Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Question on Fire Golem

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Darker Realm, Nov 6, 2006.

  1. Darker Realm

    Darker Realm IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Question on Fire Golem

    I noticed that the fire golem takes damage from Iron Maiden from Oblivion Knights, although it takes quite a few hits from the Golem to kill itself. So this mean that somehow or somewhere, either the fire damage is physical or the attack is physical in nature.

    1) Does Fire Golem benefit from attack rating despite its elemental nature? I notice that sometimes the golem misses when it hits without an AR aura

    2) Does Fire Golem benefit from amplify damage? I tried this before and it did not yield any noticeable difference from amping and without amping.

    3) Does Fire Golem benefit from Might (and Concentration)? I know it will benefit from the AR and IAS from Fanaticism. I haven't gotten a chance to test my Fire Golem with might from my might merc on my first necromancer and might from Last Wish on my third necromancer.
     
  2. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    120
    1) Yes, his attack relies on AR to hit.
    2) The Fire Golem has a very small physical damage under the fire damage. It will be affected, but you wont notice a difference.
    3) See 2). The very small physical damage will be affected by damage auras. Again you will barely notice any difference.

    I don't mean to be harsh, but it makes me wonder why you are using a Fire Golem in the first place, being the weakest golem in the game since, well, the start of patch 1.10 pretty much. And even before then, Blood Golem + Iron Maiden was more effective. IMO Summoners/all Necros should stick to Clay or Iron Golems.
     
  3. HYKO

    HYKO IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    But fire golem looks cool!!:laugh:



     
  4. Darker Realm

    Darker Realm IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    212
    I've been using Fire Golem for four years up to 1.11; I don't think one person's opinion applies to the status quo of my army.

    First, your impression of the golem's effectiveness is severely out of date as 1.11 had several runewords worth mentioning for the benefit of the Fire Golem: Infinity, Pride, Beast, and Last Wish. Your argument that Fire Golem has some amount of its damage being physical works actually works against your reasoning because having some physical damage makes it receive benefits from all of these auras. I wish you or someone else could be more clear on how much % is the Fire Golem's attack physical, and how much % elemental.

    Second, your choice of words describing the Fire Golem "being the weakest golem in the game service" is of poor consideration. Do you mean that it has poor damage, or do you mean that it has low hit points? There is no golem that deals more damage than the Fire Golem, and maxing Fire Golem is an absolute must if you want an offensive Iron Golem. The lower the hit points of the Fire Golem, the better, as you want the golem to blow up, dealing 3000 damage by itself and about 500 straight damage PvP at a certain slvl. Realistically, you'd want more hit points on the Fire Golem for mana reasons and in prolonged games. If you are still not satisfied you can use Battle Orders.

    Third, if you personally think it is weak let my Fire Golem hit you while I curse you with Lower Resist and shine you with Conviction. My Fire Golem has no problem doing reasonable and significant damage to any non Fire-immune and has no problem doing literally burning damage when using base slvl 20 Lower resist, which does consistently -65 to all resists including fire on my +skills.

    Fourth, if you have a fire-based character, good luck with hurting my golem. If you have a necromancer that uses Clay Golem, good luck dueling with fire sorceresses.

    Fifth, the majority of Fire Golem users don't know how to use Fire Golem anyway. Most players assume Fire Golem is the most useful of all golems because it seems to be the most useful golem at first, and then fail to develop on the skill because of seemingly lack of results in late Nightmare and Hell.

    Sixth, I have several 92s+ Necromancers that uses Fire Golem; I have had mcuh experience with all golems excluding Blood and I have found that Fire Golem is the most effective for an offensive-based summoner. If none of your minions - skeletons, mages, revives, mercenary, and the golem itself have problems with staying alive there is absolutely no use for Clay or Blood Golem. As for Iron Golem, using Fire no longer requires players to invest an item for effective combat. Defensive-wise, I have found it to be equally as helpful when facing unbreakable PI monsters as I see my entire army and myself getting slowed down while the Fire Golem pulls through and becomes the main instrument of attack.

