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Question for Sass (or anyone)

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by zabu, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. zabu

    zabu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Question for Sass (or anyone)

    Hi Sass (anyone)

    Sorry Im in a rush, so here goes:

    I want to make a kick/trap sin for pvm this new ladder.

    So what is best skill + gear layout for this cahracter? Will she do fine in PvM? I heard from people, including you, that kick/trapsins are decent options in PvM? Hope im not wrong.

    So yeah....I need all information I can get regarding them, and also, this is start of ladder, so I hope she can do well without gg stuff...

    THanks! Anyone is welcomed to help answer, its just that I know Sass is a sin expert :)

    peace!
     
  2. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    best is -light res setup with 99 light dmg sc's but gl getting it o_O
     
  3. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    -Light res will not work with traps. The elemental charms won't be an effective option. Zrk did show an instance with maximum amount of + lightning SCs, which did kill quickly. This isn't feasible for gear, and nigh impossible untwinked (like a fresh Ladder start).




    Kick / trap are very effective. With decent gear, they can take on quite a bit, and with the more top gear options (drac's especially), they can clear bosses more easily.



    Even still, Drac's aren't a necessity to use them well. ;)


    For low level gear and good + skills to look for, the Lore runeword (Ort + Sol) gives + 2 to skills and even mana to help. The Death's Set Glove / Belt combo is great for kicking due to the speed and freeze protection; res is a great boost at 15% all res.

    Ideally, and especially with the respec availability, you can focus on traps during Normal, and then move to kicks as you get melee gear along the way and need to worry about Lightning Immunes.



    More low to mid level runewords are Ancient's Pledge (Ral + Ort + Tal in Shields) for a big mana boost, Rhyme (Shael + Eth in Shields) for mana, res, block, MF, Strength (Amn + Tir in 2 soc weapons (claws for + skill or a fast scimitar)) gives CB, + STR, and life leech. Sigon's Boots are a good damage, low level boot. Ideally, the boots boost kicks the most, so strong boots (Greaves, War Boots, Mirror Boots or Myrmidon Greaves (!)) will be something to eventually upgrade.




    Skill-wise, Lightning focus should start with LS (of course), and DS after that (or both at once). DS will be a big factor in killing power with the wide corpse explosion. You can see here for tips on DS placement.

    A Shadow (master or warrior, but many chose warrior so she won't over write your traps) will be an excellent diversion and tank for you. MB and CoS are great for crowd control and keep things manageable (and lowers defense!).


    All in all, she's a rounded char who has no difficulty remaining effective on low end gear.

    Good luck with her on Ladder. :)
     
  4. zabu

    zabu Diabloii.Net Member

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  5. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    Personally, I'd use Ilkori's Kick / Trap Guide. It goes into more depth than the jsp one.

    EDIT: and Ilkori's guide lists skills for at least 3 variations (mostly kicks, mostly traps and a good balance), so whatever you feel more comfortable with will work either way.
     
  6. zabu

    zabu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    THank you, but to be honest...I finally thought to myself, this sin cannot really be decent without high-end gear....and I want to build her for this start of ladder....meaning no high-end gear...I think she is very nice only if you have gg stuff

    Therefore I think I won't build here even though I love this sin ><
     
  7. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    You'd be surprised. The same Blood Crescent I used in a Trist run was the one I killed Hell Baal with on my K/T. Other than eventually getting a CoH and upped Gores, I had no other elites.



    The trap part is mostly what makes her a low-gear char. Trappers can run things essentially naked and do well. With kicks, you just need some leech of some kind.
     
  8. mephiztophelez

    mephiztophelez Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    err, and some crushing blow.

    the power of the k/t'sin is that d-talon is one of the fastest single-target killing skills in the game when you load up on the crushing blow.

    this gives you a corpse which, in turn, gets the death sentry howitzer cranking.



