but we used to have a semi-unwritten rule: If there are already 5 active tournaments, hold off on your own until a couple are completed or start to dwindle. There were quite a few times when we had so many active tournaments going on at the same time, and still one or two members would throw in their idea to host a new tournament, and many members were involved in several tournaments at once. Tournaments quite often had 10-20+ people start up, with many not progressing too much, but good competition through Norm and NM, usually with at least one Guardian at the end.
Same with Mat/Pat/Guardian threads, build guides, and strange personal goals and challenges: We still have those now, as you pointed out, especially with the 10,000 combined levels, but with reduced activity, their frequency will reduce as well. Even with the Bar, there were always dozens of posts appearing, especially close to special numbered posts, but now, there's not nearly as much. It used to be very rare for the EMB to fall to page 2, but happens a lot [comparatively] now.

The active posting got me following some stuff (some I probably shouldn't, but... I have no excuse,) and then got the itch. 'Oh, look! A tournament that might be interesting,' and my free time has increased a little, so... It's only a handful of players participating, but it's still enough to have some really good progress as well. Now I just want to catch up to Jiansonz, as we're basically doing the same build/potential for builds, and it'll be interesting (for me) to compare what Unique/Sets he gets, and how that causes our builds to diverge.
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
On top of what I've posted before here, I'd like to add that I also came here because of my Amazon Basin background (10 years and counting). I played exacty 2 days on BNet before getting tired of all the crap going on there, found the AB and never looked back. Their welcoming nature, open mind, focus on showing some class and just have fun, that's the only kind of community I'd ever want to join. I started lurking here because a fellow AB member, who I used to do a lot of TCP/IP D2 with, became a member here when he switched from BNet games to SP games. Then I found out onderduiker was also a regular poster here. So after some talking with him about the SPF I decided to join.

The reason I say this, is because I see so many similarities between AB and the SPF. All the stuff that I value so high, and that I mentioned already: the kindness, the welcoming nature, the mature audience, the respect for each other. I wouldn't have joined this place, despite all the other stuff I mentioned in my first post in this thread (tournaments, learning, teaching and talking about D2, ...), without those.
 

maxicek

Moderator Single Player
Looking back on my gaming history, I seem to always have focussed on one game exclusively, starting with Elite on the ZX Spectrum. That may give you an idea how old I am.

In 2005 I got a new computer and there was a buy two, get one free deal on in my local games shop. I got Warcraft 3, Frozen Throne and Diablo 2. I have still hardly played WC3.

I started in SP, but had no idea what I was doing. I found this site and made a Fishymancer in BNet, but only playing in solo games. So the switch to SP was a logical step. When I first joined the only option for Mac players to mule was fast user switching in an MP game. GoMule was a godsend and this was why when my SP career really took off.

Why am I still here? Simple answer - the community. If it wasn’t for the opportunity to share my finds, odd builds and try to kill friends in PvP, I would have been finished long ago.
 
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