    Seventh, Fire Golem is extremely useful for Mfing in Normal Difficulty because its Holy Fire Aura mows everything on the screen down in 1 second from Acts 1 and 2 at slvls 30-35 or more, and with Lower Resist can mow everything down in 1-2 Holy Fire hits in Acts 3 and 4, and with Lower Resist + Conviction can mow everything down in Acts 1 and 5. All this is excluding use of Dream, HoJ, or Dragon, which would be used in an a realistic Mfing scenario.

    I am quite aware of the benefits of Clay Golem, as I have used it for a long time before I switched to Fire for some of my necromancers. For example, traditional bone necromancers clearly benefit from the Clay Golem. I think it is a flawed judgement to say that ALL necromancers should stick to Clay or Iron Golem. Dozens of guides were written (e.g. Poisonmancer) that based the entire survival of the build on the existence of a Fire Golem. That would be an attack on every one of the authors who spent so much time thinking about the build and writing the guide. If anything, it just reduces the diversity of Necromancer builds and above all gives the wrong impression to other character classes that we are all weak and rely on using nasty things that weaken other players in order to level the playing field. We are sorcerors after all, and we need to prevail over the female mage class in elemental magics (Lower Resist, Corpse Explosion, Fire Golem, Undead Mage), become experts in ranged attack (piercing: Bone Spear, homing: Bone Spirit) be effective combatants in melee conditions (Bone Armor, Iron Maiden, Poison Dagger).
     
  5. HYKO

    HYKO IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Umm... I don't know.. I have always used fire golem just because it looks way cool and the holy fire is good in attracting the monsters. However I really don't think any golems are really for damage dealing. Fire golem in lv 40 still only deal 1k damage, to me its a good tank but not a good damage source.
     
  6. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Sparky drives the monsters crazy. His Holy Fire aura makes him public enemy #1, which logically makes me public enemy #2, or possibly even lower. Anything that enemies love attacking more than they love attacking me is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. :)



     
  7. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Hey... sorry about that. In hindsight, I realise I shouldn't thrust my opinions upon others.

    I read your post thoroughly, and I agree you've made some really good points. I have skimmed through a couple of poisonmancer guides in the past, and they each advocate the use of ol' Sparky to finish off foes, which I understand the reason completely.

    I dunno, I just don't think another 600 fire damage is going to make much of a difference on top of an army of 40 minions dealing 30000+ damage per "swing". Especially since since it needs a 20 point skill investment too. That's where I prefer Gumby (Clay), as it provides that slow effect in monsters which helps the army as a whole. But, I'm talking from my summoner's point of view...

    I guess next time, I should think before I rant, and try and be more considerate to all.

    P.S. isn't the golem's explosion a flat 100 fire/physical damage? Or does it scale with skill level? I'd like to know that.
     
  8. Darker Realm

    Darker Realm IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    212
    I'm quite sure that a decent Fire Golem on even a hybrid Summoner/Warrior (melee) build I use should do from 800-1000 flat fire damage at skill levels 32-36. Since I have several necromancers with Fire Golem maxed, usually, when I summon a level Fire Golem I would be wearing:

    +2 from a summoning amulet or a dual-skill necromancer amulet
    +2 from any necromancer circlet whether it be rare/magic or Delirium
    +2 from Enigma
    +4 from Spirit sword and Spirit shield
    +3 from a Hellfire Torch (I don't know if purists use this)
    +1 from just one Summoning GC or one Annihilus Charm

    After I summon my Golem I take off my circlet or Delirium and switch on my regular helm. Now because I'm not pure and I don't consider myself to be as wealthy as the average caster class you find online, this leaves room for a lot of improvement. Ideally I could get in addition:

    at least +1 more on the weapon from Cairn Shard, HotO
    +2 more on the shield by using a +4 to Fire Golem shrunken head
    +1 from SoJ
    +1 from SoJ
    +1 from Arachnid Mesh

    Then the Fire Golem should be doing around 1200 in damage, which is a decent supplement to your army. So we will take this 1200 theoretical damage and take it to my actual game experience.

    Case I.

