Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Question about duped high runes on the forums here

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by Dawnmaster, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Question about duped high runes on the forums here

    Well, I'll just get to the point, I've traded for a few Hrs now and then on these forums. Since a few weeks I've obtained a lot of them (a lot imo) and I've had a Vex and a Cham go 'poof' on me (I don't understand why anyone would want to dupe a Cham but okay) And a friend lost a Jah the same way (same level service payer)

    My question is the next, if people trade on these forums and the rune poofs afterwards, can you 'complain' about it? Should the other person compensate you, or is it a risk you take? I know the nice folks here do everything they can to keep the dupes out, but the Hrs remain a danger.

    I'm asking this now because it just hit me. The poofing happened about 2 weeks ago and since the person responsible is banned atm, I don't expect any compensation at all.

    However, with all the Hrs coming in lately (level services) I wonder if I have the Right to ask for compensation whenever their payment goes poof on me?
     
  2. Jimi-

    Jimi- IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    well imo, you can complain but i doubt you will get a compensation, but its only bad for the trader who gave you the rune cause he will loose pretty much all respect here
     
  3. Alywin

    Alywin IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    57
    High runes are well known highly likely to be dupes, especially in non-ladder realms. Don't you expect you manage to get from monsters' corpses and/or forge run to get more than 4 or 5 JAH/BER/ZOD without trading within a reasonable period of time, do you? And don't you believe that somebody, frequent posters in these forums or not, get their tens or hundreds of high runes just by killing monsters and crazy forge runs on their own, without any trading or even other unmentionable means, do you?

    I am afraid why the high runes are still admitted in these forums because, despite the above, quite some of the existing runes (1 in 10 or 20 or 50?) were really found from monsters and cubed from forge runs so a total ban might not be appropriate, unlike those 3/20/20 and 1.08 GF or raven spirals which should be much much more scarce and are worth banning.

    And yes, when you get any high runes through trading on these forums or elsewhere, I suppose you assume the risk that they are dupes. I don't mean that guys here dupe them themselves necessarily, but they can't guarantee their being non-duped if they also got them from trading. You have two choices, face the reality and cross your fingers when you trade one, or you don't trade for high runes. And yes, I am not going to talk about how to "perm" them either.
     
  4. ChaosLord

    ChaosLord IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    20
    If one trades for a high rune (or any rune 24 and above) one should expect that the rune is likely to be a dupe. Runes Vex+ and above are more likely then not to be dupes.

    Think about it. How many runes 27 and up have you seen drop? Would you be willing to pay someone this legit rune drop (or multiple legit runes) for a levelling service that is rather time consuming, but nevertheless easy to do. People who pay high runes for levelling service chances are either of the following (not all are, but 99% easily)

    1) Ebayed them or bought them of the net from one of the numerous websites that are spammed day in day out.

    2) Dupers

    3) People who have played for a long time and trade their items for multiple high runes. (which are duped runes nevertheless)

    All in all, unless the person is EXTREMELY nice and accomodating, you are unlikely to get compensation. It's your word against his. No one can prove anything.

    If a high rune is traded for, assume it's duped. Especially with the state that bnet is in now.
     
  5. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    I kinda figured that out too, I was just curious if it would be a bad move if I told someone that the Hr he traded with me just went poof.

    About the perming, dunno if you read the other threads here on this page, but imo it's impossible to do. Think about it, shouldn't all those dupers perm their runes then? After all, isn't a rune that stays, worth more than one that dissappears?

    And last but not least, another question, related to this topic:
    If I find a Hr myself (I did found a Vex once myself on Hell Travi) can I ask for more in a trade since it's a 100% sure no-dupe?
    I know there is no way to guarantuee this to any member, and some members might abuse this and claim the rune poofed anyway to put me in a bad daylight.
    But still, the fact remains, are selffound Hrs worth more than traded ones?
     
  6. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Please correct me if wrong.

    - It would be difficult to punish a member of these forums for trading bad runes. You would have to show extensive proof linking the account name on Battle Net to the Forum handle on this board. Perhaps that is easier than I think, I am unsure.

    - Trading for high runes is a risk that everyone takes. Many times the people that are trading these runes may not neccessarily know themselves.

