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pvp not balanced?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by DrZoidberg, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. DrZoidberg

    DrZoidberg Diabloii.Net Member

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    pvp not balanced?

    Do you guys agree with this? I understand they don't want the focus of the game to be on pvp, but with the majority of people still playing d2 being pvpers is this a good idea, is there a reason for this?
     
  2. konfeta

    konfeta Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    PvP is not being balanced in 1v1 because it is impossible to do so with the amount of variables present.

    Lack of "E-Sport" level of support for PvP is because it would force them to compromise the core of the game, PvE, or develop it completely separately (which is still basically compromising PvE by splitting up development time).


    So, yeah, its understandable. They are still making some effort into giving PvP fans something, but they are leaving hardcore competition support aspect to other games.
     
  3. Autti

    Autti Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    what is E-sport level of support? I've never really seen an "e-sport".

    Also, for things like PvP it really CAN'T be balanced until they start Beta testing and it's likely we will see updates soon into the games life for PvP balance.

    Calling it unbalanced at the moment is stupid.

    Also they way they are making it, it can be incredibly balanced, because skills will be tailored to PvP to allow very good balance that wont affect PvM
     
  4. exorte

    exorte Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    First, they said already they are balanced around team based.
    Second, they already said PvE and PvP skill are separate, they share the same name and do almost the same thing but have different stat, for example stun time or damage.

    The reason is because they want to focus the game around PvE and doesn't want a split player base between PvE and PvP, and Jay Wilson said that it is a game about searching for the best build.

    However, the developer did consider to make it balanced when the a person ask them in Q&A, but the crowd didn't like the idea of having a balanced game.


     
  5. satheron

    satheron Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    d2 pvp was never even close to being balanced.

    Obiviously the d2 pvp community never had a problem with this.
     
  6. Autti

    Autti Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    D2 PvP was actually pretty balanced, sure there wasn't a huge variety of classes, but that doesn't make it unbalanced.

    Hdins, WW Barbs, Javazon, Bowazon, Foher, Mage, Blizz sorc, FBer, WW sin, Hybrid Sin, Trap sin, Necro, (druids pretty much sucked pvp)
    All of these were viable builds and could beat each other when used skillfully.


     
  7. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    They said they have some that are geared toward PvP, but didn't say it couldn't be used in PvE as well. We'll know it's a pvp one, but it'll be available, especially since they say that the chars are the same ones in PvE.


    As for skills / effects changing, stun is a perfect example. Stun can keep a monster 100% stopped. In pvp, it'll just be temporary and rely on FHR.






    As for balance, D2 had it to an extent. It was only noticable when people apply skill. If just a pub of noobs, the Hdin seems king.

    In a decent GM duel, he's at the bottom.

    With holes in his attack and defense, he was easily exploitable. With limited tactics, he becomes predictable.




    All classes had their own counters. With some effort, even clear disadvantages were overcome. The only thing with clear cut advantages in GM melee.


     
  8. DrZoidberg

    DrZoidberg Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    No but it lead to the same build being made over and over. But i suppose with things like skill runes better crafted and rare items, repetitive builds will change in pvp and pve.


     
  9. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    There were cookie cutters, but there was a truck load of them.
     
  10. Autti

    Autti Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    Zoidberg your confusing balance with variety.
     
  11. sirroman

    sirroman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    e-sport is basically one thing: starcraft. Then it grew to add War3, DoTA and maybe something more, but basically it's still one thing: SC.

    Since SC2 was huge for Blizzard, they would really like to try something like that with D3.

    And yeah, they will balance in the beta and beyond, so no problem. The big difference is that in a e-sport they need to support the game with constant balance patches so that the game doesn't get stuck with some "killer build" and so that they can "shake things up" to add to the hype in the community. I don't think they should (would) do this with D3, the main point is PvE and the economy.


     
  12. cacophony

    cacophony Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    If there are only two viable PvP builds, total, then it will probably be balanced, but that would be a huge disappointment. It would suck. The "perfect" amount of balance would be a handful of viable builds per class. How much is a handful? 5? 8? 10? 20? I dunno, but it should definitely be more than 1.

    Anyway, I guess E-sport level balance means that cash-prize tournament promoters have to look at it and give the thumbs up. Considering the huge popularity D3 is going to have, they're going to let D3 into their shows, unless balance is so bad as to be unplayable. I mean, WoW arena balance is terrible compared to SC or SC2, but there's no way in hell the promoters could pass up that many potential viewers. D3 will be the same. The designers might say "no e-sport balance," but there will be e-sports around it.