    Two of my necromancers have no Lower Resist ability. At first impression, it would seem like a waste of points on Fire Golem if you are not going to use it with the Lower Resist skill. However, you can still obtain Might, Concentration, and/or Fanaticism (not to mention Heart of Wolverine), which I have one or more of these auras. Because we concluded that the Fire Golem has at least in some part physical damage, the golem would be benefitting in some way in damage from these auras. However, the golem's AR would increase, making it hit more often and thus doing more damage (from Fanaticism and Heart of Wolv.), and the golem's attack speed would increase, doing more damage.

    I use both necromancer often and when fighting Hell monsters, I see the golem is able to take down, without any auras, Ghosts and Wraiths in about 3-4 hits, most monsters in 4-6 hits, and big monsters like Gargauntuan Beasts or Urdars in more hits, although I do see their life bar go down. I haven't tested it with the auras on the Fire Golem besides Might because I just asked if the aura was beneficial in this thread.

    Case II.

    I have another necromancer that has Lower Resist maxed, same base slvl 20 Fire Golem. After using Lower Resist (-65% to all resistances) and from Infinity's slvl 12 Conviction (-85% to elemental resistances, -83% to enemy defense), I should be doing at least double that 1200 damage figure we obtained. Let's place it at 2000 damage. From my experience, I see that now the Fire Golem is transformed from a summon that doesn't die that easily and does reasonable damage, to a summon that actually burns his enemy with his fire damage, doing about the same damage as a Act 2 Mercenary not using Might and using a non-eth weapon. Remember, fire damage is consistent unlike lightning so although we boast a modest amount of damage, say 2k, you can be assurred that it will be guaranteed damage. Most players on Battle.net like to talk in terms of their maximum damage, but fire is faithful and in the end this would mean, dangerous.

    For a pure summoner who has his Skeleton Warriors maxed, I'm sure that each skeleton would do very good damage at extremely high skill levels almost comparable to a Fire Golem and it would be a good investment to put a point or more on Clay if you wanted to save the points for Bone Armor. Even then, the purely offensive summoner could choose to put less points on Bone Armor, and find a new outlet, Fire Golem, after he has maxed his usual skills, RS, RM, and SM. I never said points were necessary on Golem Mastery, so you could put no more than one on it if you need the skills for something else. My point here is, that Fire Golem is undenialbly better than Clay Golem for certain classes of summoners. One important conclusion from this is that Fire Golem is the absolute choice if you want to MF.

    It is easy to find the quickest and highest damage solution (which is using skeletons) and max the skill, and it would do comparably well. But, as we learned, there are just some properties that are not found on say, Skeletons, than Fire Golem.

    All this time we are speaking and comparing in terms of golems and nothing else. Ceterus parabus, or hypothetically, Fire Golems deserve equal recognition with the other two classes of golems - Iron and Clay. Whether it is Implemented depends on the type of build and the purpose you use it for.

    I'm not yet an engineer and not yet a D2 character class guide writer, so I don't have the problem-solving background to have a final say on finding the truthfully most effective choice for a particular build. I have much to learn even on the properties of the Fire Golem itself, which was the reason why I posted this thread. We're all limited in experience (as you said :smiley:) so the best thing we can do is learn from each other and piece different experiences together. Now maybe we could get together and each put a little thought as to figuring out what we don't know.. :

    ---

    The splash damage from the Fire Golem exploding is a little exploited and little used feature in Diablo II, but I considered that it might be effective quite a while back, I just never had a chance to test it out. If you take my Case II and apply the Lower Resist + Conviction technique it might even become a new way of killing bosses or dueling. Also, I think using the splash damage on the golem would be most effective on some kind of Lord of Magi build and then the trick here is to minimize the amount of hit points on the golem, so it blows up more often. This would also mean that this will finally become a build that requires some investment in Energy/Mana (I'm thinking of anywhere from 50 - 100 on Energy?). We'll talk more about this later.

    I have no clue on how much fire damage the explosion does but I'll look for it. I think at increasing skill levels of Fire Golem the explosion would hurt more. Also we talked about that the Fire Golem does a tiny bit of physical damage. I'd like to find out exactly how much, does anyone know?
     
