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Pvp wind druid seeking advice.

Discussion in 'Druid' started by Arc, Feb 4, 2004.

  1. Arc

    Arc IncGamers Member

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    Pvp wind druid seeking advice.

    Can anyone tell me how to beat tele necros?
    Even with enigma and slow missiles from sanctuary i can't even scratch them.
    When i get close they just tele off screen and as my druid lacks any good ranged spell i'm screwed.
    I'm beginning to think that good necs are unbeatable and if that's true i guess it's quitting time for me(why play if you can't win?).
    God i hate blizzard for ****ing up my favourite game(i want 1.09 back :xx: ).
     
  2. ReallFugitive

    ReallFugitive IncGamers Member

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    Just don't duel them then. Druids have crappy FHR in human form, and I bet you're on ladder so you don't have that great of charms. Anytime they hit you, you will go directly into hit recovery. As for you quitting, that seems childish. A word from the wise, You can't expect to beat everyone. Especially already overpowered pvm builds like Hammerdins and Poison/Bone necromancers which will obviously doing way more PVP damage than should be allowed with no way to resist it. I am fairly confident that blizzard will enforce a greater Magic damage penalty in the future for these attacks in PVP. So agian, don't duel them or camp their body until they leave (Most of the time they use cheap tactics like heal anyway).
     
  3. Arc

    Arc IncGamers Member

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    Well you see the problem is that in almost every game there is one necro that's just dominating everyone and the thing that pisses me off is i can't do anything about it. If we're having problems with trap asas my friend comes with his charger with ga + tgods and kills them until they leave, foh palas are no problem to my tele druid, hammerdins same. But necs are different story no char mine or my friends can beat them. That's why i made this thread to get some advice and if they are really unbeatable i see no point in playing this game anymore
    because typical game would look like that: i find game like duel, duelz etc i join, kill some/get killed by some, nec join kills all, then everyone just sits in town waiting for nec to leave...bleh what's the point in playing.
    I guess i move on to gunbound like some druids did.
     
  4. Asheron

    Asheron IncGamers Member

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    They aren't all that hard with the good strat,really. :p

    Here's what I do:

    Hide in a corner as shown here .

    If the nec starts shooting BS' at you just tele to the other other side in order to make the BS hit the wall. (red arrow)

    He should be running in a sort of circle around that corner trying to get hits in,that's where you suddenly teleport ontop of him and finisih him off. (yellow arrow )
     
  5. Arc

    Arc IncGamers Member

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    Nice strat but good nec won't let me hit him. My cast rate>his cast rate so if i tele on him and before i cast tornado he's gone...
    Btw i have 100 fcr and 99 fhr.
     
  6. Royal_Paladin14

    Royal_Paladin14 Banned

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    hmm i dont see why your having so much trouble. i've only lost to a necro once with my wind druid. and that was cuz i was lagging near death and going back to town. and got caught by a lucky bone spear when all my summons were dead. just keep recasting summons and they'll bone the bone spells for you. the trick to kill a nec is tele around or make them follow you then all of a sudden name lock on them and cast tornado at them asap. it works for me everytime. only the wuss necros are hard to catch cuz they'll keep teleing away and staying more than 1 screen away form you. but they can't hurt you either that way it'll just be a draw because they wont' take any risk. you might wanna practice your name lock skill. and most necs lose to sorcs and assasins and good hammerdins and winddruids. so i don't see how they could be owning entire games. espeically if you party up. a few zons with fanata will rip apart any necro instatnly. ( i went agianst my friend's level 94 necro wiht almsot 6k bs damage(marrow bug) godly pnb gcs with 40 ish life, cta.etc. and the score was 10-0, my wind druid friend did a something like xx-1 agianst him with his winddruid he had godlyc harms but he didn't even have cta. so necros actually aren't that great agianst wind druid unless they play too defensively but you wont' lose to them either.)
    if you think there is no point in playing this game just cuz you can't beat a few people who are better than you then i guess it's not hard to see whyt his is your fav game. cuz in games like wc3, sc, counter-strike or should i say any non rpg online games you problaby will never beat most people. games are just games if your too afraid to lose you'll never get better. i was once one of the top players in age of empire 2 expansion. i dind't play nearly as much as most people who weren't nearly as good as me. i was good cuz i wans't afraid to lose i enjoyed getting owned by people who were better than me. that's hwo you get better at anything. challenge makes you good and the only reason you would see no point in doing something is if there was no challege in it.
     
