Question regarding Cold Mastery
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xeyloderixed
Diabloii.Net Member
ok, this might not be too accurate; for more detailed information, check at the sork forums. a summary is found below.
iirc, most monters have 33, 66 and (xxx) res from an element in hell (xx meaning past 100, so basically immune to the element). the actual cap is -100. so hmmm, a lvl 27 cold mastery is pretty much the cap for 33 cold res monsters, and 33 for the 66 res ones. however, there are only a handful of the 66 res monsters, so most people at the sork forum suggest somewhere between 10-15. however, if you do plan on hell meffing with said sork (as with most of the sorks ive seen, this seems to be the usual pastime), it is reasonable to max it; iirc hell meff has 50 cold res.
iirc, most monters have 33, 66 and (xxx) res from an element in hell (xx meaning past 100, so basically immune to the element). the actual cap is -100. so hmmm, a lvl 27 cold mastery is pretty much the cap for 33 cold res monsters, and 33 for the 66 res ones. however, there are only a handful of the 66 res monsters, so most people at the sork forum suggest somewhere between 10-15. however, if you do plan on hell meffing with said sork (as with most of the sorks ive seen, this seems to be the usual pastime), it is reasonable to max it; iirc hell meff has 50 cold res.
PhatTrumpet
Diabloii.Net Member
General PvM = slvl 17 Cold Mastery with +skills gear on
Boss-running = max
Boss-running = max
The meteorb sorc guide which was posted in the sorc forum a very long time ago discussed this.
You want CM to be lvl 17 after applying all +skill items, otherwise its essentially a waste of skill points. Lvl 17 CM is -100% to enemy cold resistance, iirc.
Typically for a sorc, lvl 10-12 works fine, since you'll have +2 on orb, +2 on ammy, +2 shako (or circlet), etc.
You want CM to be lvl 17 after applying all +skill items, otherwise its essentially a waste of skill points. Lvl 17 CM is -100% to enemy cold resistance, iirc.
Typically for a sorc, lvl 10-12 works fine, since you'll have +2 on orb, +2 on ammy, +2 shako (or circlet), etc.
ConnerMacleod
Diabloii.Net Member
That level 17 idea is STILL floating around? I'm not going to refute that, I'll just let you continue making non-killing sorcs.
UGH! I can't stand it. Ok, Cold Mastery at Skill Level 17, YES, does bring resistances down by -100%. Not TO -100%, but DOWN by -100%. I found this out last season through experimentation and lots and lots of searching.
To quote Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction, "Example."
Monster has 100 Cold resists, therefore if you have -100% CM working then the Cold Resists of that monster are at 0. Base. You cannot and will not still be able to injure or harm that monster in any way shape or form because of their cold immunity. You MUST bring their resists down below the 0 mark to begin hurting them in any way.
So if you max Cold Mastery and go nuts with the skillers/skills and get to level 35, then you are at -190%. Will you be able to kill Immune to colds then? No. Cold Mastery will NOT strip immunity from a Cold Immune Monster. Try it in Act 2 Arcane against the Ghoul Lords which are always immune to cold and IIRC they have about 110-120 cold resists. If a NECRO or a PALADIN comes in and uses Lower Resist or Conviction, then you will be able to do damage to them. Works every time.
So, what good is Cold Mastery then? Well, go into a game and go find NON-Cold Immunes. Again, Example:
Monster has 90% cold resists but is 100% immune to everything else. You cannot reduce their resists below -100%. At level 35 CM, your mastery will take them to -100% resists against cold, giving you double the normal cold damage, in theory. If it is against Mephisto, who is 75% resistant to cold always, then you take him to -100% and do double damage.
In the situation at level 17 CM, Meph's cold resist goes to -25%, and then your cold mastery allows you to do 25% more cold damage per attack. Again, double damage occurs at -100%. That's why it is a "piercing" spell, not only does it override resists but adds to the damage when it puts the monster into the negatives.
That's another reason you should not run around with negative resists, because elemental attacks do % more damage depending upon your resistance level. Get them to base 0 to absorb the normal damage, and +75 to reduce the damage by 25%.
If you max Cold Mastery, you will definitely see the monsters drop dead alot faster. This is also where the Cold Facets come in. If you build a specific character based on equipment that you have, then for each -5% jewel that you have you can adjust accordingly. Going to level 40 CM is not going to give you -215% to cold resists. There is a cap of -100% for monsters, while in PvP there is no cap (hence the reason you should stack cold resists and absorbs when dueling an orb sorc).