    The question you must ask yourself is. "Why would they be trading this rune?" Let's be honest, I am sure than all of us want the high end runewords, so how would we be getting to this goal by trading away these runes?
     
  7. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Well, you got some good points there m8

    It would be near impossible to punish a member for trading bad runes, but only a month or 2 ago you were expected to say where you got the Hrs from.

    Nowadays everyone seems to get it from TC. (there used to be a lot of players offering selffound hrs)

    So when a trader claims he found the rune himself and later on it goes poof, I think I have to Right to mention that on the forums, not? (it didn't happen yet, but should it happen...)

    And about the trading runes, well for items you can't get or find. Ladder only items, or if you can't spawn or kill DC, etc...
     
  8. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree with your argument. I believe accountability should go out. However, it has to be done in a smart way.

    Ruststorm is a method utilised by Blizzard to remove dupes. I think Ruststorm should be a continual thing, whether the timing of it has any higher significance, who knows.

    If a person claims to have found a rune and it dissapears after a trade, then measures should be taken.

    I believe a lot of the problem comes from the over zealous attitude towards not only runes but also to the entire gameplay. Many people feel that they have to have a BoTD (I have the runes to make some high end runewords but have never felt the need to make them) to either complete the game or to be 'l337'. In fact they don't.

    So much emphasis is placed on the high end gear, everyone wants to be known as 'g0su' so they will do anything to achieve it. I saw a poster today, Scruffyhawk, show off his Wind runeword in a reinforced mace. He knows he'll be most likely laughed at for using it, but that's where enjoyment and doing different things come about.

    When we all stop bursting to get the high runes they will not be duped as much.

    Either that or Blizzard changes the coding to allow better legitimate rune drops (for both Single Player and Battle Net) so every purchaser has a chance to legitimately utilise the goodies on offer before they legitimately pass away!
     
  9. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    Well, I once wrote an article for my clan (it's on our site) about Power to Rule (defeat everyone in duels) or Power to Aid (to just have fun and help out your fellow players). I consider myself to be a Power to Aid. I will never go Windforce or BreathoftheDying, neither will I play trapsins. There is no fun, no challenge anymore.

    As you may have seen in that same thread, I made a complete WindSin, according to most, that would be a waste of the Sur, but imo, she's a lot of fun. And that's where the enjoyment and doing different things comes out. I've never had the feeling to be 'gosu' or '1337', I'm just enjoying this game in my way.

    On a sidenote, Great power comes with a lot of trouble too. I have a quite powerfull Sorc, and she can win most duels (among my clanmates)
    The problem is, they want to duel her, they keep making chars to try to defeat her, all the chars want to test their damage on her etc.
    And really, I only made her to give rushes, to mf and to have fun.
     
  10. Taxed

    Taxed IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Maybe it's time to ban rune trading on the forums too?
    I have to say though, I traded for a JAH about 2 weeks ago and it still exists....
     
  11. DrunkCajun

    DrunkCajun Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    5,249
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dawnmaster, depending on who you traded with, they may be willing to work something out with you. I know when I was a frequent member of the East Trade Forum, we had a few disputes over poofed runes that merely resulted in flamefests and bannage. If you traded with someone who has been around for a while and trades here often, they may be willing to compensate you in some way, if they can afford to. I know I would be willing to talk, as would traders like Pcwnd and Nolomite (though he was just temp. banned). They may not be able or willing to refund you in full, but they may be willing to come to reasonable terms with you on it. I know for a while Nolo was trying to set up a system for "testing" high runes by having a third party hold them for a day and log into as many pubby games as possible to see if they poofed.
     
  12. ladydraxis

    ladydraxis IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Here's the best advice I can give to anyone regarding high runes:
    If you must trade for a high rune, or accept one as a payment, either:

    1) put it on a mule right away.

    OR

    2) put it into the runeword right away.

    Don't leave it on a character that is going to be joining public games, as this is how I have lost 2 Ists (had no idea they were dupes).
     
  13. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If I recall these methods do not work, as Ruststorm picks up all dupes, even when runeworded.
     