    As for the "PvE and PvP on the same character" myth, that's not going to happen for the pro level guys, or even for most PvPers here on this forum. They are giving us a lot of character slots (supposedly), so there is really no reason not to have a gear-farmer and a dedicated PvP character. The "sponsor" and "gladiator" relationship. Remember, no gear acquisition from PvP, no dual-specs, and a gold cost to swap gems, enchants, whatever else you'd might want to tweak between PvP and PvE. They are deliberately encouraging niche characters, which isn't that big of a deal to me, but might annoy the more extreme PvP player.
     
  13. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    D2's balance is enough for a tournament.

    The problem with e-sport is, the Diablo community would likely tell some high tournament official to stick it if he gets too uppity or whines about a build that ends up EZPK in our hands.




    TBH, I occasionally like the A-hole attitude in BNet, just not when discussing anything logically XD
     
  14. Autti

    Autti Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    Who are these tournament officials? All the ladders i have been focused in other games have largely been community run and local (Australian) in mostly FPS games.

    I'm still trying to understand this "e-sport" thing, for Battlefield 2 my clan was in numerous money comps, does that count?

    Do they actually hold say in game balancing and mechanics?


    Cacophony is right though, a character can't PvP and PvM, sure it could get by but in D2 you would get smashed by any serious dueller with a PvM build. If i found a new ring or ammy that had slightly better stats (for example lets say it had more strength than my old one) i would completely rebuild my char for the extra 10-15 life i would get out of optimising my build with its new, better items.
     
  15. Sass

    Sass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    A player made difference will be made, but not one hard coded is what's meant.
     
  16. exorte

    exorte Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    Yea, after I saw the skills in Diablo3 at http://d3db.com/pc/, I'm already planning charater just for PvP. However they do notice this, in the Q&A someone ask if there are dual spec one for PvE and one for PvP, jay wilson aswnered there might be, it depends.
    Also WoW arena balance is already pretty good for a MMORPG. Many (MMO)game have huge spike in class %. Anyways if I learn one thing in SC2 multiplayer panel is that class/race % doesn't really means anything. I know people says wow arena is just RMP (I might be outdated since I haven't played for a long time), but it is just player preference. Why? Player usually stick with what they know instead of re-learning a new class. This is also seen in DotA. I haven't played for a year, but pro team usually just use those 30 or so heros out of like 90. It isn't that those 60 heros all can't be used, it is just player like to stick with what they know.

    For example: Starcraft 2 have a race distrubtion of something like Protoss: 37, terran: 37, Zerg: 25, but the win % is pretty good for zerg against other race. As a matter of fact it is PvT that have a problem.


     
  17. Glass

    Glass Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    Blizzard knows a lot about balancing games. Enough to know when to give up. ;)


    It wasn't until recently though. From release Terran was overpowered and Zerg was underpowered. Then they nerfed Tanks/Reapers, increased Roach range and now Zerg is slightly OP.

    Which is the kind of situation they want to avoid for D3. By not having official eSport support having a class that is overpowered doesn't matter too much. And they won't be constantly releasing new patches altering things slightly to try and sort it out.

    And based on the booing at the Q&A towards the person who wanted eSport support and class balance, people don't want it to be an eSport.
     
  18. theeliminator

    theeliminator Well-Known Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    I guess the PvP in D3 should be looked at as Rock,Paper, Scissors. and If there is a team of three there will always be A Rock to counter the Scissors, A Paper to Counter the Rock, and a Scissors to counter the Paper.

    Also E-sports is just a gaming competition organization. Think of it as major league gaming.
     
  19. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    pvp balance is about the last thing i care about in D3. i say if they want to work on pvp balance they do it after they release the game
     
  20. Dahmer

    Dahmer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: pvp not balanced?

    I had a paladin that never lost from amazons, foher, mage, blizz sorc, fber, ww sin, hybrid sin or trap sin.
    Hammerdins only won if they were heavy teleporters, same goes for necro's and druids.
    Barbs only won if they had a good ow build and knew how to play.

    So that's one build that defeated pretty much everything, I wouldn't call that balanced.

    I completely agree with Apocalypse, I don't care about pvp balance.

    *edit*
    There were several pvp "leagues" with sets of rules that made everything a bit more balanced, let Blizzard hand us the game, we'll make it balanced ;)



     

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