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PvP Shock Ranger Viable ?

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by KOL_Famine, Mar 26, 2004.

  1. KOL_Famine

    KOL_Famine IncGamers Member

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    PvP Shock Ranger Viable ?

    After taking a quick look at the sticky guides I can't see any ranger articles so i'm assuming it's safe to ask without getting my head bitten off, anyway ...

    Before anything else this idea is based around the Uniq Spider Bow: Widow Maker that grants the user Guided Arrow. I know people are going to say that it's bm but this pal is strictly for East Ladder where ever room is full of amp smiters, hf zealots, Tele casters with op syns etc

    After seeing a medicore Tesladin on ladder run to the stash and put on a widow maker and proceed to run out spewing arrows I was suprised to see him inflicting crazy damage upon the members of the room.It turned out that he did better with the bow then his melee weapon. So thus the seed was planted and so far i've been thinking:

    Templar / Ranger (Yes its far from my own idea but this is my take)

    Skills

    Max Holy Shock
    Max Resist Light
    Max Salvation

    Seeming bow is main weapon and theres nothing to spend skill points on maxing salvation is quite worth it imo.

    That leaves probably 30 - 40 ish skill points left and I was thinking with the maxed holy shock and lightning theme that Foh would be a good idea

    Max FoH
    Convic to 25 after skills, maybe 10 x off Aura charms
    Rest vigor maybe

    I like the idea of not having to use a switch to get secondary attack like charge or something because im on 56k and switching mid duel it painful.

    Itmes

    Helmet: 5/5 Light Shako ( wont wear griffons because it looks awful)
    Armour: Low Str CoH
    Belt: Verg Cord
    Bow: Perfect Widowmaker (5/5 light facet maybe, Shael ? not sure on bow bp's)
    Gloves: Not sure, maybe partial set with boots or something (might need ias)
    Boots: Not sure, maybe partial set with gloves or something (Might need 40 r/w to avoid slowness)
    Amulet: Maras (might need highlors for ias ?)
    Ring1: Raven
    Ring2: Bk or something ?

    Stats

    Str: min for equipment
    Dex: min for equipment ? Ga is itd and all the damage will be lightning anyway
    Vit: All else
    Eng: none

    Charms:

    Haven't really got a good set of small charms with good mods so maybe 10 x offensive aura charms with life because they will be dirt cheap.
    Rest: Faster run walk charms with useful mods, Anni

    Summary

    - Pal has rapid firing auto tracking Arrows with insane amounts of lightning
    damage
    - Pal has Maxed Foh and syn / Conviction (25) so big foh damage to toss into the lighntning storm
    - Pal has immense potential life only needing a little str and dex.
    - Pal has maxes resists (CoH, Maras, charms if need be)
    - Pal is baal friendly (Lvl 40 resist lightning is going to make a joke of those souls)

    If anyone can see any serious problems with this build apart from the fact that it's all lightning damage and won't be able to duel Wind druids and a few other top notch nasty things please add some feed back to save me wasting my time building it. Also if anyone knows anything about bow bp's with widowmaker please give us a yell :p. I'm not looking for a char that owns everything otherwise there are already cheesy cookie chars to build, more something out of the usual that has a chance of doing some damage to some of the chars out there.
     
  2. Pravda

    Pravda IncGamers Member

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    You will have big problems against someone who stacks light resist. I would probably max fana just in case. Also max holy shield and use the switch for smite. Otherwise you would be just like a bowazon, and we all know how zons fare against pallys in this patch....
     
  3. strength_honor

    strength_honor Banned

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    This paladin sure has some application...

    But to refine it more you need...

    20 Holy Shock
    20 Resist Lightning
    20 Salvation
    20 FOH
    1 into Prayer, Vigor, Cleansing, Meditation, Defiance, Conviction, Holy Shield.
    rest into Holy Freeze.

    1-9000 light dmg from Holy Shock
    3500 from FOH
    95% LR
    49DR in Shield Mode/ 41DR in Bow Mode...

    a Engima MagePlate is better than COH...

    the use of 5/5 Light Facet is redundant... they dont add enough dmg to your FOH/Holy Shock attack... plus you need the shako and shield sockets for Ber runes.

    without Fanaticism you will be shooting quite slow so dont even bother with using any IAS. Use...

    Manner Setup:

    Primary: WidowMaker Um'ed
    Secondary: HoTO / Herald of Zak Ber'ed
    Shako Ber'ed
    Engima MagePlate
    BK ring/Raven Frost
    Bloodfist
    Gorerider.
    Highlord or Mara

    BM Setup:

    Primary: WidowMaker Um'ed
    Secondary: Doom Zerker or Lower Resist Wand or / Herald of Zak
    Shako Ber'ed
    Engima
    Wisp Protector/Raven Frost
    Dracul's Grasp
    Gorerider
    Atma's Scarab

    This build are pretty solid against casters... but WWsin and WW barb will just rip it apart if they are good.
     