However, if you party up with a Necro and Paladin stacking LR and Convic, then 17 would be optimal because they will reduce it to -100% for all Non-Immunes.
Pretty simple, eh?
UGH! I can't stand it. Ok, Cold Mastery at Skill Level 17, YES, does bring resistances down by -100%. Not TO -100%, but DOWN by -100%. I found this out last season through experimentation and lots and lots of searching.
To quote Sam Jackson in Pulp Fiction, "Example."
Monster has 100 Cold resists, therefore if you have -100% CM working then the Cold Resists of that monster are at 0. Base. You cannot and will not still be able to injure or harm that monster in any way shape or form because of their cold immunity. You MUST bring their resists down below the 0 mark to begin hurting them in any way.
So if you max Cold Mastery and go nuts with the skillers/skills and get to level 35, then you are at -190%. Will you be able to kill Immune to colds then? No. Cold Mastery will NOT strip immunity from a Cold Immune Monster. Try it in Act 2 Arcane against the Ghoul Lords which are always immune to cold and IIRC they have about 110-120 cold resists. If a NECRO or a PALADIN comes in and uses Lower Resist or Conviction, then you will be able to do damage to them. Works every time.
So, what good is Cold Mastery then? Well, go into a game and go find NON-Cold Immunes. Again, Example:
Monster has 90% cold resists but is 100% immune to everything else. You cannot reduce their resists below -100%. At level 35 CM, your mastery will take them to -100% resists against cold, giving you double the normal cold damage, in theory. If it is against Mephisto, who is 75% resistant to cold always, then you take him to -100% and do double damage.
In the situation at level 17 CM, Meph's cold resist goes to -25%, and then your cold mastery allows you to do 25% more cold damage per attack. Again, double damage occurs at -100%. That's why it is a "piercing" spell, not only does it override resists but adds to the damage when it puts the monster into the negatives.
That's another reason you should not run around with negative resists, because elemental attacks do % more damage depending upon your resistance level. Get them to base 0 to absorb the normal damage, and +75 to reduce the damage by 25%.
If you max Cold Mastery, you will definitely see the monsters drop dead alot faster. This is also where the Cold Facets come in. If you build a specific character based on equipment that you have, then for each -5% jewel that you have you can adjust accordingly. Going to level 40 CM is not going to give you -215% to cold resists. There is a cap of -100% for monsters, while in PvP there is no cap (hence the reason you should stack cold resists and absorbs when dueling an orb sorc).
However, if you party up with a Necro and Paladin stacking LR and Convic, then 17 would be optimal because they will reduce it to -100% for all Non-Immunes.
Pretty simple, eh?
No, but thanks for your lengthy explanation. I guess it'll be simple when I read it a couple more times 
I'm torn between making a Meteorb sorc or an orb sorc with TK.
I assume a Meteorb sorc will kill Mephisto a lot quicker, but are the defensive properties of the Orb+TK build worth the sacrifice in versatility of the Meteorb build?
I'm torn between making a Meteorb sorc or an orb sorc with TK.
I assume a Meteorb sorc will kill Mephisto a lot quicker, but are the defensive properties of the Orb+TK build worth the sacrifice in versatility of the Meteorb build?
ConnerMacleod
Diabloii.Net Member
If you are going after meph, pure cold with max mastery will whack him super fast. Meteor has to hit, and it sometimes doesn't. Meteor is the Blizzard of fire spells.
Yea, i'm aiming to go after meph. The only issue that makes me reluctant is the current state of game lines (on west its like a 20 second wait) which isn't much but when you're doing 100+ runs it it ends up being a fair bit. Taking this into consideration i'm leaning more towards a build that can clear out large areas such as pits or ancient tunnels (this is the best area for a cold sorc?). Will a pure Orb sorc be sufficient for this sort of running?? Obviously i'll kill meph in the same game it's just the wait making games really gets to me (damn botters).
ConnerMacleod
Diabloii.Net Member
I would make the build now and then wait on what will be a massive banning. Blizzard WILL ban, just give it a little wait. There are so many people running bots at this time and clogging the servers, they WILL have final say regarding their server bandwidth. If you are legit and build now, you will have one of the higher level sorcs and will be uber rich! Woot!
