PvP WW/Kick/Stun Assassin ---- v. 2.0

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
26. Occasionally play WITHOUT using teleport
Duel some (practice bouts only) without using teleport at all. This is good practice for those times you run out of mana. It also forces you to learn to trap 1.09 style, which is good technique. There are certain duels against fast, defensive casters where you want to do the stationary trap field technique or the walking trap field technique that was common in 1.09. This also helps you get a feel for the limits of dragon flight.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
27. Learn to walk your traps
This is classic 1.09 trapper dueling style (see #3). Good 1.09 trappers learned to herd their opponents by always trapping toward them, preferably at the corners of your screen. Don’t get in the 1.10 habit of hiding in your trap field and letting people get the initiative on you). Defensive trappers are the kind of trapper that loses to me. Because I herd THEM. Offensive trappers are all over you, either by walking their traps toward you or teleporting at you and trapping like mad. Walking your traps allows you to play defensively, but with an offensive element. This is critical when you are dueling other trappers. Obviously, this isn’t applicable to anyone teleporting like mad, in which case you simply have a stationary trap field (assuming defensive play on your part).
 

soc

Banned
Ridiculously detailed.

You might have mentioned this in the guide (I started skimming towards the end), but how exactly do you plan on, for example 80% ww, 20% kick vs. someone? At what time do you call for the ww and at what time do you utilize the kick? Or do you just ww 8 times then kick 2 times :p

Thanks
Soc
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
28. Get a 200 FCR Sorc to tele around you to practice MB name-lock – CRITICAL TECHNIQUE
This is very important. You must develop your name-lock skill for MB. You often only get one or two chances to get it in some duels. Get someone with a 200 fast cast rate sorc and:
1. Tele around you with you standing still. Try to get name-lock with MB.
2. Chase them, trying to get name-lock. Have them play defensively, spamming some low damage fireballs occasionally or something. They shouldn’t just run away in straight line all the time, as this isn’t a true representation of what would happen in a duel.
3. Try doing this with trapping as well, especially with you standing still and using a stationary trap field.
4. Don’t use your SM for ANY of this.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
soc said:
Ridiculously detailed.

You might have mentioned this in the guide (I started skimming towards the end), but how exactly do you plan on, for example 80% ww, 20% kick vs. someone? At what time do you call for the ww and at what time do you utilize the kick? Or do you just ww 8 times then kick 2 times :p

Thanks
Soc
I don't think about it, as to ww or kick. I merely play it by ear and go with habit. The numbers I posted are simply my recall of how my duels go. The idea was to give people an idea of how this is actually a REAL hybrid, not just a kicker with an occassional ww, or a ww with an occasional kick.

In some duels, 200 fcr fireball sorcs, for example, I wear the fury and jade, so it's 100% kick. In some duels, smiter, for example, I never kick at all. And against a bowazon, I will kick and ww, just as I will against the better wind druids. Bad windies can be beaten with kick only. Good windies require something more.

Also, it's hard to talk about good technique without lots and lots of detail. Most guides have just a few words on each class match-up in their strat section, while focusing hugely on items, skills and stats. I feel this is a mistake. If you are making a dueling guide, strategy should always be the primary focus. I'm trying to be different in this way, by putting into words the abstract and automatic techniques that many of the better duelers use.
 

'22'Souljah

Diabloii.Net Member
morotsjos said:
An extra 50 res isn't nearly enough to negate cold mastery.
that's not how it works if you use more than one it's not only the duration that adds up the resist do also
so if a person used 10 thawings he would have an extra 500 cold resist for 50 seconds
this is very simple to test so if you doubt me go find a blizzard sorc
 

morotsjos

Banned
[QUOTE='22'Souljah]that's not how it works if you use more than one it's not only the duration that adds up the resist do also
so if a person used 10 thawings he would have an extra 500 cold resist for 50 seconds
this is very simple to test so if you doubt me go find a blizzard sorc[/QUOTE]
Nono, only the duration adds up, nothing else. The duration is 30 seconds/potion btw, not 5.
 