  9. bogie

    bogie IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    The damage from fire golem is greater than you think. Using perfect gear, I got my fire golem dmg up to aroung 3750 fire damage, and around 300+ pulse damage, its quite good actually (thinks of builds where it would be useful)
     
  10. HYKO

    HYKO IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Sounds cool that you using fire golem to kill but i dun think u need to max lower resist.
    It get diminishing return... I really wouldn't spend more then 1 point in it.



     
  11. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    120
    I'm going to think about this for a while... Plug it through a skill calc... Think about it some more...

    Who knows, you may yet convert me to the Spark side...
     
  12. Darker Realm

    Darker Realm IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Ever since playing the original Diablo, I see the fire golem as an well improved version of the Sorceror's Elemental spell. I know the developers are aware of this. Instead of a suicidal orange running bombman, the Fire Golem is actually a real fire elemental. The only reason it's called a golem is because the Necromancer wishes it to function that way. It is intelligent, seeks out enemies and has various forms of attack, follows you around with absolute loyalty. Not only does it look cool but it sounds extremely powerful when it attacks - it sounds like a megaton bomb going off every time.

    All the more better with one point. If you put one point in it you'll still get above -100% lowered resistances with Infinity. I put 20 because I wanted stacked lower resists in PvP, which cuts down reliance on my merc. It was one of my first elemental necromancers in 1.11 and I didn't have the resources to get Infinity yet at that time.

    3k fire damage and 300 holy fire damage? It sounds pretty good. Much more powerful than a single maxed out skeleton and more durable too. This would mean that the 3k would benefit from the auras and curses even more. The problem in Hell Difficulty is that monsters heal, so you need to get something to break through that healing rate. Have you guys ever been in the situation where you had maybe around 10 skeletons and 10 mages out in Chaos Sanctuary, but because they're so spread out they can't do real damage and they die one by one while the monsters heal themselves.

    I did some testing today, found out that Amplify Damage and Might do indeed increase the damage of the golem, by a bit.

    Sorry one correction to my previous post: "I see the golem is able to take down, without any auras, Ghosts and Wraiths in about 3-4 hits, most monsters in 4-6 hits, and big monsters like Gargauntuan Beasts or Urdars in more hits" This is inaccurate, I meant after Might Aura and Amplifiy Damage. Also there is a wider discrepancy for me just to say, it hits in about 3-4 hits. For example, without any aura or curse my Golem can kill some Spine Beasts in Hell in 1 or 2 hits. Also, I saw my Golem whoop the Carvers and Devilkin in about 3 hits because of their low life. Otherwise it takes a while without Fanaticism and Concentration. I'll test those two soon combined with Might and Amp Damage.



     
  13. Eilo Rytyj

    Eilo Rytyj IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    120
    According to our friendly neighbourhood German Skill Calculator, a Fire Golem at skill level 50 does 838-916 fire damage, 43-45 pulse damage and 10-27 physical damage. The pulse is apparently capped at 43-45, unless the skill calculators (I tested a couple) are all broken. The physical damage portion is a constant 10-27, and is affected by the damage auras.

    Comparatively, a single skeleton with maxed skeleton/mastery at that skill level (50) will deal ~975 damage, not to mention there will be 18 of them, and will receive large damage bonuses from the damage auras and Amplify Damage.

    Sure, 838-916 is very nice damage, but it's a little short of the stated 3k damage/300 pulse. You'd need a slvl 99 Fire Golem to get to at least 1500 damage, which would result in 3000 damage at -100% resist. Something not achievable on Closed realms I'm afraid.

    Hrmm... my brain feels fried. Perhaps if I remake my pure summoner necro, I'll try out a super-buff Sparky Golem. People also say that Magi are weak, but their overall effectiveness far out-weighs their lack of "godly" damage.

    One big concern is that at level 50, Sparky costs a whopping 540 mana, which at base Energy (of which I play all of my characters no less) may be an issue.

    I still stand by my opinion that Clay Golem is the best choice of the pure summoner, though. But you've definately opened a few doors on the subject of the Fire Golem for me.
     
