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Quest completed versus not completed drops...

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Zroc, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Quest completed versus not completed drops...

    Ok, I have a level 97 friend that I help level. Obviously he does a LOT of Baal runs. Now, for the longest time, he kept his Champion status (i.e. not getting credit for the Hell Baal kill) by making sure he did NOT enter a Baal run that did not already have the last quest completed. Of course, about a month ago, he forgot to check, and naturally beat the quest on accident.

    He says that the Baal drops have dropped dramatically since then. And I agree with him...when we do Baal runs, they're private, so just he and I would go in (I'm a conviction pally, he a sorc) for the Baal kill, and we'd make sure he got last hit.

    Any idea what's going on here? I'd say we're just imagining things, but were talking thousands of Baal runs here.

    2nd part: Just goofing around with the above concept, I started goofing around with Andy runs. I did a bunch just normally, and then a bunch where I'd create the game with a character that had NOT killed andy before, come back in with my char that had killed andy already and do the run with her...and andy seems to drop significantly better. As in, on my own runs (andy quest done), I'd get quite a few really bad drops (a single blue, or something to that effect), and some semi-decent, but when I'd do it the other way (andy quest NOT done), the drops just seems WAY better...like I'd get the occasional 3-unique drop, and the frequency of quality drops seems higher.

    Any thing to that?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Shadow_247

    Shadow_247 IncGamers Member

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    Yes, all the act bosses have two different drops tables they select from:
    If you are killing them and have not done the quest, they will drop from Actbossnameq (Difficulty) - Baalq (H)
    If you are killing them and have completed the quest, they will drop from Actbossname (Difficulty) - Baal (H)

    The Baalq (H) TC has better drop odds than the Baal (H) TC. This is the same for all act bosses in all difficulties - the Andarielq (N) TC has better drop odds than the Andariel (N) TC.
     
  3. deanj

    deanj IncGamers Member

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    Is it just the act bosses, Andy, Duriel, Meph, Diablo and Baal that have the different drops? Or do other uniques associated with quests all have different drop tables? (Like the Council and Shenk.)

    Are many people using this strategy do you think? Seems like many will start if they ar e not yet once this becomes widely known.

    Also it seems like a bug that Blizzard may "fix" since I suspect they intended the drops to be better only if the quest is being fullfilled. comments?
    Thanks for the info.
     
  4. Shadow_247

    Shadow_247 IncGamers Member

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    No just the act bosses have those enhanced drops when a quest has not been completed. There are other special drops, such as the countess' rune drop.

    There is one other that I myself don't understand. Duriel has special drops, which I have yet to completely understand. They are Durielq, Duriel, Durielq - Base, and Duriel - Base. If anyone could shed some light on those it would be nice.
     
  5. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Duriel always drops a scroll of Town Portal, for quaint historical reasons. The only way to do this in the TreasureClassEx file is to have him drop Duriel (or Durielq) which drops the Scroll (tsc) and the rest of his drop as a sub-TC, called "Duriel - Base".

    Further explanation of this - a TC can drop either a set number of items (eg superuniques) or a variable number of items (other monsters). This is chosen by whether they have positive or negative values of "Picks". Duriel wants to have a set TP scroll but the rest variable, so the Duriel TC has a fixed 2 picks, one of which is the TP and the other is Duriel - Base, which has a random 7 picks like the other act bosses.
     
  6. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Wow. So the best thing to do when magic finding would be:

    1) Make the game with a hell char who hasn't beaten any bosses (i.e. is still in act 1).
    2) Come back in with the char you mf with, and then kill the bosses you desire (in my case, andy, meph, baal).

    Correct?
     
  7. Kurrelgyre

    Kurrelgyre IncGamers Member

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    Actually, the other way around -

    1) Make the game with a character who has already gotten credit for the boss.

    2) Kill the boss with a character that does NOT have credit. They will get the quest drop, but will not get credit so they can do this over and over.

    The quest completion is checked at the moment of boss death, not when the game is created.

    Of course, this also means that the character cannot go further in the game until they kill the boss for credit.

    Rumor has it that this will be patched soon, if it has not been already.
     
  8. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Kurrelgyre, what you just described is exactly what we had been doing/experiencing with Baal...game created by someone who had done Baal, but killing Baal with someone who did NOT have credit yet. In our opinion, we got significantly better drops.

    However, I'm ALSO seeing better drops by creating a game with a char that has NOT done any boss quests (still in Act 1), but killing the bosses with a char that already has killed the boss. Andariel in particular seems to drop much better.

    Thoughts on this?

    I'll see what I can do about doing 100 andy runs and recording them (50/50 quest done versus not).
     
