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question about Mind Blast and other assy skills

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by HBeachBabe, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. HBeachBabe

    HBeachBabe IncGamers Member

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    question about Mind Blast and other assy skills

    My duel-weilding MA assy loves to spam this skill before entering the fray, but as I have now discovered ATMA and the joys of MFing I began to wonder about the effect of one monster killing another. Would I be correct in assuming that if one converted monster kills another, my MF doesn't apply? what about experience? do I get XP for monsters killed by converts?

    same questions for Phoenix Strike. Does my MF apply to monsters killed by Chaos Ice bolts or the fire damage from a meteor? I also remember reading somewhere that poison can screw up MFing. now that I can use Venom and BoS am I hurting my MF chances in exchange for more killing power?
     
  2. cloudstride

    cloudstride Banned

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    Not sure if you get your MF transferred to converted monsters or get exp from them, but why wouldn't you get your MF from your phoenix strike? It's your attack that's killing the monsters after all...
     
  3. factotum

    factotum IncGamers Member

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    When you Mind Blast a monster it becomes one of your minions for the duration of the effect, which means you (a) get experience for any kills it makes and (b) it uses your MF when calculating drops. (It didn't work this way in Classic 1.0, but I think somebody pointed out to Blizzard that minions not using your MF made things a little unfair for Necromancers!).

    However, I have to agree with cloudstride on his second point--why on earth would you NOT get credit for killing a monster using Phoenix Strike? You might as well ask if a Sorceress gets credit for killing monsters with Chain Lightning or Frozen Orb.
     
  4. HBeachBabe

    HBeachBabe IncGamers Member

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    I suppose my question is more about what counts as a direct "kill." Perhaps I'm confused because of the issues with poison. I have played the game for years but never for anything other than casual fun. I've never been one to always go for the best mathematical build nor did I ever concern myself with MFing since in single player it's fairly pointles without a muling program. Thus, i never worried about who got credit for a kill or other formula in the game. Basically, if I was killing things enough to complete the quests and move on in the game, I was doing fine. Thus my ignorance about how certain damage calculations are done.

    In regards to PS, I was thinking more along the line of damage over time effects such as if a monster steps into the flame of an already fallen meteor. Also along these lines, do +damage charms only add damage to the monster initially struck or to all monsters affected by the skill (i.e. every creature hit by a chaos ice bolt or shot of lightning)

    Thanks for putting up with my ignorant questions :)
     
  5. Minor_Deity

    Minor_Deity IncGamers Member

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    Bah! This is the place to ask questions. :cool: Fear not but new knowledge from the fine folk here. So ask away.

    Remember the typed word has no inflections so it can seem a little colder than intended. My friends and I call each other moron and such all the time. But it is said in a way to make all laugh. Typed out "Minor you moron." that sounds a bit harsh. Whether true or not.:teeth:

    Have fun out there all.:drink:
     
  6. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    And another question: Do you get XP if the converted monster gets killed by a normal one?



    Then my ENTIRE D2 career is pointless :( since I base ALL of my characters´ equipment on items they find (mostly on NM) during their adventures, while hoarding and wearing as much MF equipment they possibly can and still be able to survive. I don´t transfer items between characters and I don´t "run" areas/bosses. Knowing the ins and outs of how drops are calculated has been very very helpful. How can MFing be pointless in this situation?
     
  7. Minor_Deity

    Minor_Deity IncGamers Member

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    I think were talking about hardcore MFing here. i.e. Collecting, Grail, etc.

    Rather pointless if you have no (or are unaware of) a way to mule off.
    Just wearing as much MF as possible for items to use, like in the tourney's is quite pointy... errrr pointfull... pointed. Oh well not pointless anyway.

    That hurt. Time for a :drink:
     
  8. HBeachBabe

    HBeachBabe IncGamers Member

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    well, it's pointless for a dual claw assassin to find The Patriarch early on, is it not?

    I just meant that if the goal is to get through the game's quests without running areas repeatedly (aside from leveling up) then MFing without muling isn't that practical. The odds of any one character finding a usable unique/set/rare are small particularly for assassins since claws are only 2/3 as likely as other items. I'd rather wear better armor/weapons and have a faster kill speed than leser stuff with MF just to halve the the 1 in a million chance of getter Bartuc's Greater Claws or Natalya's Anything.
     
  9. factotum

    factotum IncGamers Member

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    No, you don't. Like I said, the monster is one of your minions while it's under Mind Blast control, and you don't get experience for one of your own creatures getting killed! (It'd be great for Necromancers if you did, wouldn't it? You could level up just by resummoning golems and sending them up against Diablo or something like that :)).
     
  10. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, but you have sort of "defeated" the enemy, since you take an enemy, convert it and get it killed. I think you should get XP for that. A golem is not an enemy to start with, I think that is very different.

    XP-wise, it is a bad thing then for a necromancer to confuse the minions of an LE boss, to get them to attack the boss and get killed by the sparks? Especially in 1.10 now that minions are worth so much XP.
     
  11. factotum

    factotum IncGamers Member

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    Yes, that would be a bad move; but it's not like there aren't 5 million other boss packs whose boss ISN'T LE, is it? I think the least of your problems in Diablo 2 is gaining experience, especially once you hit Hell. (There's also the issue that surviving is better than dying because you lose experience for dying, even Softcore).
     