PhatTrumpet
Diabloii.Net Member
I may have simplified it a bit, but if you don't understand what Conner was going after you can just go by what I said.PhatTrumpet said:
I tried to post something like this yesterday but my internet crapped the bed. The idea is that, in Hell, some monsters have no resistance to cold, some have a decent resistance to cold, and the rest are immune to cold. In getting your Cold Mastery to slvl 17 you increase your effective damage against everything, but as you go past that you only increase your effectiveness against resistant monsters (and immune monsters with broken immunities due to LR or Convic).
Bosses are resistant to cold: Andy ~ 50%, Meph ~ 75%, DClone ~ 95% (these are guesses). So if you want to get all technical about it, you'd need slvl 27 Cold Mastery to maximize your effective damage against Andariel in Hell, slvl 32 CM for Hell Meph, and slvl 36 CM for DClone.
So back to your last question: there are Pits with no cold immunes aside from the occasional Boss. I believe the most popular ones are Ancient Tunnels, Crypt, and Mausoleum. And by now, pure cold Sorcs are the Meph-runners of choice for hardcore. The choice between Blizzard and Orb seems to be more about personal preference, but I have tried both. My general impression is that Blizzard tends to be the more offensive skill and a very versatile route, while Orb is more for safety and single targets.
Blizzard's damage, stackability, and radius/range make it ideal for pit-type runs in multiplayer games and even solo Baal runs. However, investing in synergies for more damage gives you far less points for safety/support skills like TK, ES, Static, Teleport, and Warmth. It's always best to max Blizzard first, then get Cold Mastery to at least 17, then start working on synergies, as the 5% from Mastery works on your full Blizzard damage while the 5% from synergies works only on your base Blizzard damage. Blizzard is also very effective in untwinked solo play as you can start pumping Ice Blast early on as a synergy and use it to kill (upwards of 100-120 damage as you approach lvl 24).
Orb is the "safe" route, and is just about as effective for Meph runs as Blizzard, if not more so. That's the only place it really beats out Blizzard, though. 70%+ ES with maxed TK can make for a very durable Sorc, but ES being factored in before resists requires you to have a rather large mana pool to truly make it effective, something not always available to those with average gear.
So my vote definitely goes with Blizzard.
STINGER
Diabloii.Net Member
If you have the gear, and the urge to stay at Orb distance and you merc has the gear to live while you do it a good orb will kill meph faster.
If you have a weak merc, not so great gear and maybe even less than optimum rez then the long range Blizz, Met, Fireball, FW, Hydra are IMO the better choices.
If you are one of those guys that sacrafice rez to poor on tons of MF the I also suggest the longer range skill.
Now......there is a "myth" that blizz needs all its synergies to be a good killer and personally from my sxp it is a bull. My last ladder Blizz Sorc had Max Bliz, Glacial, and Mastery with 17 Telek and 5 in Blast with minimal +skills for having Godly gear since she used a Wizzy/Whitstans. She also had no facets. She killed very well solo, actually extremely quick with 95% of things, and Meph and Andy solo were a piece of cake. i could kill Pindle and his crown in basically 6-7 clicks of the mouse and 3 of those are teleports, (2) Glacial and 1 or 2 Blizz. Only exception was when he was immune then i would static and Telek hum while merc killed him or maybe use lightning.
My sorc started with reasonable gear, but only +1 skill when she first started hell runs but she had max rez and FCR with decent FHR and a solid 900+ life and max block. This isnt always possible, especially this early for your say 10-15 hour a week or less players. Hell I dont even have the gear for it yet and i play much more than that.
She also killed very adequately in Big games like Baal runs. In my private runs many times i was the only sorc and no hammerdins in 4-6 player runs with the clan. We did fast runs, not those 2-3 min ones but they were not long due to me not killing.
With a LR wand she could kill DC but it wasnt fast by any means.
The key to Blizz IMO is staying at the range......Mephs biggist hitter is that Orb. With Blizz and those other ranged attacks you can kill him and he cant even attack you. With Orb as your killing skill you must be at your orb range for a fast kill and that puts you in his Orb range thus if you ahve a weak Merc and or weak gear or poor rez you are asking for trouble.
Also......I may have just never witnessed it, but i never saw a single Orb sorc that killed near as fast as Met or Blizz in a Baal run, or in PvM with big packs.