Weltkriegpally

Diabloii.Net Member
curious. you mention a lot of basic paladin variants, but almost all good paladin players will use charge, one point or not (even at one point, its often very potent). A solid v/t wasn't mentioned (or even a non solid). what happens when you combine the charger/smiter with the foh guy? I am just curious about this. What about a zealot with good dr that also has resists? i reallize that you gave the paladin a lot of leeway when you rated most of his variants as hard, but it has been my experience that there are exile paladins (zealots/smiters), teleporting hammerdins, and then there are good paladin duelers. aside from that, I really can't comment on the other classes. I don't play them enough (besides druids/barbs), and that is something you didn't mention either...a shapeshifting druid. a bear would probably be pretty easy for ww (although not necessarily), but a wolf could tear you apart. Have you dueled any good ones?

--welt
 

Bigrob

Banned
my question is, is there a good way to against hammerdin? their hammer seems to hurt too much.

how do u achieve 65fcr with max dr? trang + spider + 15+fcr ammy +10fcr ring = 65fcr. No place for dungo.

but anyway, gg guide.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
Bigrob said:
my question is, is there a good way to against hammerdin? their hammer seems to hurt too much.
Thought I laid out a decent strat to start with...

how do u achieve 65fcr with max dr? trang + spider + 15+fcr ammy +10fcr ring = 65fcr. No place for dungo.
Every point of fade = 1 DR
15 DR on CoA + 8 DR on enigma + a few points in fade boosted by about +20 skills on equipment = 50 DR.

but anyway, gg guide.
Thanks!
 

Bigrob

Banned
Speederländer said:
Thought I laid out a decent strat to start with...
maybe u should do a little improvement on this part. :D

on the blizz sorc part, i find out that is hard to stack cold resist in hell. U bascially need like 450+ to against any decent blizz sorcs. Any other gear suggestion?
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
Weltkriegpally said:
curious. you mention a lot of basic paladin variants, but almost all good paladin players will use charge, one point or not (even at one point, its often very potent).
I think I talk about charge several times.

A solid v/t wasn't mentioned (or even a non solid). what happens when you combine the charger/smiter with the foh guy? I am just curious about this. What about a zealot with good dr that also has resists? i reallize that you gave the paladin a lot of leeway when you rated most of his variants as hard, but it has been my experience that there are exile paladins (zealots/smiters), teleporting hammerdins, and then there are good paladin duelers. aside from that, I really can't comment on the other classes.
The guide isn't done. There are variants to add yet. V/t is one of them.
Perhaps the better way to talk about pallys is to provide strategy for EACH type of attack separately and let people pick and choose depending on the type of pally. The problem with providing info on each build type is that are about 20 of them.

I don't play them enough (besides druids/barbs), and that is something you didn't mention either...a shapeshifting druid. a bear would probably be pretty easy for ww (although not necessarily), but a wolf could tear you apart. Have you dueled any good ones?
I've never lost to a wolf, at least not when I was going 1 vs 1. Maybe they were good, maybe not, but between massive stun and whirl away they certainly don't tear me apart. I actually had more trouble with one bear in particular than I ever have with any wolves, but stunning them half to death is critical in both cases. Since I didn't check the bear's equipment or what he was doing, I can't really comment on it. That was the only bear to give me any trouble at all. I assume he was totally tricked out.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
Bigrob said:
maybe u should do a little improvement on this part. :D

on the blizz sorc part, i find out that is hard to stack cold resist in hell. U bascially need like 450+ to against any decent blizz sorcs. Any other gear suggestion?
Phase with 5 30 cold res jewels = 150 CR
4 thul shield = 140 CR
Fade = approx 68 CR
Decent Coa with jewel as I outlined in my guide = 55+ CR
Trangs gloves = 30 CR
Anni = 16+ CR (assuming a half decent one)
My FC ring happens to have 11 res all (you can get FC with big cold res) = 11
My ammy has 18 res all = 18 CR

Total = 488 right there

Add cold pot for another 50.