  7. Arc

    Arc IncGamers Member

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    Heh few zons...i never seen more than 2 bow zons in game. I play on europe btw and i haven't seen a good bowazon yet. My name locking is not perfect but i can get a lock sometime and still that doesn't help me. Any good necro will tele away as i tele on him so my tornado won't hit him. I could try to kill him with hurricane but 10 min duels are quite boring. You say that you rarely loose to a nec, well either you are that good or you didn't fight a good nec yet.
    And by good i don't mean with godly gear i mean with tactics and strategy.
    Oh and reason i plan to quit is not that i'm getting my *** kicked by better then me(I never complain if a wind dru or v/t beats me, even when fire sorc kills me in two hits it's ok because i know if i didn't make a mistake i could win) but i don't see a way i could beat a nec as they have more dmg more range better fhr and fcr and bone armor and i have no advantage over him.
    I played starcraft for some time and if you want to compare those two games the way i see it(dru vs nec) is like playing zerg without mutalisks against terrans whose battlecruisers cost 100/100 takes only 1 supplies and you can produce them at barracks, you think you could win? The beauty of starcraft was that any race could beat any race and there was no overpowered things like bone necros in d2.
     
  8. Royal_Paladin14

    Royal_Paladin14 Banned

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    i've dueled good or bad necros in pub or private duels some of them were hard to catch but they never did serious damage to me cuz i alaways have summons everywhere and i lawyas tele away and recast them. you can just tele around chase them or make htem follow you if the necro makes a mistake they die. if you do your summons die. in fact i don't remember ever being scratched by bone spirits they are just too easy to dodge when you tele and you have summons to take a bunch of hits for you. name locking on top of the necro wont' work a lot of times but it works often enough to let you win and you can try to tele ahead or around them and spam tornados. if you have that much trouble maybe yoru connection or comp is a bit slow or your just not doing to fast enough. and make sure you have hurricane and summons on to lag, stun, distract, and tank them. if you can't stand not being able to beat everyone under 10 seconds that's your problem cuz youw on't be able to catch a 8fcr teler who's always teleing away no matter what but it will at least keep them from killing people. imo fire ball sorcs are more of a problem if you dont' have good fhr or max fire reist. cuz 1 hit ur armor is gone and 2 more hits even with oak you'll probalby die. i've bet a lot of blizzard and fireball sorcs who simply tanked me but there's no way a necro could tank you. not to mention sorcs generally tele faster and have infinte mana. they shoot fireballs a lot faster than necros and bs is pretty useless agians ta druid who's not reckless. the real problem for druids is trappers if you dont' absorb.
     
  9. Arc

    Arc IncGamers Member

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    Good point but most good necs uses spears not spirits and they can kill with teeth even. It's not like i want to kill all under 10 secs but chasing nec for 10 min don't seem like fun to me. And fire sorcs are much easier than nec mostly because with them first shot won't hurt you so you just recast cyclone armor.
    But i guess i haven't dueled good sorcs.
     
  10. DemonicTutor

    DemonicTutor IncGamers Member

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    In order to beat necros you need to understand how the summon/teleport stacking bug works.

    Basically if you "teleport" (not walk/run) with summons present, your character becomes an immune target to ranged attacks and spells/skills that seek IE GA or Spirits will pass through your character (looks alot like peirceing GA's from .09) and deal no damage.

    So as long as you can remember to keep summons present and recast the dumb things, you will not get hit by teeth/spears/or spirits. This works for pretty much everyone, I'v seen fireball sorc's use this strategy by casting charges of oak sage from HOTO (not for the life boost, but for the summon/teleport bug).

    Think of your wolves like cylcone armour when dueling a necro. When you duel a fireball sorc, you recast your cyclone armour after every 1-2 hits right? Well do the same thing vs a necro, after every 1-2 teeth/spears recast your summons. If they die off, all those ranged spells start to target your character and you die quickly.

    Also if hurricane isn't dealing signifigant damage or turning them blue, don't cast it. It slows down your direct drawl makeing your frames per second less than desirable, so your teleports become sloppy. Don't need cyclone armour vs necro's either, but this isn't a big lag dealer. Keep 5 ravens up too, if they activate a block frame, that can keep the necro from running away before your nado hits.

    And lastly, if all else fails, go find yourself these runes: Ko Ko Mal, stick em in a 3 socket sheild, and slow missile the poor sap.
     
  11. Æ’enris

    Æ’enris Banned

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    That's not how it works. They can't target you when your summons are stacked, but something that is locked on or aoe will still hit you. Recast your bear. How much life do you have? Wolves will die too fast, go with bear.
    Keep oak up too, that's your only defense, more life. Also, may want to switch out ss for lidless (if you followed my guide) when dueling a nec. Hurricane won't lag a good comp, and if it does just change your mode to 2d and not 3d.

    If you get bs chasing you simply outrun them, as soon as the necro stops to cast you need to be on top of him casting nado, that's the only way really, if you can't do that then you just need to get faster.
     
  12. DemonicTutor

    DemonicTutor IncGamers Member

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    Not true, Have a necro lock your name and spam BS. Then teleport on him with ur summons, the spirits will peirce back n forth dealing no damage.

    It's a bug that existed in .09 and is still present in 1.1. I remeber tons of necro vs sin duels in wich I lock the sins name and spam spirits, only to have her stack the shadow master by dragon flighting on me, then the spirits peirce back n forth dealing no damage.