  14. HYKO

    HYKO IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2006
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Still, at like 4-6 % difference..i wouldn't invest on it. Just me though :laugh:



     
  15. Darker Realm

    Darker Realm IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    212
    No No No Goodness No! I Fear this calculator has hardened your opinion on this because even I would not use Fire Golem at all if the damage was that low? That calculator is broken. Use Mod Edit: You aren't allowed to link to that site as it sells items.



    Damage: 18-47 (H)
    Fire Damage: 929-993
    Holy Fire 89-91

    I don't think it does 3k raw damage either, but according to the site, the golem will do about 1.5k damage. Then after lower resists and a few auras it should hit 3k.

    But if my slvl 36 golem is useful for MFing in normal right now, imagine what a slvl 45-50 damage can do from the pulse damage. Then combine it with Lower Resist + Holy Freeze, Shock, or Fire to seal the monsters' fate in one pulse (probably use Dream because it has MF on it).

    So the physical damage Is stated here: 18-47. With Amplify alone it is 36-94. An Act 2 Might Mercenary at level 90 (base level 26 Might, found here) would boost the 18-47 by 290%, this is without Doom, CoH, or CoA, and scales up as your merc levels. So this would be about 3X, 44-141 and **-282 (185 avg) after just Might and Amp. Now this answers my original question. Still have to figure out the fire splash damage from the explosion.

    Again I emphasize that if someone had 1 RS, 1 RM, 1 Revive, 20 Skeleton Mastery, 1 Golem Mastery, it is easy to pour points on Raise Skeleton and get that ~975 per skeleton (about 18 of them), but that remember it costs 40 skill points and mastering Fire Golem will cost about 21 skill points. It's like comparing honeydew melons to oranges, which can't be done in a realistic situation because of different skill level numbers and different uses.

    Then you ask, why don't you use Mages instead of Fire Golem? They do 300 average damage and can total to be about 4500 with 15 mages. Because the moment you invest on Mages you will invest on Raise Skeletons, because all of us know from experience and raw numbers that Mages are only a support role. So then you've spend 60 skill points. (You can though if you choose to max mages, instead of mastering RS you can master FG, and do some sort of Lord of Magi build.)

    If you have some time skim over my previous post with the correct impression that it does about 1k - 1.5k base because you've just convinced yourself (and me if I thought it did only 800 damage at insane slvls and maybe 600 realistically) with the wrong data.



     
  16. bogie

    bogie IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Well... the calculator that I was using says that at lvl 47 my fire golem will have...
    1350 base avg fire dmg.
    Added with a -65% lower resist and a -85% conviction from infinity and you get -150% resists. That turns that 1350 into 3200+ fire damage. My base isnt 3k, my overall damage is, sry if i didnt make it clear.:rolleyes:
     
  17. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    1,870
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    105
    I'm a big fan of Sparky, but I am thoroughly, absolutely, and entirely convinced that his only use is as a monster magnet. Sometimes if you're running a Clay Golem, monsters will ignore Gumby and run towards you, instead. Thanks to the Holy Fire aura, monsters NEVER ignore Sparky. As a result, I feel like he makes a much better tank against large crowds.

    His damage will always leave a little something to be desired. Even the best theoretically possible Fire Golem (+6 wand, +6 head, +3 circlet, +3 ammy, +2 armor, +1 belt, +2 rings, +13 charms, +2 shrine, +1 BO = slvl 59 Sparky) will only deal about 1750 damage per hit, and he'll only deal it to a single target at a time, and thanks to his slow attack rate he won't even average an attack every second. And as for the Fire Golem death explosion that has been reported in this thread... I tested it out in game last night. I spammed a slvl 50 Fire Golem (so he was constantly dying and exploding), and then I spammed a slvl 1 Fire Golem, and I didn't notice any damage difference between the two. I'm convinced that the death explosion is fixed, and only a couple hundred points of damage at that. That would make a maxed Fire Golem the most inefficient spell in the game, as the only spell that requires more mana than it deals damage.

    The German is wrong on this. Chippydip's has the correct numbers.

    For a pure summoner, I agree- Gumby is the golem of choice, unless you want to burn some extremely expensive runes to make yourself an Aura-Golem out of Iggy.

