Uncle_Mike
D2 PvP Moderator
Please, refrain from calling people names, he has his opinion and I am quite sure he is looking for feedback and not insults.
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PvP (Past and the Future Disbalance)
- Thread starter BoNeFeTisH
- Start date
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Majaii
Diabloii.Net Member
I think the point with the dislike of runewords like enigma and cta is the fact that using those runewords, you demolish the line of difference between the classes. Now i don't hardly ever pvp, mainly because of gear, if i am going to duel someone, it should be a battle of skill, and exploiting the differences in the way i built my character, then an automatic no chance loss because my gear sucks.
This is also why i dislike hammerdins, and will never play one, because they exist only by stealing other classes unique (no longer) abilities. Would so many people play hamerdins without tele and bo? I don't really think so. I think what the poster is trying to say is, the skill level of a pvp battle has totally gone down the drain because character lines have blurred.
I would agree though that the main reason for this is the game is old, and all the options have already been done with straight character classes. And arguing that the current pvp duels with tele and high fcr not even optional is more skillful is true if your thinking of motor skills. But if your talking of matching wits, which in my opinion is what pvp is all about, then todays pvp battles are for the brain dead, no offense intended :tongue: because they don't require you to out strategize your opponent, just have good gear and be faster at tele then he is.
In the end it's all a matter of what kind of game you want to play, i have as much fun; when im in the mood for it, playing halo as i do supreme commander, but me personally, i feel a bigger accomplishment when i have out thought my opponent, as opposed to being faster with the buttons then they are. Both have they're pluses, just depends on what you feel like.
my long 2 cents lol.
-Majaii
This is also why i dislike hammerdins, and will never play one, because they exist only by stealing other classes unique (no longer) abilities. Would so many people play hamerdins without tele and bo? I don't really think so. I think what the poster is trying to say is, the skill level of a pvp battle has totally gone down the drain because character lines have blurred.
I would agree though that the main reason for this is the game is old, and all the options have already been done with straight character classes. And arguing that the current pvp duels with tele and high fcr not even optional is more skillful is true if your thinking of motor skills. But if your talking of matching wits, which in my opinion is what pvp is all about, then todays pvp battles are for the brain dead, no offense intended :tongue: because they don't require you to out strategize your opponent, just have good gear and be faster at tele then he is.
In the end it's all a matter of what kind of game you want to play, i have as much fun; when im in the mood for it, playing halo as i do supreme commander, but me personally, i feel a bigger accomplishment when i have out thought my opponent, as opposed to being faster with the buttons then they are. Both have they're pluses, just depends on what you feel like.
my long 2 cents lol.
-Majaii
CdMagicFind
Diabloii.Net Member
I think Enigma/CTA were balancers. =/ No more barbs with double your life pool (well, okay, still a few =p). And teleporting for everyone lets people have more control/speed.
And I think there's more viable PvP "top tier" builds now than ever.
So. 1.11 is pretty win. Reminds me of smash brothers with gear.
And I think there's more viable PvP "top tier" builds now than ever.
So. 1.11 is pretty win. Reminds me of smash brothers with gear.
jesterlolz
Diabloii.Net Member
Indeed, I'd say 09 were the glory days. As long as you could find a group of friends to duel without hexes/wrings/occy rings/bugged occys/bugged shafts/white belts/etc :grin: . Anyways, I did like the gameplay back then, it was more rock - paper - scissors esque.
Anyway, I thought the bvb duels back then were SOOOO much more fun.
Anyway, I thought the bvb duels back then were SOOOO much more fun.
BoNeFeTisH
Diabloii.Net Member
2 CdMagicFind
I hope you remember the times of Diablo 1. In my opinion Blizzard had introduced there the basic concept of RPG. 3 main and completely different classes. As in any sane RPG we had a big guy with muscles, a lot of life and who had problems with thinking (Warrior), than, a swift as the wind and gentle girl-archer (Rogue) and a pale, half dead mage with little life but magic powers (well, their mage was black). Everyone had strong and weak sides. Now as you said,-CTA and Teleport are balancers=Imagine, that warrior has acces to magic powers as well as big life, pale mage got his muscles from CTA, the same with Rogue. You have everything and even more. This is cool? The difference of characters is rather blurred! IMHO Diablo was about trying to use the best side of the character and improve a little bit the weak sides. Everyone has to have weak sides! Otherwise its like playing a 3d shooter in god mode.
After many years of dueling in Europe Realm I have no doubts that a good and fair win is when not a huge difference in level or quality of equipment rules, but when you logically defeat your opponent. People who defeated my necro where really better, not equipment, but their prediction of the next action in the duel. It was fun to loose in that duel but is it fun to win with your equipment?