  14. TheGreatDivorce

    TheGreatDivorce IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Know what you are trading for/with before trading, you know 100% that High Runes and SoJs' are duped, you run the risk of trading with them you suffer the consequences of whatever happens afterwards. If you for some reason traded a person a few SoJs' for something and the day after, they aren't there anymore, it is entirely your fault.

    I have dealt with large sums of currencies on other forums, I have seen things poof within minutes of trading, within weeks of trading and I get pissed off that I didn't trade them off immediately after I had gotten them. You just have to accept your loses and move on.
     
  15. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Then everyone simply becomes a part of the problem rather than the solution.

    The ball has to stop somewhere. Who? The people who duped the item? The people who pass it along in trades as quick as possible? The person who ends up with the rune.

    Given that scenario the first two are at fault. The first is knowing what they are doing. The second are pretty sure and trying to make personal gain at the misfortune of others.

    Ultimately discussions like this only end in frustration as there is no real answer or solution. Before measures can be taken, attitudes must change first. Perhaps one of the easiest solutions is for Blizzard to re-define the drop ratios of runes so that there is a reasonable chance for every player to gain some of the higher runes.

    That's not saying they should be easily accessable, however the odds should not be so astronomical.

    I think you have to question not only the trader but also yourself before making any trade.

    - IF I had found this would I trade it away, considering the time it took me to gain it?

    - The chances are high that this is not legitimate, am I prepared to risk this? (Gain v Loss argument)
     
  16. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    As I said before, a few months ago, a lot of members offered selffound Hrs (if these poof, the trader loses a lot, if not all credability) I'd sure like to go back to those days. Sure the Hrs were expensive, but atleast you were sure they were 100% legit. Nowadays they all seem to come from TC.

    Also, although I believe any item can be duped, but I've never had any item (not even Sojs, and I've had a lot of those come and go in trades, some are in my possession for months and months now, I've never found one, but never got on go poof on me either) that poofed. Sofar only a Vex and a Cham, and a friend a Jah. This has lead to the believe (among some people I know) that only runes can be duped. And although I DON'T AGREE with them, it's getting hard to disagree since I've rarely ever saw anything poof, only a few runes.

    EDIT: I've only ever found 1 Hr, a Vex, if I find another one someday, I'd either offer it for a very high price, seeing it is a legit Hr, or I just use it in a runeword which I know I'll be using a lot.
     
  17. SeDnA

    SeDnA IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    But if you make enigma with lets say a self found Ber, but the jah is duped and poofs someday... what happens? Would the first slot be empty? or the last slot? could u put in another jah to save the rw?
     
  18. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    5,209
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    469
    From what I heard the entire item dissappears. I have no way to confirm this though. So you'd best only make items with 1 Hr in it. That way your loss won't be too big imo.
     
  19. ArchAngel Tiberrius

    ArchAngel Tiberrius Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    From what I've been told and heard you lose the entire item.
     
  20. Wmeredith

    Wmeredith IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    256
    You lose the entire item. I lost a Beast Caddy this way.

    I wasn't too upset about it, though. I've been playing this game for years and I have lots of runewords. I have some really "1337" ones, I guess. I don't have a last wish or anything but I've got a Faith, a CoH, an ICE, and a Fort. I kind of just accept (read: assume) that runes I trade for are duped.

    The only High runes I've ever found, in 4 years of playing this game, are 4 gul (hellforges, 1 in pits), Ohm (WSK), and a Jah (WSK). I've traded for lots of them though. I consider it a gamble I'm willing to take. I want the uber items. I like to play with them. I like to rush people and help my friends out with them. If/when they poof, though, I kind of just move and keep looking for more awesome gear, which is what I'm doing anyway.

    As far as me trading HR's to other people, if they're self-found I don't trade them, I use them. If I got them through a trade (I have no way to vouch for them) I tell the person I'm trading them to. Especially if it's someone from these forums.

    Basically I preach about the evils of duping and botting and all that, and I won't ever use any of those programs or hacks or whatever. But as long as the market is flooded, I'll trade for uber items and enjoy crazy builds using them. When/if they poof: "Easy come: easy go." It doesn't make me that mad, because I can enjoy playing without them too.

    I'm not being unsympathetic, that sucks when you lose an item. I'm just saying the way I look at it.
     

Share This Page