    Outside of summoners, though, Fire has a lot of uses. He's my golem of choice on Bonemancers because of his monster-magnet properties. Ditto that with Poisonmancers. I also find myself using him a lot on meleemancers, just to keep the heat off my Necro (pardon the pun); however, my favorite meleemancer golem is good old Drippy, the Blood Golem. I know a lot of people are laughing at me right about now, but hear me out- first off, the fact that I lose life when he gets hit isn't a big deal. I mean, I lose less life than I would have if *I* had gotten hit, right? So he's still helping me out in that regard. The real benefit, however, is the ridiculous leech- Blood Golem leeches 138% when maxed, and that is not reduced by difficulty penalties (50% leech in Nightmare, 33% leech in Hell). It's also not reduced by individual monster leech penalties, and will even work off of unleechables, which is really handy when it comes to recharging by red orb while fighting packs of skeletons.

    Long story short, Gumby, Sparky, Rusty, and even Drippy all have uses, depending on what sort of Necro you're building.

    I'm afraid it's not quite as simple as all of that. Resistances are capped at -100%, so if you face an unresistant monster, you'll only deal 2700 fire damage. If you face a monster with 99% resists, you'll deal the equivalent of 201,100 fire damage, but that's only 2011 actual damage. However, since physical resists are so uncommon, a 3,000 point physical attack will almost always deal noticably more damage than a 1350 damage fire attack with -150% enemy resists. Also, since a Necromancer has Amplify Damage at its disposal, the physical damage can really blow the elemental damage out of the water. A slvl1 Iron Golem made out of a good cruel Thunder Maul and accompanied by a Might Merc could probably outdamage a slvl59 Fire Golem, and he wouldn't even need any theoretical runes to do it.



     
  18. bogie

    bogie IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Ive never understood how the Iggy's damage is calculated... is it just the weapon damage? If so, then his damage is pretty low. Making him out of IK Maul would only deal 200 or so odd damage x 2 for amp. 400-500 dmg on an iron golem isnt too much... Ill take the 2700 dmg fire golem over that anyday. How do you get the IG's dmg up that high?

    Edit: In normal non-boss situations, I think sparky is a very good skill, even as a damage dealer. 2700 elemental dmg is nothing to sneeze at, and it can help greatly with physical immunes, add to that their's just too many points to spend on a summoner (CE only needs a few points, mines left at 1 and ive never had a problem).

    SSOG- What would you put points into instead? Given a skill stup of.....
    20 RS
    20 SM
    20 RSM
    1 Gumby
    1 Golem Mastery
    1 Blood Golem
    1 Iron Golem
    1 Summon Resist
    1 Revive
    7 Curses (Middle and right branch, i just dont use any others (no offence to dim vision:rolleyes: )).
    1 Bone Armor
    1 Teeth
    1 CE
    Only 76 points right there, and I like to get my summoners to lvl 91, so thats 25 points left, any suggestions?

    Edit 2: Rebuilding my summoner

    PS. MELEEMANCERS FTW!!!
     
  19. Darker Realm

    Darker Realm IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    212
    This makes me understand the nature of the Fire Golem, what it Is. It's actually a base golem that does physical damage (18-47) enchanted with a Holy Fire Aura, where the rest of the damage comes from. If this is the actual nature of the Golem, it impresses me that it is able to boost itself far more than any 1.11 runeword and as well as what the Paladin can do with maxed Holy Fire Aura even with maxed Resist Fire (passive synergy). So despite Holy Fire being native to the Paladin, the Necromancer is the one who has true control and mastery on the Holy Fire Aura. Also we must remind ourselves that it is the pulse not exactly the fire damage that drives the monsters crazy, not that you're unaware of it.

    I've never noticed or paid attention that Sparky drives monsters crazy but perhaps it is a good thing, to keep the heat off of a meleemancer or a bonemancer.

    To me, say we use your number 1750 fire damage is a godsend, if only my golem could do that much damage I'd be very happy. I'll explain why later in my next post. The Fire Golem's attack speed is pretty decent. Out of all minions in D2, how many out there hit faster than the Fire Golem, if any? With Fanaticism, Fire Golem will be faster and do more damage per second.