  12. Huorn

    Huorn IncGamers Member

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    I don't have a clue about assassins. I'm only here to offer my moral support, and because you asked us to come here in your intro thread. :lol:
     
  13. sunbearie

    sunbearie IncGamers Member

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    I also came just cos I was ordered/coerced to do so in the intro thread.

    Anyway, with regard to poison I believe, its the magic find you're wearing at the point of the monster's death that matters! So while possible to hit once and switch to better gear, it's tedious. Venom only has a poison duration of 1/4 sec so thats a moot pt anyway.

    MB, you get no exp if the monster under your control is killed. They don;t drop items as well. So just use them as crowd control. Its unlikely anyway since with exceptions, monsters don't attack that fast so they wouldn't die.

    MF, I always though there was some benefit to wear some mf while playing, esp untwinked. You never know when the next rare would drop.
     
  14. jiansonz

    jiansonz IncGamers Member

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    I see your point, but I still don´t agree. Finding a particular set/unique can significantly change the rest of the career for a character. I have several examples of this:

    * My first assassin (Claw/Shield MA in 1.09) found Tiamat´s Rebuke in late NM. She abandoned her plans of getting Phoenix Strike to use against PIs and could focus on other skills instead. Too bad some points got wasted that way. She had also found Skystrike on Normal Bloody Foothills, a weapon she kept on her weapon switch until the end.

    * My 1.09 mojomancer (curses-only necro) found Kuko Shakaku for his mercenary in NM Kurast Sewers. An amazing upgrade from a 'Zephyr' Composite Bow. Both he and the merc were wearing lots of MF at the time. This weapon had a very large impact on their further success. They made it all the way to Hell Ancients, where Korlic managed to kill him.

    * Lucky, 1.10 random amazon (all her stat points and skill points are randomly placed) has also found Kuko Shakaku, along with Iceblink and Hone Sundan. The latter two items are worn by her Might merc to great effect (randomly chosen merc type, by the way). She still makes decent progress in act 2 Hell and these three items have been very important for her success.

    * My 1.09 Swordmistress (amazon with two-handed sword, heavy on passive skills but no Decoy or Valkyrie) found The Rising Sun in Hell, allowing her to fight Hell Diablo up close without much danger. Her weapon was also a great find: Cloudcrack, dropped by NM Mephisto. Sigon´s gloves, helm and boots also helped her a lot.

    I have many more examples, but I think that is enough to prove my point. All of these characters have been wearing as much MF they have been able to, without sacrificing too much survivability. On the other hand, I´ve had two HC characters that died because of bad resists while wearing MF gear. You win some, you lose some...

    And I don´t repeat areas to "level up" either, so the resources are limited. That´s how I want the game to be. I only get one chance at each area, only one Pindle "run" (on each difficulty), only kill Mephisto once on each difficulty. Killing speed is not a concern for me. Survivability is, though. Far into the game (late Hell), MF loses more and more importance, since so little of the game remains (few chances left to find stuff) and the danger level rises, especially in 1.10.

    Granted, it IS annoying not to mule sometimes. My second necromancer found TWO Titan´s Revenges and THREE Hyperion Javelins that were better than the one my javazon ended her career with. The only class-specific set/unique items I have ever been able to use are Immortal King´s Will and Trang-Oul´s Wing.

    The thing is, all my characters have found useful items. Without so much MF, they would have found nowhere near that amount. And it´s not just about set/unique items. Wearing much MF also gets them more magical and rare items which leads to a greater chance of finding something worth wearing AND have no doubt made them richer. More money means more gambling and other benefits (like allowing my mojomancer to resurrect the merc 19 times against NM Diablo!). Remember, my resources are limited.

    The feeling/excitment I get when I see those green or gold letters for an item type I know (or suspect) will significantly boost my character´s further progress, is just great. Nothing in D2 beats that for me.


    Forgive my rantings. What I have described is how I play D2 and why I love the game. And it´s probably why I get a bit antsy when someone puts down MF-ing while questing, the foundation of my main tactics.
     
  15. whomhead

    whomhead IncGamers Member

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    [quote jiansonz] end hijack [/quote]

    moral of the story: do what makes you happy. as it seems most of your questions have been answered HBB, i'll leave it at that. :D
     
  16. Fafner

    Fafner IncGamers Member

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    Lucky

    I didn't find ATMA until about 1 year and half ago and before that I had a couple ridiculous finds, Barbarian with Buriza (fun but slow, very slow) , Paladin with occulus (sheesh a Zealot nonetheless). Suddenly though after I got ATMA I started to not need it. Sorceress finds SoJ off Hephisto, Assassin finds Bartucs off Mephisto, Necro finds SoJ off some random monster I can't remember...

    edit-duh, Welcome to the forum, and I know a thing or two about Assassin kicker/hybrids if you ever want to try one.
     
  17. HBeachBabe

    HBeachBabe IncGamers Member

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    thanks for the help everyone.

    one more stupid MF question. Shadow Master uses my MF or does her random spawned equipment take presidence?
     
  18. burke615

    burke615 IncGamers Member

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    Hirelings get your MF added to their MF, so I assume Shadow Masters would be the same. I should probably let someone who is actually sure of the answer speak, though. :D

    Cheers!
    Burke
     

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