I hope you remember the times of Diablo 1. In my opinion Blizzard had introduced there the basic concept of RPG. 3 main and completely different classes. As in any sane RPG we had a big guy with muscles, a lot of life and who had problems with thinking (Warrior), than, a swift as the wind and gentle girl-archer (Rogue) and a pale, half dead mage with little life but magic powers (well, their mage was black). Everyone had strong and weak sides. Now as you said,-CTA and Teleport are balancers=Imagine, that warrior has acces to magic powers as well as big life, pale mage got his muscles from CTA, the same with Rogue. You have everything and even more. This is cool? The difference of characters is rather blurred! IMHO Diablo was about trying to use the best side of the character and improve a little bit the weak sides. Everyone has to have weak sides! Otherwise its like playing a 3d shooter in god mode.
After many years of dueling in Europe Realm I have no doubts that a good and fair win is when not a huge difference in level or quality of equipment rules, but when you logically defeat your opponent. People who defeated my necro where really better, not equipment, but their prediction of the next action in the duel. It was fun to loose in that duel but is it fun to win with your equipment?
mephiztophelez
Diabloii.Net Member
i think most of the disbalance in PvP is item based rather than build-based.
specifically, i'm thinking of elemental Sorb. imho integer sorb needs to be removed altogether and %sorb capped at ~15-20%. i dont mind is someone pulls out a wisp, but two wisps and a t-gods completely zonks most lit-based attackers (add in a Lo blackthorns and that 50k lit sosa is a healing fountain). Elemental resistences should cap at 85% instead of 95%.
Enigma is ridiculously overpowered. i have no problems with exceedingly rare overpowered items, but the effects of dupeing has all but reduced armour choices in D2 to enigma on all, except for a few specific builds. i'd like to see a cast-delay on teleport that can only be reduced by hard-points into Teleport (eg: sorc's only can have super-fast tele). but then, i'd also like to see Dragon-Flight tied to FCR rather than its fixed 23frame cast animation.
the other main imbalance is Magic Damage. if everything else can be resisted/sorbed, then we should be able to do the same for Magic damage.
however, d2 has never been balanced for PvP. hopefully some mythical 1.12 patch will attempt to iron out some of the gross discrepancies.
specifically, i'm thinking of elemental Sorb. imho integer sorb needs to be removed altogether and %sorb capped at ~15-20%. i dont mind is someone pulls out a wisp, but two wisps and a t-gods completely zonks most lit-based attackers (add in a Lo blackthorns and that 50k lit sosa is a healing fountain). Elemental resistences should cap at 85% instead of 95%.
Enigma is ridiculously overpowered. i have no problems with exceedingly rare overpowered items, but the effects of dupeing has all but reduced armour choices in D2 to enigma on all, except for a few specific builds. i'd like to see a cast-delay on teleport that can only be reduced by hard-points into Teleport (eg: sorc's only can have super-fast tele). but then, i'd also like to see Dragon-Flight tied to FCR rather than its fixed 23frame cast animation.
the other main imbalance is Magic Damage. if everything else can be resisted/sorbed, then we should be able to do the same for Magic damage.
however, d2 has never been balanced for PvP. hopefully some mythical 1.12 patch will attempt to iron out some of the gross discrepancies.
I think the idea of having +1 Teleport on the Enigma Armor is fine, after all, I wouldn't want to imagine PvP with Sorcs teleporting, Pallys charging, and everyone else just walking?
But, the other mods on Enigma do make it overpowered. The 5% life, the 2 skills, the MF, the ridiculous amount of strength added. If some of those were removed then Enigma would just be a choice for teleport rather than a staple for saving skill points.
But, the other mods on Enigma do make it overpowered. The 5% life, the 2 skills, the MF, the ridiculous amount of strength added. If some of those were removed then Enigma would just be a choice for teleport rather than a staple for saving skill points.
BoNeFeTisH
Diabloii.Net Member
Agree with u guys! As in any 1v1 duel of course we would want to fit our equipment to the type of battle, and in case it is against elemental character, we all equipping absorbs. But, if we completely absorb elemental damage (e.g. 4 lo shields etc) than where is the thrill of a duel?
On the other hand, having no ressistances leads to easy kill. IMHO if dr is capped at % why Blizz's would not set a cap for resistances working in PvP. E.g doesn't matter how much absorb you wear but when dueling it always will be capped 70-100, just estimation. If elemental damge becomes ovepowered, we can have a penalty.
Still don't like enigma but if other mods than teleport will be taken away, it would be nice. I actually think, that teleport on enigma should be limited. 30-50 charges. That will lead to no endless teles (except sorcs).
But as to was mentioned, is there is any opportunity for us to share with blizz's the ideas for changing smth?
On the other hand, having no ressistances leads to easy kill. IMHO if dr is capped at % why Blizz's would not set a cap for resistances working in PvP. E.g doesn't matter how much absorb you wear but when dueling it always will be capped 70-100, just estimation. If elemental damge becomes ovepowered, we can have a penalty.
Still don't like enigma but if other mods than teleport will be taken away, it would be nice. I actually think, that teleport on enigma should be limited. 30-50 charges. That will lead to no endless teles (except sorcs).
But as to was mentioned, is there is any opportunity for us to share with blizz's the ideas for changing smth?