    Where does the +6 wand and head come from? It's +4.

    On the Fire Golem death boom maybe 1 point will suffice, but I see when I blow it up, I see it severely hurt small monsters in Hell, about a few times more than a punch (which for me is about 1k elemental). However, there is no limit to the number of times you can cast Golem, thus only limited by your mana, so I might advocate a build that invests some points in Energy/Mana. On top of the uncapped casts that can blow up faster than the golem can punch himself, you can cast Lower Resist.

    Good to see that someone's opinion has stronger feeling and thus may be more accurate. I completely agree that the Fire Golem is the most inefficient spell in the game, because our definition of inefficient is the Damage/Mana ratio. For any Sorceror, that would be something to seriously consider, because you'd be interested that how much mana and energy you focus on your spells actually gets turned into mana!? However, effectiveness is more important in the long run because we are not blowing Sparky up as of yet, you only cast it once, you can drink mana, and mana is no longer a problem at high character levels (90+). Reminds me of the old Diablo days when spells actually took up a large amount of your mana.

    Yes. This same line of thought is reflected many times. A pure summoner would be a traditioner summoner or Fishymancer. An offensive summoner might be a necromancer who MFs, a meleemancer, or someone who care about PURE damage and has no regard for defensive skills. Someone of the third category will have will have so many skill points left after maxing RS, RM, and SM, and has nothing better to put into. Because of the existence of the Hellfire Torch, it has ameliorated our Curse Tree and CE radius problems, so in the summoning branch, the logical choice offensive-wise would be Fire Golem (and then Clay for passive attack rating).

    Outside of tradional summoners, make Fire a broader category of use as I just outlined a few kinds of summoners, not to mention the Lord of Magi variant...



     
  20. Darker Realm

    Darker Realm IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    212
    It is time to reveal to you all who I am, and what background experience I come from, at this 15th post. I've been playing on Battle.net since 1.08 and 1.09 and my first experience in Diablo II was using the Necromancer in single player and I was hard-cored melee down to my weapon, as I still remember I used a magical Massive War Hammer of Maiming with a P Amethyst and a P Emerald in it. I haven't played Diablo for a while, and at the turn of last summer and the advent of the 1.11 patch, I've reawakened my interest in Diablo. I'm a Meleemancer with three seperate melee necromancers - 1 level 93, 2 level 92s. I'm making them stronger and I'm going to make several more necromancers. For my first necromancer I have on the Golem Tree: 5 Clay 1 Blood 1 Iron 20 Fire and 20 Mastery. I have been planning long term to use Beast on an Iron Golem (Eth Beast) so I maxed Fire for the passive damage to Iron but at that time, I never had the runes to do so so I stuck to Clay.

    Then one day I realized Hey! I don't need to use Clay Golem anymore, I have Fire Golem maxed and why not use it? I quickly realized the Fire Golem was my absolute choice except when fighting bosses, Ãœbers, and Baal's Minions, because as an offensive based character I needed an outlet for more damage and although Iron was supposed to form the damage Triumvirate between me, my merc, and my iron golem, I had to use Clay, and it just didn't cut it. I noticed that it did actual damage to monsters, and I quickly became satisfied as I found new ways to improve the Fire Golem's damage. I am modest when it comes to damage from Fire Golem and I am grateful when I see the damage gets ramped up even in smaller amounts, by 100xs, because it is the only way I could improve damage on my three (slightly different) necromancer builds, excluding the use of Iron Golem.

    I have discovered, the meleemancer is an effective build as of 1.11 and I have developed many variants of it. I was actually in my 90s on my first Nec before I read the Kbob's The Commandomancer, an old if not one of the original guides, and realised my build was very similar to his, that my build had each skill point well placed without having read any guide, and that my build could be developed upon. I plan to write a comprehensive guide on meleemancing, breathing life to the Kbob's build, advocating new melee builds and variants, and updating them as of 1.11. I'm the type of person that will make sure what I find has not been discovered yet before I speak or write, so I will spend the time with you guys and learn all I can in this forum before I begin on my endeavour.

    :smile: and Cheers
     

Share This Page