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Discussion in 'PvP' started by tinncann25, Aug 31, 2006.
pvp jav guide, comments wanted
Why are you posting exactly the same thing to two places?
Also, I do not like your barb style. A good BvC will make lots and lots of trouble for you, be in with or without Dooms. And with Dooms, I've had no Javazon stand a chance. Also, just to be mean to a non-Enigma Javazon, a BvC can equip Fortitude and Thundergod's Vigor and you will barely tickle the barbarian.
I have heard that a lot from various players, but i have yet duel a barb that gave me much problem.
of course if someone on east wants to duel me my account is retired_jieshi2
i welcome the challenge. Prove me wrong.
ISO: 10 minutes of discussion on this forum w/o "BvC pwnz that!"
Youre, my hero!
Quoted for truth.
That would happen if there was no BvC/Enigma Barb section in a guide.
As for the Javazon issue, I've died a few times to javazons when I've been whirling recklessly with Grief+Beast. But that should change if I get a life/mana GC. Even a 40 mana one will give me 700ish mana with pubsetup. A 59 one would give me 750ish mana. And that's by far enough for whirling:
17 mana for teleport
2 mana for Leap
Leaves you with 681 mana to do whirls with. With my BvC's pubsetup, that would be 39 mana / whirl. 681 / 31 = 21.9, ~21. Now, let's say we only hit with Grief for about 900 PvP damage. That totals at 21 * 900 = 18900 damage. However, the Zon will most likely to have ~50% chance to dodge it. That gives our barb 10.5 hits, aka 10 hits. 10 * 900 = 9000 damage. However, this assumes 95% chance to hit. If the zon has 8k def (pretty high I think), my BvC would have 54% chance to hit that Zon. That would make it 21 * 0.54 * 0.5 = 5.67 hits, aka ~5. 5 * 900 = 4500. Now, does a Zon have 4500 life? No. Now let's count in blocking and max DR: 900 * 21 * 0.54 * 0.5 * 0.25 = 1275.75. An amount of life a Javazon can most likely get.
However, this is all just theory and it's assuming quite a bad case for the barb. With Beast he would do a little better.
Let's take the beast into it:
21 hits, 20 being grief+beast, 1 being grief only
This nets us (21 * 900) + (20 * 360) = 18900 + 7200= 26100 damage.
26100 * 0.54 * 0.5 * 0.25 = 1761.75
It improved by exactly 486 damage. However again, there's no OW or CB taken into account. If we take 2x OWs added to it (which is quite fair as we have 25% OW on 21 grief hits and 50% ow on 20 beast hits), that nets us 1084.375 more damage, totaling us at:
I have no idea if a Zon has this much or less life, as I've never played one. However I'm just proving that even if the barb whirls constantly to the ends of his mana, he can hurt the zon quite a bit. Also, I think I gave the zon fairly high defense (8000). Now if we were to take into account the high possibility of 1-2 manapots, that right away doubles or triples the damage. With double that damage, the zon is sure to be dead.
Ce Olba, so you're theorising 21 whirls.
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but in 21 Whirls as CS Zon can get in at LEAST 10 hits (i'm being extremely generous to the Barb here)...
Now again say an 8k life barb, again being generous, this means that the Zon has to do 800 pvp damage per CS.
We all know this is highly likely...
If you want to absorb etc, then thats your perogative. I will simply say that its not dueling....
You are correct.
You should me a CSzon that does 19k damage.
19 000 * 0.17 * 0.25 = 807.5
Let's take a more realistic number, say, 11k.
6062 / (11000 * 0.17 * 0.25) =
6062 / 467.5 =
So with a realistic amount of damage the zon will need 13 hits to kill the BvC.
If you need to have your opponent to have 75 tops Lightning resistance, your character is weak.
6062 / (11000 * 0.17 * 0.15 - 40) =
6062 / 240.5 =
25.2058212 = ~26
So, it's 13 or 26 hits.
Now, let's take Fortitude for fun:
6062 / (11000 * 0.17 * 0.1 - 40) =
6062 / 147 =
41.2380952 = ~42
It's not "absorbing". Absorbing would mean "to take something into", aka in this case, to get more life for the lightning damages.
a barb can never take any half decent javazon without absorb (yes, tgod IS absorb) in a GM situation. With tgod it's pretty evened out and generally skewed towards a tri-whirling bvc, providing he doesn't run out of mana to let a javazon cs him to death.
That's according to my experience, of course
Apparently you do not know how the numerical absorb works. It's what turns the tide into healing instead of taking damage if the amount of damage you take is less than 40. Until then it's simply -40 damage.
I've beaten a teleporting fc zon played by Luder on these forums multiple times. It's not exactly the best possible zon, but it's still damn good, specially with the fc skills of Luder.