    It is countered however when your summon/summons are no longer stacked. So if the necro side steps, and causes your summons to all rush off of your character, then suddenly all the locked spirits stop peirceing and they hit.

    If you don't belive me try it for yourself. The trick is to keep the summons stacked on the character, if you walk or if the summons become attrackted to a target and run off of your character, then the bug no longer helps you. For this reason, it works best when you teleport ontop of the necro because then your summons stay stacked as they all stationarily attack the necro.

    And as for summons, I still chose wolves over bear. With 5-6k spirits/spears your bear will die in 1 attack as it is, so the life on your summons becomes moot, and therefor haveing 3 or 5 summons that die in 1 hit is better than 1 summon that dies in 1 hit. Only difference would be teeth spam, I think a bear can take a couple teeth waves while wolves cant. This also depends on if you battle order your summons beforehand, and have a oak present.

    Also about the hurricane thing, I tryed without 3d mode and the other video options, which did reduce the frame display, but hurricane still causes more frame display lag than without it cast. This is non-debateable, type /fps, teleport with hurricane and check the frames, then try without, there is a definate difference. Depends on if the individual consideres it signifigant or not, I for one think its signifigant for serious duels (ie: the best west necros). In which case they use ravenfrost as it is with 75% res, so hurricane does like less than 50 damage per 25 frames to them. You can't tell me you consider that ammount of damage to be more important than increasing your frame display rate. 50 damage on a 3k life necro isn't jack, and your hardly ever close enough for it to land hits. However if they are useing oak often enough, I will take the frame sacrifice to kill the sage with hurricane.
     
  13. Æ’enris

    Æ’enris Banned

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    3.5k life bear + oak + bo, about 9k, then it scales up with the players in game does it not?
    Hurricane doesn't lag my framerate. It's all about that extra attacking source, which is going to go towards stunning a nec. Anyway, what if the nec wins with 49 life left, then is it worth a couple frames eh?
     
  14. DemonicTutor

    DemonicTutor IncGamers Member

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    There is no possible way it doesn't effect your frames at all. Unless your playing single player or LAN.

    And hurricane doesn't cause stun frames when it's dealing less than 50 damage, it has to be 1/16th of a players totall max life to cause a stun frame.

    And maybe when a necro beats me with 100-200 life I will consider useing it, but untill then, landing perfect non-desynced teleports with follow up tornadoes is far more important. Evenso, wind druids have a obvious advantage over necros as it is.

    Maybe when you get off ladder and you duel some of the best westy necs, you'll see how important a few frames are when landing name-locked teleports is a near impossible feat with any lag present, especally since they sport 125 cast and equally impressive fhr.
     
  15. Æ’enris

    Æ’enris Banned

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    There are just as good of necs on ladder.
    I just checked, alright.
    I had 60fps, I go out, I cast hurricane, it goes down to 45 and then back up to 60.
     
  16. DemonicTutor

    DemonicTutor IncGamers Member

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    Well yea, your frames will be the same if your stationary. Try teleporting around with hurricane and compair those frames to teleporting without hurricane.

    If you don't notice a signifigant difference, then no harm no foul. Guy wanted some advice for dueling nec's and this is a strat I have found usefull vs really good necros, if noone else finds it usefull then I guess im alone on this one. At the very least it's worth testing out if you can't seem to beat a particular necro.

    I personally know many nec duelers who have played the class since classic, and many are still playing today. You will agree that the newschool necros and or pubby nec's pale in comparison to the oldschoolers once you duel them. Just ask some GI people or eotd- or clan-honor about a few household names, tenken, bati, moto, sharrigan, tien, dod, neo, more im forgetting sorry if I didn't mention you guys :D
     
  17. Æ’enris

    Æ’enris Banned

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    You're forgetting that mass teleport is a fairly new thing. Everyone had an equal chance to learn how to use enigma once 1.10 came out. I mean, I was by no means some godly player in 09, the farthest I had gone was a gris caddy fury wolf :teeth: , never even thought about an elemental druid. Likewise, a lot of builds have changed, and strategies as well.
    The oldschool duelers are probably still good, but there is a lot of new blood that has had just as much chance to learn the ropes as the older players did.
     
  18. Voice

    Voice IncGamers Member

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    you know how to learn how to beat them ???

    keep dueling them and deriving more strategies .. there are a ton of different methods of dueling ... try them all:

    basic ways:
    persuer (you charge after them, can be both offencive or defensive)
    runner (you run away or tele, can be both offencive or defensive)
    toe-toe (same screen for casters)
    using the environement like asheon suggested, use a house or something as well.
    defensive (let them cast to learn what they are doing)
    offensive (mostly idiots or people with good gear and can afford to take a hit or 100 do this)

    Most people dont realize you get better by practice . just use what i put above and test out your enemies ... you'll eventually get it especially w/ the help your getting here.

    most important is patience ... you have to look for the right time to attack ... sometimes this takes a min or two, but thats the price you have to pay if you want to win consistently

     

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