Also, Personally I find the Blizz/Glacial a much safer PvM build questing. I tend to walk with Glacial prepared, monster show up, I slap them wiht a Glacial and they turn blue and pose for a picture!!! They dont go anywhere unless immune or highly resistant like moonlords. Follwo that up with 1-2 Blizz and almost everythign dies quickly that isnt immune or highly resistant.
Also, in Baal or CS runs or questing Glacial can allow you to totally freeze and immobalize EVERY minion pack or boss seal pack. It doesnt freeze the bosses themselves, but normally due to how the spawn they are usually behind thier minions or in the middle thus freezing all the minions traps them or doesnt allow them to get to you quickly.
Now, i am not here to say ORB SUCKS, BLIZZ RULES i am just simply listing why my preference for any cold sorc is Blizz.
Now....bad things about Blizz.
Longer timer
Things do tend to somehow stand right in the middle of the blizzard and not take damage at times. i simply teleport and allow them to move and they walk into it.
Moving targets are a bit harder to target but with the Glacial that takes care of it in most cases.
If you have a weak merc, not so great gear and maybe even less than optimum rez then the long range Blizz, Met, Fireball, FW, Hydra are IMO the better choices.
If you are one of those guys that sacrafice rez to poor on tons of MF the I also suggest the longer range skill.
Now......there is a "myth" that blizz needs all its synergies to be a good killer and personally from my sxp it is a bull. My last ladder Blizz Sorc had Max Bliz, Glacial, and Mastery with 17 Telek and 5 in Blast with minimal +skills for having Godly gear since she used a Wizzy/Whitstans. She also had no facets. She killed very well solo, actually extremely quick with 95% of things, and Meph and Andy solo were a piece of cake. i could kill Pindle and his crown in basically 6-7 clicks of the mouse and 3 of those are teleports, (2) Glacial and 1 or 2 Blizz. Only exception was when he was immune then i would static and Telek hum while merc killed him or maybe use lightning.
My sorc started with reasonable gear, but only +1 skill when she first started hell runs but she had max rez and FCR with decent FHR and a solid 900+ life and max block. This isnt always possible, especially this early for your say 10-15 hour a week or less players. Hell I dont even have the gear for it yet and i play much more than that.
She also killed very adequately in Big games like Baal runs. In my private runs many times i was the only sorc and no hammerdins in 4-6 player runs with the clan. We did fast runs, not those 2-3 min ones but they were not long due to me not killing.
With a LR wand she could kill DC but it wasnt fast by any means.
The key to Blizz IMO is staying at the range......Mephs biggist hitter is that Orb. With Blizz and those other ranged attacks you can kill him and he cant even attack you. With Orb as your killing skill you must be at your orb range for a fast kill and that puts you in his Orb range thus if you ahve a weak Merc and or weak gear or poor rez you are asking for trouble.
Also......I may have just never witnessed it, but i never saw a single Orb sorc that killed near as fast as Met or Blizz in a Baal run, or in PvM with big packs.
Also, Personally I find the Blizz/Glacial a much safer PvM build questing. I tend to walk with Glacial prepared, monster show up, I slap them wiht a Glacial and they turn blue and pose for a picture!!! They dont go anywhere unless immune or highly resistant like moonlords. Follwo that up with 1-2 Blizz and almost everythign dies quickly that isnt immune or highly resistant.
Also, in Baal or CS runs or questing Glacial can allow you to totally freeze and immobalize EVERY minion pack or boss seal pack. It doesnt freeze the bosses themselves, but normally due to how the spawn they are usually behind thier minions or in the middle thus freezing all the minions traps them or doesnt allow them to get to you quickly.
Now, i am not here to say ORB SUCKS, BLIZZ RULES i am just simply listing why my preference for any cold sorc is Blizz.
Now....bad things about Blizz.
Longer timer
Things do tend to somehow stand right in the middle of the blizzard and not take damage at times. i simply teleport and allow them to move and they walk into it.
Moving targets are a bit harder to target but with the Glacial that takes care of it in most cases.
ConnerMacleod
Diabloii.Net Member
Phat: Didn't understand what I was going for? huh? I was giving the actual mechanics behind how CM best works. From there a person should extrapolate or interpolate the data (I forget which) and build their sorc accordingly.
Because god forbid, you build a sorc wrong, that means you have to relevel the most unplayed build on the realms!
Because god forbid, you build a sorc wrong, that means you have to relevel the most unplayed build on the realms!
PhatTrumpet
Diabloii.Net Member
ConnerMacleod said:
That's all I was referring to.ZounceHC said: