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Question on Damage on Grief, Reedemer...

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by master ring, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. master ring

    master ring IncGamers Member

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    Question on Damage on Grief, Reedemer...

    1) If some weapon has add 25-50 damage it means it adds 25 to minimum and 50 to maximum damage and it is dsiplayed on the weapon total damage. Right?


    But with Grief or with the The Redeemer (Unique mighty scepter) it says damage + xxxx...
    2)So this is not displayed on total damage pf that weapon. Right?

    3)Is this xxx damge added to minimum and to maximum damage or... Example: you have phase blade 31-35 dmg with 350 Grief. The damage on pb is 381-385 or 31-385?

    4)And at last question. If you use vengeace skill with Grief or that Redeemer would vengeance calculate that damage + xxx or would you do elemantal damage witgout adding those damage?

    Thanks
     
  2. Jerkazoid

    Jerkazoid IncGamers Member

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    from what i know +dmg is pretty much just like +min AND +max. with grief that weapon becomes 381-385, and venagnce would then work off that dmg.

    as a nice feature, +dmg can add to certain skills that dont benefit from +max/+min. smite is 1 example
     
  3. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    If a weapon adds +x to minimum and to maximum damage, it's obviously the same as +x to damage. However, +25-50 to damage is something different as +25 to minimum and +50 to maximum, strictly spoken. In the second case, the damage values will be destributed uniformly, i.e. each number is as probable as the other, but in the first case, the high and low numbers are less probable than the average ones. With a weapon of 10-50 base damage and 25-50 bonus damage you need a 10 on roll 1 (chance 1 in 41) and a 25 on roll 2 (chance 1 in 26), so a perfectly bad damage roll has a chance of 1 in 1066, while with a uniform distribution of (10+25) - (50+50) = 35-100, you have a chance of 1 in 66 for a perfectly bad roll. The average damage would be the same.

    However, sometimes a bonus to mindng and one to maxdmg becomes a + x-y one, sometimes it doesn't. IIRC it's like this: if you socket something with a +mindmg and a +maxdmg jewel, the bonus will become a + x-y one, but that won't happen to a rare jewel with both a +mindmg and a +maxdmg affix.

    In short: I don't know when +mindmg and +maxdmg will convert into + x-y damage, but that might as well be a Lying Character Screen problem, i.e. the bonuses might be applied to minimum and miximum damage anyway.

    Thrugg/RTB ?
     
  4. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    Adds +dmg is the same as +min/max together, but has a few quirks:
    1. The added dmg is not taken into account at the LCS.
    2. It adds to shield dmg.
    3. It's not used to calculate the elemental dmg from Vengeance.

    Krischan: +25-50 dmg and +25 minimum with +50 maximum dmg are exactly the same. Just a different way of displaying dmg additions.
     
  5. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    That's what I thought. Sometimes the LCS (in its broader sense) lies, sometimes it tells the truth and sometimes it tells confusing things :scratch:
     
  6. master ring

    master ring IncGamers Member

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    eh

    Can you give straight answers on my 4 questions in this thread please. I am more confused now than was before...

    Look
    Bartuc's says - ADDS 25-50 - That damage is displayed on weapon's total damage...

    Grief says - Damage +340-400 - Not displayed on weapon's total damage...

    Reedemer - Damage +60-120 - Not displayed on weapon's total damage...


    Which one (theoreticaly because Bartuc's are not paladin weapon) works with Vengeance and which one with Smite? Please need straight answers. Thanks
     
  7. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    Change the "adds +dmg" to "Damage +x" in my previous post, that should do it.
     
  8. master ring

    master ring IncGamers Member

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    eh

    So Grief's and The Reedemer's "damage+" do not works with Venageance. Right?
     
  9. Quietus

    Quietus IncGamers Member

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    Sounds to me like that's the case - Bartuc's would add to the weapon damage and increase vengeance but not smite, while Grief and Redeemer simply add the damage, and would increase smite but not vengeance.
     
  10. Killer_sss

    Killer_sss IncGamers Member

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    ok im confused as hell after reading this can some one help me out here.
    first so the dmg on grief is aplied to weapon dmg, shield dmg(if smiter), and boot dmg(if kicker) does it get enhanced by the skills or not? my reason for asking is i plan to use a grief phase on my wolf barb and his skills plus the druids increase dmg but im wondering is the dmg on grief increased also? or just the base dmg of phase blade?

    i think the thing thats messing me up is the damn vengence skill however id apreciate any help you can give me thanx.
     
  11. Generator Of Chaos

    Generator Of Chaos IncGamers Member

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    Simple anc clear, as far as i understand

    - If the dmg is shown on the weapon it adds the dmg to ANY kind of phisical attack (smite, kicks, zeal..blabla).

    - If the dmg IS shown on weapon, then it's like a normal "+XX% enhanced Damage"

    I'm not sure, but i believe both work with vengeance.
     
  12. Killer_sss

    Killer_sss IncGamers Member

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    but the dmg isn't shown on the weapon all it lists is the reg dmg with a
    +XXX dmg mod in the middle the dmg is not shown anywhere else.
     
  13. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Start believing otherwise.
     
  14. Generator Of Chaos

    Generator Of Chaos IncGamers Member

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    I meant "isn't" shown on the first case..

    this is how the post was meant:

    Aparently, according to Helvete, I'd say only the second case works with vengeance, my bet is that the "extra dmg" on the first case is added AFTER vengeance.
     
  15. Killer_sss

    Killer_sss IncGamers Member

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    so its still enhanced correct? so my 200str plus my 500ed from skills will still enhance the dmg correct?
     
  16. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Yes. But the LCS will lie to you, and tell you otherwise.
     
  17. Killer_sss

    Killer_sss IncGamers Member

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    thanx for your help guys it is greatly apreciated.
     
  18. Singollo

    Singollo IncGamers Member

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    from what i know about "damage +X" is, its added after all other damage factors this is going also for the pvp penalty. witch is why is so wicked in pvp because 400+ dmg in pvp is a lot for melee when thats the least your going to do. so for the cost of Lo rune and ew oter cheap items, it out dose botd in more then just dmg.
     
  19. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    Singollo: Not true, AFAIK it's added like normal +min/max on equipment, just with a few quirks such as adding to shield dmg and not adding to Vengeance elemental dmg. Bypassing the PvP penalty is not on this list.
     
  20. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    My fana-zealot wouldn't kill a thing in hell mode with his Grief weapon then. There is an LCS problem with that weapon (or with respect to applying some/all absolute damage bonuses) which might be the reason for your opinion.

    Absolute bonuses to damage are applied after on-weapon %ed, but before off-weapon %ed, stats, skills, auras and, if applicable, any %ed to demons or undead.
     

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