  9. Ruvanal

    Ruvanal IncGamers Member

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    Andariels set up for qualifing for dropping the quest status drop is messed up. The almost any player will end up doing this quest will end up with her always dropping the quest status drop. The only way to force the no-quest status drop is

    - kill her with a character that has not earned the credit for killing her
    - then leave the game without talking or interacting with ANY of the NPCs in town (this means no selling/buying items from Charsi, Gheed or Akara, no seeing Kashya to raise your merc, no see Cain for identifing items and no going to Warriv to get transport to act 2).
    - join a new game and again without interacting in ANY way with the act 1 NPCs go and kill Andariel again. Then you will get her non-quest drop.

    The interacting with the NPCs changes the state of your quest flags for the sixth quest and the game does not then correctly recognise that you have already killed her and will then continue to use the quest status drop for her.
     
  10. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    You lost me...when you say:
    "- kill her with a character that has not earned the credit for killing her
    - then leave the game without talking or interacting with ANY of the NPCs in town (this means no selling/buying items from Charsi, Gheed or Akara, no seeing Kashya to raise your merc, no see Cain for identifing items and no going to Warriv to get transport to act 2).
    - join a new game and again without interacting in ANY way with the act 1 NPCs go and kill Andariel again. Then you will get her non-quest drop."

    1) The non-quest drop is the good one? As in, that's the andarielq drop?

    2) And if I'm reading you right, one could create a character specifically for andy running. As in, I'd go kill andy, save and exit the game without talking to npcs, go start a nightmare game and do my business (sell, revive merc, get pots), and then just make another hell game and kill andy again (without talking to npcs)?

    3) If the above is true...does that also work for meph (as in, kill meph and save exit...don't take portal to act 4 or talk to npcs)?

    4) Is it possible that I am getting the bossq drop on andarial doing the method I described above (starting game with a char that hasn't done andy, then killing her with a character that has)?

    5) Lastly, if I have not finished Baal quest (still champion), and I join a game that was started by a char that HAS done the Baal quest (i.e. I won't be able to complete quest), and then I myself kill Baal...am I getting the bossq drop?

    Heh, I think that's every question I can think of on the subject ;)
    You guys really do rock...
     
  11. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    No, the non-quest drop is the less good one. Ruvanal is observing that it is actully hard work to not get the good drop from Andy. If you play "normally", killing each boss, proceeding on in the game, then everytime you kill Andy (or Duriel) in the future you will get the quest drop. That is a bug which will probably be fixed eventually, but for now...

    No need, the only reason to do that would be if you felt guilty about using a bug which gave you better drops :xrollseye

    Correct, that is what Kurrelgyre was suggesting. You can get the good drop indefinitely that way.
     
  12. Ruvanal

    Ruvanal IncGamers Member

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    No Zroc, you are getting wrong.
    No, the good drop is andarielq not the andariel (plain). What I described is the eloborate hoops one would need to go through to be getting the poorer drop from her. Since almost no one would ever do this type of activity with the act 1 quest, they are never going to see a drop that does not use the andarielq drop (the good one). There is no real reason to try to get this non-quest drop either.

    It does not matter as to the quest state of the game (based on who created it) as to which drop the game will use (this is actually a bug as it should matter). The quest state of the player landing the killing blow is the only part that matters as far as which type of drop the game will generate for monster set up with these dual drop types (only the act end bosses in the standard release). The game state (quest done or open) will matter for if the character doing the killing can get credit for the quest completion though.

    No, the way the quest flags are set up for the other act end quests is not twisted around the way the flags were set up for killing andariel.

    You are getting the bossq drop, but not for the reason you are thinking. With the a1q6 set up, the flags going into it the first time will not have the 'killed andariel' one set. Since it is not set you will get the bossq type of drop when you kill her and the game will set the sub flag 'killed andariel', but the quest is not done at that point. You still need to go talk to one of the NPCs with a "!" and that will trigger the last portion of the quest to complete it. Part of that completion process is change some of the flags for the quest, including the 'killed andariel' flag back to an uncompleted status (it really did not matter in the earlier versions as a different flag is being used to denote the entire quest is done). But since this is the only flag being checked for determining which of the two drops to use, any time further that you kill her, the game will check that sub flag and see that it is not in the 'set' position and in turn give you the bossq type of drop.

    For the other 4 bosses, either the game is not resetting the sub flag for 'killed boss' for that case (duriel) or the game is only checking the final quest completed status as that is granted at the same time as you kill that boss (mephisto, diablo, baal).

    Correct.
     
  13. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Oh, it doesn't work on Duriel after all? I must have missed that info...
    So it's effectively two bugs cancelling eachother out with him? Awesome :)
     
  14. Zroc

    Zroc IncGamers Member

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    Hehe, sweet.

    So basically, Andarial is always worth killing, and I should make sure I never lose my champion status for the purpose of forcing the better baal drop.

    Excellent, fellas, as always ;)
     

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