     
  9. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    not really - at least in a practical situation, hell cs seal boss-dia run. Even the assassin itself has a better build for that situation - regular old traps + fire blast. That is a sort of elephant in the room of the kickers - they dont want to admit it, but a fire blast does exactly all kicks do, more safely, with less skill and item sacrifices to lightning traps



     
  10. stephan

    stephan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    FB is not going to make corpses faster than DT, and it certainly won't kill bosses faster. It is also not really more skill intensive. You'd only have to spend around 15 to 18 points on it, while you normally spend 19 extra on FB in a pure trap build.
     
  11. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    dunno about bosses, but level 45 fire blast - 6300 damage before facets, before infi, with them(btw, none of this sacrifices ANY trap damage, unlike kick damage modifiers), ~assuming 12k blast,
    dps of fire blast:12k*25/9=69000

    dps of kick cb(assuming12k monster at half life, 50% cb) 750*25/4=4687

    As you can see, the big cb thing that people keep raving about, is tiny, compared to raw damage of fire blast. Unfortunately raw damage of kicks is also tiny(unless you use the light charm setup or something similar to what i recommended) so it wont help much.
     
  12. stephan

    stephan Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    Ok, either you didn't read the OP, or you don't understand it. Let's move on.



     
  13. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    Zrk, not sure where the numbers are from, but you do many more DTalons per second than you do a FB. At max speeds, you do 3 kicks during one FB cast.


    You also only showed CB (which is constantly changing, so no one equation accounts for all applications), but neglected DTalon's damage. At a reasonable level (3-4 ish kicks) and Myrmidons (not too picky on which in this instance), that's ~1K per kick (3K for each FB cast). That's along CB.



    Trappers have distance, which creates the illusion of safety. With minions taking the damage, they're safe. They can't get close and tank a frenzytaur. Kickers can.

    Now, the X strong X fast Fire Enchanted Fanat Aura ones...that's another story ><
     
  14. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    the 25/9 is blast and 25/4 is speed multiplier of kick(it should be 25/3.8 in reality, average of 4 three frame and 1 7 frame delays, but alas)


    if you want to increase that kick further - you gotta sacrficice trap dmg. but to increase blast dmg - you dont have to. lvl 45 blast does 6.3k dmg before facets,and infi


    to get that u sacrifice trap dmg.. you cant get ur cake and eat it with kick/trappers, but with blast/trappers you can

    funny you mention that - kickers have far mor trouble with stone skin ones, as cant decrease phys res without sacrificing light dmg



     
  15. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    You forget that kicks are based mostly on boots. You don't sacrifice any trap damage at all. The points you suggest for FB are what go toward DTalon.


    You also forget that facets and infinity cannot be applied here.



    Stone Skin monsters have to be PI to cripple a kicker. Otherwise, they die the same.
     
  16. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    its the cb and static that people rave about.. means sacrificing trap claw, assa circ


    They apply to fire blast as shock web..that is 6 facets in decent gear - helm and claws



    less damage to high res monsters.. cb and physical part



     
  17. hubb

    hubb Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    Seeing as you're missing the hints, I'll just say it. This is for untwinked play, he won't be able to get facets, infinity or a level 45 fire blast.
     
  18. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    Well it was a tangent - a subthread begun by mephistophelez' provoking claim which got into a heated debate
    and another thing if i may,
    This is another fallacy. CB + insane speed alone doesnt do much. For practical proof, see WW barbs in classic d2. They attack at 1 frame without nextdelay, by far the fastest skill in the current game. And guess what? Hdins still kill faster, both single targets and groups.



     
  19. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    That's the point behind being a Kick / Trap.

    The kicks add a new style to the build that never existed before--they are designed to get close. You sacrifice trap gear, but gain melee gear. The Kicks more than make up for FB and its facets. Infinity changes nothing since both use it.



    I didn't do much barb play in Classic, but I doubt they do 15-18K Magic damage.
     
  20. BKC

    BKC Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Question for Sass (or anyone)

    indeed they don't not even half of that damage :)


     

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