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Question on Fishmancer

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by MDBitter, Feb 13, 2004.

  1. MDBitter

    MDBitter IncGamers Member

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    Question on Fishmancer

    Hi all,
    I have 2 questions really... 1st is about the Mephy "map." I am curious he talks about finding a good map to make runs short. Doesn't the map layout change everytime you create a new game? I mephy alot with blizzard sorc but after reading this article this question came to mind cuz it seems to me that the map changes everytime. 2nd is the whole golem thing. He talks about crushing blow. What is better a clay golem that slows boss down? or a iron golem? And if I decide to put my xtra skills into a golem, do I max the golem of my choice or the golem mastery? Now lets say I do pick a iron golem. He talks about Crushing Blow which I will refer to as CB for the rest of this thread. You make ur iron golem out of a IK maul for CB... I am confused on this. Does the golem just go until he dies and then u remake him with an item? Or do youjust keep feeding him while he is alive? My second question on CB is this... he talks about a sword with 6 sockets... is this for me to wear when killing bosses? or for me to make my iron golem out of. If it is for me to wear, this brings up 2 more question... 1st is wouldn't I rather wear mf while I kill and 2nd if I wear CB items does it mean ALL my army has CB attributes? Anyway that is it for now.... if I think of any more I will post but plz read and respond thouroughly in words I can understand since I am completely new to Necro! :)
    ~Bitter
     
  2. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Clay is the better Golem. When putting points in a Golem, just pump the Golem. The IG keeps on going until he dies.

    The sword is for making the Golem, I think.
     
  3. Funda

    Funda IncGamers Member

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    First question: Nightfish plays SP only (it is written in the guide). In SP you can generate good map when you swap between dificulties several times. In MP games map changes everytime.
     
  4. belth

    belth IncGamers Member

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    There's a bunch of pregenerated maps the game chooses from, after enough running and paying (a lot of) attention, you'll remember them. I have a "gut feeling" where the lvl3 stairs are in Durance2 on half my runs, same with WSK lvl2 and 3. Rest of the time, I get to cover way over half the map before finding the stairs though :p
     
  5. MDBitter

    MDBitter IncGamers Member

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    I C about the singer player map generation. I am still curious on the golem issue though. I believe from what he is talking about, pumping up the mastery is better cuz it ups golems life... by doing so he takes more hits and using iron golem it kills the attacker... make sense? plz respond with suggestions. As far as the iron golem goes.. sounds like a good idea for bosses but it sounds like to me fishmancer uses iron golem for runs cuz it ACTUALLY does dmg. make sense? again, suggestions?
    ~MDBitter
     
  6. Xiamet

    Xiamet IncGamers Member

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    The idea between a CG and an IG is whether or not you're wanting it for damage (IG) or for the effect it has on Bosses (CG) and such.

    For the IG, it's best if you utilise a weapon that has some sort of CB mod on it, or -Target Defense%, which is what I think the Fishymancer guide suggests. A spare IK maul makes a pretty good IG, with the exception of the Iron Maiden curse, which will insta-kill it and there goes your IG. If you plan on never dealing with Knights ever again...you'll be fine.

    The CG doesn't pack a whole lot of damage, but it's not used for that prpose. Rather, it's used to slow down the enemy it hits. This is especially good with Bosses like Baal, Diablo etc. Best part is, you can stack the effects of Slow with Decrepify, the best curse to use on Bosses hands down. Slowed to a crawl, they're much easier to deal with that way. And you can recast over and over again.

    The choice ultimately is based on your play style I guess...and your availability of good weapons/armor for IG's.

    -X
     
  7. Paradox of Reality

    Paradox of Reality IncGamers Member

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    The sword he talks about is a 6 socket phase blade socketed with 4 eth and 2 shael for use with the crushing blow variant that is designed to run the World Stone Keep and Baal.

    Yes it's for you to wear, however it's affects in no way transfer over to your minions, only damage you inflict with melee or ranged attacks are affected.

    As for the mf, according to the guide, most of your gear would be mf equipment, with one weapon switch having gull on it for mf and the other the above mentioned sword for the actual fighting.
     
  8. MDBitter

    MDBitter IncGamers Member

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    See I dont get this... isn't the point of necro to sit back safe with mf on while minions kill all... if I was actually fighting then I would need gear to live and that sword he talks about. I almost want to think he wants to make that sword simply to make an IG out of it... but not sure... I don't think he meant for me to wear a 6 socket sword but to have it for IG. But either way the important thing is this.
    What to do with the xtra points after fishmancer base. I want to do ALL mf runs... pits, baal, mephy, etc. I dont know if I should do resist curse... etc etc etc. IF I do build a golem for mfing... should I choose a golem and pump up it? or the mastery... cant do both. I believe in the guide he mentions the mastery but want a second opinion... I would appreciate it if you are just guessing and dont really know... DONT RESPOND... you "thinking this is right" is not the point of this post. Thanks ALOT for your help!
    ~MDBitter
     
  9. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    First things first. You writing style is bad. Please use "enter" next time to seperate the various subjects. Thank you.

    Nightfish wants you to get items with CB on them. With this CB the average time it takes to kill a Boss will be cut drastically, allowing you to do more runs in the same timeframe.

    Because the CB that you wear only works when you hit bosses with a weapon, Nightfish said to get that 6 socket sword. You will need to pump in 4 Eth runes. This makes sure that Bosses get -100% defense. Because ITD doesn't work on bosses, you will need to use 4 Eth runes. Then you pump in 2 Shael runes to make you attack faster. With this weapon you have a fast swinging ITD weapon. This allows you to get lots and lots of CB upon the enemy.

    With the large number of minions running around you do not need to gear yourself for Melee. You can still wear MF stuff.