The only times I lose versus Javazons are when I get caught in their cs when I run out of mana. Well, most pub javazons are not much of a threat with a Holy Freeze flash + Leap.
Even though you haven't played for a long time, I still remember how I got severely beaten vs you. I never runned, I walked fury'ed you etc, when I got the chance I fc'd you or simply cs'd you. You were very offensive and leaped, tele'd untop tri-whirled me, and you didn't use tgods, so 2 hits was instant kill. I can only vouch that high mana + triwhirls > javazons, no stack / absorb included.
Well, I still lack some mana. I want to get a 40/50ish life/mana GC so that I can have 600ish mana with Ravens (I calculated and ended up with tops 644, ATM I got 652 with my FCR rings that got 64 and 70ish mana). I would only lose 20 life, which is 48 life after bo, and I can easily get that back with 1 level.
Oh, by the way, I've not played for about 16 weeks. I stopped playing for some time when my friend commit a suicide, and that was about 16 weeks ago.
When I got back, the errors were doubled if not tripled from what they used to be, so I simply couldn't play anymore. Well, in less than 2 weeks I will be getting a new monitor (19' TFT, atm using 15' TFT) and then we will re-install all of the drivers for my PC and see if that does something.
Also, I'm not sure if you picked it up, but I started writing a BvC guide a few days ago. I'm just barely finished with the pubsetup (still haven't gotten to the charm-part though). It might take some time due to me wanting to gather posts here and due to my long school days (38 hours/week) and lots of homework to do.
I dont think that right at all asumming i wear forti + my Lo kira no tg i will still have high res. Secondly a good tri WW does not even need a tg take it from me, if i tri ww crap i lose, if i do it proper i usally do not lose. Also although tg is prolly needed for the best, also if i bring out the doom and say no + res or tg i can still win.
Yeah i know i expect ppl to now cry to me about Doom is bm but hey its a weap.
@ Luder its true the high mana setup does make a difference before i had the high mana setup there was a good chance i could run out during a tri ww and get CS to death now cuz i have a high mana setup it makes a hell of a difference.
I rarely bother with Fortitude as I mainly duel pub CSzons who are ignorant townguarding crappers who get killed in a few whirls anyways. As for scripters, most of them use Enigma or BTals and run away from you so that if you use Fortitude you will end up eating lots of damage due to running.
Each pubzon that hosts me gets a faceful of dual dooms. Be it a lamer or not.
As I said, the only times I die are when I run out of mana, and that's why I plan to get a 40/50ish life/mana GC as it will give about a hundred or so more mana. Then I can start using Trangs + Ravens in pubs at all times (as I will have enough mana to teleport versus necs and sorcs and I will also have 40% FCR).
If someone has a similar barb to ce olba i would like to duel it
I don't want to theorize on paper, we could go all day, I just want a first to 5 duel.
I'm quite sure there's a bunch of skilled people with similar builds to mine. The charms might be a little different though, as instead of going for low life/ar scs or max/ar/life scs, I use 3* ar/life GCs. Once I get my PC going, I will also get a life/mana GC.
OT: So far I've written 9*A4s of BvC guide. I've gone through the skills, the pubsetup, and now I'm comparing, explaining and presenting different charm setups, most of them I've present somewhere on this forum earlier.
I find it funny that whereas I've barely begun my guide, it's still 4 pages longer than your Javazon guide. Well, I'm not saying your guide would be bad or anything, my BvC guide is just too thorough (wastes 5-6 rows on explaining each setup). As if I will explain everything thoroughly, there should be no questions left. However, the guide will be quite long. Or so it seems by the amount of text I've gotten together and the part I'm at now.
I forgot to thank you for your kind words. Also, all I have to say is that it takes practise and skill. And yes, I've beaten every javazon I have met so far. The only times I've actually died were due to losing mana or being jumped, or then the javazon was using fc script (And I still beat a ton of godly bb+bt+phoenix/ss/sanctuary+griffon+etc fc scripters).
Well, the (good) javazon I duelled can tank way more than 2hits. Most of the time they just dodge/blocked my whirls whilst getting few hits in, and they hurt. Against a good one I'll need on approximately 9 whirls to bring them down.
And mana is an issue, you have to agree on that.
+160-200% Enhanced Defense(varies)
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
5% Chance To Cast Level 7 Fist Of The Heavens When Struck
Level 7 Fist of the Heavens: Lightning Damage 240-290 , Holy Bolt Damage: 76-86
+20 Lightning Absorb
10% To Maximum Lightning Resist
+20 To Strength
+20 To Vitality
+3 To Lightning Fury (Amazon Only)
+3 To Lightning Strike (Amazon Only)
Need to say more?
You can go by your own definition of 'absorb', but blizzard disagrees with you.
if on east ladder i can duel you
still workin on decent 3 ww but it will be agood practice
I can duel you if you're on EuLadder.