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Question about MFing Sorc

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by ZackulDiablo, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. ZackulDiablo

    ZackulDiablo IncGamers Member

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    Question about MFing Sorc

    Ok, this probably mentioned somewhere but I'm too lazy to look through pages to find an answer, so here it is. What is the difference between MFing in a 1 player game and a full 8 player game? Do the monsters lvl stay the same or do they increase as more players join in? Lastly, is 300 MF enough? Or should i get more in exchange of losing firepowers?
     
  2. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    The more players in the game, the higher the chance a monster will drop an item when it is killed. And the more players in the game, the higher the chance that an item will roll as a unique/set/rare/magic item. 300% MF is fine, as long as it doesn't slow you down. If adding more MF doesn't slow you down, feel free to add more MF.
     
  3. Delreich

    Delreich IncGamers Member

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    This bit is wrong. Number of players in no way affects the quality of the drops, only the number of drops.

    Other than that: what he said.



     
  4. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    I have read this in the past, but I don't get it. I'll post some ATMA (version 5.04) readouts and maybe you can enlighten me. For the unique Jo Staff, Razorswitch, with 0% MF, the chances of it dropping from a Hell Bovine:

    One player = 1 : 2406568

    Two players = 1 : 1474023

    Three players = 1 : 1188243

    Four players = 1 : 1052873
    .
    .
    .
    Eight players = 1 : 917504

    My ATMA is the second latest version. I've heard that the number of players giving unpartied drop probabilities has been fixed in the latest ATMA version. IIRC, for my version of ATMA, I have to regard the players setting in the Drop Calculator as unpartied when running superunique bosses like Meph. I'm not sure if the same applies for regular monsters, like Hell Bovines.
     
  5. Delreich

    Delreich IncGamers Member

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    Those are probability per kill, so while increasing the chance of getting a drop
    will increase the overall chance of getting a certain item, the chance per drop
    is still the same.

    If you run cows on /p1 until 100 items have dropped, you will have the same
    probability of getting a Razorswitch as if you run on /p7 til you get 100 items.
    You will have to kill more cows on /p1 to get those 100 itmes though.

    Hope that's clear enough... I suck at explaining things.

    It seems 5.04 uses partied players, so /p1 and /p2 would give you the 'One
    player' probability you listed, /p3 and /p4 is 'Two players' and so on. This goes
    for all monsters. 5.05 lets you select party size as well.



     
  6. Skinhead On The MBTA

    Skinhead On The MBTA IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, but if there's a higher chance of any item dropping (as there is if there are more players in the game), then surely there is a higher chance of the unique version dropping, is there not? That'll be why ATMA gives better odds of Razorswitch dropping for more players in the game.

    Edit: pwned by Dalreich
     
  7. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Sorry, I'm still not following this.

    ATMA's probability listed above is the probability of a Razorswitch dropping when you kill a Hell Bovine at /p1 and /p8. From the above, the probability of a Razorswitch dropping at /p8 is much higher than at /p1.

    But the probability per kill, as listed by ATMA, is higher at /p8 compared to /p1. On the other hand, you say that the chance per drop is the same. So probability per kill is not the same as chance per drop? If not, then what is chance per drop?

    But the probability on /p8 is higher than on /p1, as given by ATMA. Which is why I don't get it.

    That is how I read it from looking at ATMA's results. Firstly, more items will drop (i.e. the 'no drop' chance is lowered when more players are in the game). Secondly, based on ATMA's listed probabilities, there is a higher chance of a Razorswitch dropping on /p8 compared to /p1.


    This is all getting rather confusing. I understand the core principle of 'more players in the game does not increase the chance of a roll being of higher quality', but ATMA appears to contradict that by giving better probabilities at higher player settings.
     
  8. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    I think I get it.

    Playing on P8 gives you more drops per kill. The odds per drop stay the same. It looks like you are getting ~2.3 times as many drops per kill on P7&8. I believe this is a logorithmic increase.

    @OP Playing on P8 (or 8 player games for those of us on B.net). Does more than just increase the rate of drops though. Monsters also get higher HP's and give more exp. I don'r believe anything else changes. They still have the same attack and defense as well as resists and skills, etc.

    I believe the HP's increase linearly, but I can't remember if its an exact relaionship, i.e. 2x player games give the monsters 2x HP (try as I might I can't find the thread in the Stat forum where this was just discussed). I know the exp increase was mentioned in the same thread.
     
  9. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    The problem is that those odds that I quoted above are for a specific item i.e. Razorswitch at /p1 and /p8. Since the numbers are different for each players setting, the odds per drop are not the same. Your figure of ~2.3 times actually indicates the relative increase in probability of Razorswitch dropping. At least, that is how I'm reading it, and I'm not an expert in this field.

    Each additional player in the game increases the hitpoints of monsters by 0.5 and XP gained by 0.5. In an eight player game, the hitpoint and XP increase is 4.5x each. Also, monsters do more damage when more players are in the game, although the exact % increase in damage has not been conclusively verified.
     
  10. MageChick

    MageChick IncGamers Member

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    But Atma is giving you odds per kill, not odds per drop. The more players in game, the more drops per kill.

    example 1. I'm soloing area X. Each monser in area X will drop 1 item each time killed (on average). The item is chosen randomly from a group of say 100 items. My odds of getting the item I want are 1/100 for each drop. One drop = one kill, so my odds of getting the item I want are also 1/100 for each kill.

    example 2. In the same area with 8 players in the game each monster will drop 2 items (on average again). The item is still chosen randomly from the same group of 100 items. My odds of getting the item I want are still 1/100 for each drop, but I get 2x drops for every kill, so my odds of getting my item are 1/50 for each kill.

    Does this do it for you?

    Yes I know the odds of dropping are relative, but I don't know that they are in a linear relationship.
     
  11. Goryani

    Goryani IncGamers Member

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    Correct. The increased probability is entirely due to the reduced no drop chance. The increased chance of a Razorswitch dropping in /p8 is exactly the same as the decreased no drop chance caused by /p8.

    Mobs can have multiple "drops." The Act bosses have 7 drops per kill. Council mobs have 3 drops per kill. Super Uniques (non-boss) have 2 item drops and 2 potion drops per kill. A plain mob has 1 drop per kill. Unique and Champion mobs have 1 item drop and 2 potion drops per kill.

    The chance per drop is simply the chance of Item X dropping from a single drop. The chance per kill is a statistical combination of the chance per drop and the number of drops. For mobs with only 1 drop, the chance per kill and the chance per drop should be the same. For mobs with more than 1 drop, the chance per kill will always be higher than the chance per drop.

    It may help to look at the results for mobs which have a 100% drop rate: Uniques, Super Uniques, and Champions. For mobs with 100% drop rate, there is no difference in the drop rate between /p1 and /p8. More players will not increase your chance at any item other than lowering the no drop chance.
     

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