  4. wisedoor

    wisedoor IncGamers Member

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    I don´t see the point to have FoH if the entire build is made around using a bow. Yea, it´s tempting to get it, but Bow and Foh are somewhat exclusive, and FoH isn´t this good in a build not focused in FoH...
    With Holy Shock, you need 130 ias to reach the minimum desirable FPA (9).
    You need 80 ias to reach 10 fpa with HS.
    With Fana, you reach 9 fpa (minimum to duel and last bp to palas) with 40 ias.
     
  5. strength_honor

    strength_honor Banned

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    FOH is a must if you already spend 20 pts in Holy Shock.
     
  6. JohnYKR

    JohnYKR IncGamers Member

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    FOH sounds good, because you already have the synergies, but you should probably have another source of damage. I think that going tesla/froster would be viable. Holy Freeze would be cold damage and you could flash HF, slowing everthing in sight. So you would have to forms of damage and nothing would be able to reach you.
     
  7. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger IncGamers Member

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    Just wondering where you got 1-9000 damage for holy shock. With shock and its synergies at lvl 20? Doesn't get nearly that high...I think around 1-4k damage. Now if you get towards like lvl 24 Shock I think its around almost 6k in damage, but I have yet to see 9k and I have been doing rangers for awhile now.

    And the ranger index stickied up top may help out some.

    And my opinion, since you would already have salvation maxed, why not dump points into Freeze and make it a Storm Ranger. That way if your opponent has light absorb/resist gear you can switch off to Freeze. Points in Blessed Aim wil help too for the AR bonus, but with guided its really not needed so you can point the points into cold res. I will tell you though, playing a PVP Ranger can be tough. Even with guided you will stilll have to aim a little bit. And Enigma wearing opponents can be tough to lock on.

    Just my $.02.

    -PallyRanger
     
  8. strength_honor

    strength_honor Banned

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    20 Holy Shock + 10 Offesensive Charm + shako + highlord + BK Ring + anni

    gives 1-9000
     
  9. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger IncGamers Member

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    Ah I see now. Lvl 36+ holy shock from + to skillz items with maxed synergies. Didn't see that up there when you listed your items. You simply stated lvl 20 with max synergies. I did not see the charms. My bad.

    -PallyRanger
     
  10. KOL_Famine

    KOL_Famine IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the input guys:

    Not being able to beat a few of the tanky chars like barbs and etc is not a problem really. I have a really nice fc bear atm that kills things that don't run around, so I wanted something ranged and different to kill the pests that try to ruin melee duels.

    Few questions, how am I going to get Anyway near decent resists without chais of honor (I don't have charms with resists on ladder)

    I'm guessing no one saw any problems with leaving the dex at the possible minimum equpiment requirment which is good, this pal is going to have a load of life by the looks.

    As I said Pravada i'm on 56k and having to switch mid duels usually gets me killed so if possible I want to avoid it, anyways if I get smite then the bow will end up being second fiddle :)

    After thinking about your skill point input hows this ?

    20 Holy Shock
    20 Resist Light
    20 Salvation
    20 Fist

    10 Holy freeze or 20 holy freeze
    10 Conviction

    The question in my mind is how effectice will FoH be without conviction. In public people have low light res so it should be fine but vs anyone with common sense i'm going to have A useless foh and shock, and just lvl 40 ish Holy freeze with my bow which I hope does a decent amount of damage.
    The setup on left will give me the optimal Bow damage, lvl 35 holy freeze or so and lvl 25 conviction so I can still use FoH well if I need it. Or should I just scrap foh and end up with this

    20 Holy Shock
    20 Resist Light
    20 Salvation
    20 Holy Freeze
    20 Resist Cold

    This build I lose the doh option and get both bow damage types optimal. Also I had a crash course in aiming a eth wf bow in 09 from good ol Hydrostorm so my aim won't be completely useless by itself. But that leaves me with only a Bow, but with two types of damage it should be okay. At the moment i'm kind of leaning to the bottom option because it's more bow orientated and probably more versatile in the end with two damage types. Also some bliz sorc is going to blowl her mind when shes dumping bliz on me and im healing :p

    Other concerns:

    Why High Lords ?, If i'm not going to bother with more ias then I don't see the point because deadly strike won't work with lightning damage ? and Maras has +2, 5 all stats, 30 all res.
    Runwalk Speed, how much am I going to need to be speedy enough to run around and dodge stuff.
    Resists, how am I going to get them without CoH

    My Rate of fire, Is it going to be too slow ?
     
  11. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger IncGamers Member

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    First off,

    If you go and do the dual elemental ranger(Storm Ranger) get yourself a Wizendraw bow for the freeze. It lowers cold resistances by like 30% average which increases your cold damage. And when switching from freeze to shock or vice versa just switch weapons. For the shock, upgrade a Rogue's Bow and use that. It is the fastest base speed bow in the game and I say Shael it for more IAS.

    Try getting good IAS gloves, and something like IK boots which have 40% faster run which should keep you fleet of foot. Something you may want to try is looking for rare rings/ammys with buncha resists. You will be giving up the + to skills most likely but it will help when some sorc is blasting orbs and assassins are tossing around light traps.