    If you are getting a Clay Golem pump the golem itself. With IG pump Mastery.

    When we answer with "I think this is right" we give out ideas. This almost always prompts someone to either confirm or repute the info given. So even if we do not know for sure, the correct info will surface and we will all learn something. This board was set-up for learning.
     
  10. MDBitter

    MDBitter IncGamers Member

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    when I think CB, I think IK Maul or something. This 6 socket sword that keeps being talked about... has no CB. And when you say get items with CB on them. Is this to make IG out of them? Or to wear? Because I would rather wear gull dagger than CB item.

    Again, rather wear gull dagger unless you are talking about making IG out of it? Please clarify... sorry if I seem ********, I am just new to this.

    BTW, I did my first hell pit run with 400+ MF and found one rare... did I do something wrong? Maybe I mfed the wrong area?

    ~MDBitter
     
  11. Daimyo

    Daimyo IncGamers Member

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    The six-socket phase blade is to allow your necromancer, who has piss-poor dexterity, no AR to speak of, absolutely laughable melee damage, and truly pathetic swing speed to hit something. You're just trying to hit something. You'll be wearing high % chance crushing blow items (like Guillaume's Face, for example). The goal here is that you'll be taking boss life down extremely quickly via your minions' normal damage plus your own crushing blow.
     
  12. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    CB can come on lots of different Items. Look around for them. Daimyo gave a fine example.



    MF can come on all sorts of items. Exchanging Gull for this sword will not make a huge difference. You only need like 300 MF. But what will make a differance is your killing speed with this sword. You'll kill bosses very fast and use your 300 or so MF to get good drops. The increase in killing speed will more than make up for the loss in MF.

    Since MF is all about chance it is not guaranteed that you will find good items every time you MF. Although MF equipment helps, it is still about chance.
     
  13. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    Baal has these stats in Hell in a 1 player game
    Level 99
    Hit Points 493,701 (ladder)
    Defence Rating 2847 (ladder)
    Physical Resitance 50%
    Blocking Rate 55%

    Also your merc and minions only do 25% damage to End of Act bosses in Hell. Fortunately, he does not regenerate or all would be lost. The high level 99 and DR means your skellies only hit with a small proportion of their attacks (say 40%, depending on their level)

    This is why it takes a Skellimancer an age (can be 10 to 15 mins) to kill Baal even if you use Decrepify and the Clay Golem to hold him transfixed. The Decrepify only cancels his 50% Physical Resist. The effective rate of damage by the merc and skellies is about 1000 per second in total.

    There are two ways to get rid of a lot of hitpoints quickly and speed up the process, crushing blow and static field. Static field is available in the Cresent Moon weapon runeword and several other weapons but it is capped at 50% of the basic hit points ... so it can only double the killing speed. Nice but cb can do better.

    Each crushing blow can remove a basic 1/10 (or maybe 1/8) of a bosses hit points, modified by physical resistance (so Decrepify helps here by reducing Baal's 50% to 0%) and further modified by the minion penalty (if you equiped your Merc with cb stuff) and by a further ranged penalty of 50%. So the first crushing blow on Baal can remove 50,000 hp if you deliver it yourself using a dagger or a phase blade and say 13000 if your Merc does. Subsequent crushing blows do progressively less damage but as long as you get say 10 hits your Merc and minions can do the rest.

    I hope these numbers have illustrated why crushing blow can be very worthwhile for killing an Act Boss and for a skellimancer in particular.
     
  14. Indemaijinj

    Indemaijinj IncGamers Member

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    This is only partially true.

    Diablo 2 generates random maps by randomly choosing between various pregenerated square "map tiles". This is why certain structures will always seem rather familiar.
     
  15. Vizier

    Vizier IncGamers Member

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    It was my understanding that the eth runes's effect were not summed, but progressively applied in diminishing returns, just like MF. Or maybe that only applies to 1.09

    The way I had seen it in other FAQs a while back was that the first eth removed 25% of the target's defense. The second eth removed 25% of the remaining 75% which comes out to 18.75%. So two eths reduce defense by 43.75% instead of 50% The point is you don't get the same effect as a jah rune's ITD, but can approach it with enough runes.

    Here's the calcs:
    first eth: .25*100 = 25% which leave target's def at 75%
    sec eth: .25*75 = 18.75 leaving 56.25%
    3'rd eth: .25*56.25 = 14.0625 leaving 42.185%
    4'th eth: .25*42.185 = 10.54625 leaving 31.63875%


    Again ,maybe 1.10 has changed this. Eth was bugged in 1.09 anyway.
    It sounds like the guide (I havent'read it myself - sorry) was using untwinked items. Ultimately, a 6-socket crystal sword should have a jah and 5 bers, giving ITD and a good chance of crushing blow.
     
  16. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    When I first read the description I also thought that multiple Eth's would work that way, but apparently they don't.
     
  17. nataku00

    nataku00 IncGamers Member

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    Nightfish suggests a 6 socket phase blade with 4 eth and 2 shael socketed in the sword because the mod "Ignore target's defense" which comes on a jah does not work on Act bosses while the '-% of target defense' on eth does. You don't really need to waste valuable bers on the weapon when you can get 60% crushing blow with guillaume's face (35% cb) and goblin toe (25% cb). The whole idea with the set-up, as explained earlier, is to make sure a necro with little dex and ar bonuses is able to hit baal with the weapon (due to a supposed -100% def from 4 eths) and then let your high chance of cb take him down to low health. At this point, your minions should be able to finish the job. I haven't tried his build (though I was thinking about doing it as my first ladder char since necs don't need great equip to play), so I can't say much as to the effectiveness of the strategy.
     

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