HOWEVER!

This comment by '22'Souljah

that's not how it works if you use more than one it's not only the duration that adds up the resist do also
so if a person used 10 thawings he would have an extra 500 cold resist for 50 seconds
this is very simple to test so if you doubt me go find a blizzard sorc
Makes me think maybe none of that is needed. I need to test the stackability of cold pots.
 

Bigrob

Banned
Speederländer said:
Phase with 5 30 cold res jewels = 150 CR
4 thul shield = 140 CR
Fade = approx 68 CR
Decent Coa with jewel as I outlined in my guide = 55+ CR
Trangs gloves = 30 CR
Anni = 16+ CR (assuming a half decent one)
My FC ring happens to have 11 res all (you can get FC with big cold res) = 11
My ammy has 18 res all = 18 CR

Total = 488 right there

Add cold pot for another 50.

HOWEVER!

This comment by '22'Souljah



Makes me think maybe none of that is needed. I need to test the stackability of cold pots.
wow, never knew that thawt pot actually add cold resist temporary.

But i would rather stack cuz i dont want to drink 10 cold pots everytime when i face blizz sorc.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
Bigrob said:
wow, never knew that thawt pot actually add cold resist temporary.

But i would rather stack cuz i dont want to drink 10 cold pots everytime when i face blizz sorc.
Actually, in my guide I don't advocate stacking unless they are auto-aiming (or being a jerk...). Blizzard is hard to get hits with generally. This helps offset its heavy damage. I provide a technique for dealing with that problem. Stacking is for situations of really nasty behavior. Mostly.
 

Bigrob

Banned
Speederländer said:
Actually, in my guide I don't advocate stacking unless they are auto-aiming (or being a jerk...). Blizzard is hard to get hits with generally. This helps offset its heavy damage. I provide a technique for dealing with that problem. Stacking is for situations of really nasty behavior. Mostly.
i heard that there is a bug report on blizz. If u stand still and ppl blizz u by mouse-click on u, u wont get hit. I have tested countlessly and it seems to be this way. But the problem is if u cant move then u cant kill them either.
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
Bigrob said:
i heard that there is a bug report on blizz. If u stand still and ppl blizz u by mouse-click on u, u wont get hit. I have tested countlessly and it seems to be this way. But the problem is if u cant move then u cant kill them either.
That's interesting. If you have a chance ask in the sorc forum. If it's the case, I'll look into putting it in the guide.

Seems unlikely though. I don't recall being immune just by standing there...
 

Netzuke

Diabloii.Net Member
I have a question for you, speed. Can you post your damage with this build? You mention things in the guide which seem to drop people fast. Could you maybe post your damage on the following...

Kick
Normal Melee
WW
DF with chargeups
 

Speederländer

Diabloii.Net Member
Netzuke said:
I have a question for you, speed. Can you post your damage with this build? You mention things in the guide which seem to drop people fast. Could you maybe post your damage on the following...

Kick
Normal Melee
WW
DF with chargeups
When I get on-line, I'll check it. But a couple comments...

1. Why would normal melee be an attack damage of interest? My guide doesn't ever discuss using such an attack.
2. My guide does not involve charge ups. Indeed, if you look at the skills, there isn't a single charge-up there. There are NO charge-ups useful in a PvP situation.

Off the top of my head, my listed kick max is like 1K or so, maybe a tad less, forget the min. Add to that lvl 46 venom (and whatever other sources may contribute, like magic damage on chaos) and you have the damage.
My WW damage is also pretty standard. Physical is lower, because I use runics, but the real damage comes from venom, followed by physical, magic and OW. Take a typical WW, subtract some physical damage, add on lvl 46 venom boosted by trangs and you have my damage.
 

Purester

Diabloii.Net Member
Hey speed I have a question: does poison damage from charms (ei 25 poison dmg over 5 seconds) affect venom dmg? Does it make it stronger or weaker?
 
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