    -PallyRanger
     
  12. KOL_Famine

    KOL_Famine IncGamers Member

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    I don't think losing widowmaker will be a good idea. The amount i'll miss firing a normal bow with more freeze damage will easily make widowmaker better for the Guided arrow. Also if i'm not using the itd on Guided then I have to worry about attack ratings when there are 40k - 50k defence chars running around everywhere. Also it's going to be hard enough to hit tele ing chars let alone having to aim the bow totally manually.

    Resists don't have to be a problem with a low str CoH and Maras. I'm going to have a tonne of life anyway (Close to base dex hopefully) so I think I can afford to spend the str enigma would of saved me into strength and lose a little of the massive life i'll have hopefully :)

    On a final note, can someone give me a link to a calculator or calculate this for me:

    Damage from Holy freeze with WidoMaker ?
    info:
    lvl 38 Holy Freeze
    lvl 38 Resist Cold
    lvl 38 Salvation
    lvl 13 Guided Arrow

    Widowmaker
    Ward Bow
    Ladder Only
    93.75-112.5 Avg Damage
    52.5-63 - 135-162
    146 Str Required
    72 Dex Required
    Item Level: 73
    Clvl Req: 65
     
  13. Pravda

    Pravda IncGamers Member

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    I think you got the stats wrong. According to arreat summit that bow has a dex req of 146. Pretty high if you ask me. You migh want to consider socketing it with a -15req/ed jewel or something.
     
  14. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger IncGamers Member

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    Sorry KOL_Famine,

    I did not realize most everyone is a little richer than I in this game. I make the poor-man's rangers(I use what I can find) and I am an occassional player so I don't mf at all. I just build a new ranger, try him out and level him up until he gets about where I am happy with him, then I retire him. If you got the wealth for super-items by all means go for it.

    And an enigma, with guided, and shock would be a deadly combo I would think. Make the zons run for their lives. Oh to see that. :clap:

    And Pravda is right about the dex being 146 and the strength is 72.

    -PallyRanger
     
  15. KOL_Famine

    KOL_Famine IncGamers Member

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    Thanks again for input

    I'm sorry also Ranger,

    I thought you were talking about theoretical optimal setups and with my limited Ranger knowledge I was trying to work out why you were wearing different things. I can see you know what your talking about so im deffinately willing to listen to what you have to say. Still can't decide on which of these two skill setups is the one to go, would love your input on pros and cons of each in your oppinion if you'd like to help.

    20 Holy Shock
    20 Resist Light
    20 Salvation
    20 Fist of the Heavens
    7 conviction ( + 8 skills from gear, + 10 offensive from charms)
    Rest Holy Freeze

    Or

    20 Holy Shock
    20 Resist Light
    20 Salvation
    20 Holy freeze
    20 Resist Cold

    FoH or Two optimal Bow damage types ? Power vs Versatility in my mind. Verse a prepared dueler with light res Power (all light dmg) is going to be useless, where as Versatility (Light, Cold) wins out. Although verse un prepared public drones Power is going to win duels faster in the majority of the time.

    Also I copied the stats staight off dii.net items page, if they are indeed really switched I think It will indeed need a hel and i'm not going to have as much life as I thought which is downer.
     
  16. wisedoor

    wisedoor IncGamers Member

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    No, it isn´t. It´s very tempting but a waste of potential power.

    If you want to go ranger, max HS and HF, and don´t touch FOH. Aurajuggle.
    OR
    Make a templar that use a bow on switch. Focus on making a good templar and leave that bow as 2nd wep.
     
  17. strength_honor

    strength_honor Banned

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    Holy Shield is a 1-pt skill if you not smite

    Max FOH then do HF which is what I said.

    Ranger/Templar is good.

    plus using 10 x offensive charm already cover the conviction/Holy Freeze problem, so what make the ranger not a good templar ?
     
  18. PallyRanger

    PallyRanger IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm

    i think the templar/ranger hybrid could be very viable in PVP. I have never player a templar before so my knowledge on them is very limited...maybe a more experienced templar builder can help there. But, I would think that anyone with some decent light res and a lightsabre would be a problem. That would reduce the effects of your main attack even with conviction aura on. but I am really not sure....Strength_Honor appears to know what he is talking about. Maybe he can help you there.

    As far as versatility goes, the cold/light way gives you the option of flashing the two aruas while you are firing the bows. It kind of makes it so you are dealing a ton of light and cold damage together. Maxed(lvl 20) holy shock does huge max damage but has a big range, 1-4.2k. Whereas maxed freeze does less damage but is more consistent with its damage, 1.2k-1.4k. Also, flashing the freeze every once and awhile will slow your opponent down some also, something like by 35% when maxed out.

    If you are truly going to use auras up into the 30+ range, big big BIG damage. I dont have a calculator for figuring them out past 20 but I could only imagine. I got lvl 23 light on my Heaven's Wrath ranger and he does about 4.8k damage max. Folks cant figure out how I can get over 4k with a bow...LOL Non-pally players of course. And if you ever did team duels and pair up with a conviction using pally....Look out!!! That would be an optimum situation, or maybe one with conviction and one with fana for the IAS. That would b a very tough group to beat.

    -PallyRanger
     

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