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PVP - hammer/smite/charge

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Gotcha, Sep 27, 2006.

  1. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    PVP - hammer/smite/charge

    I need any links anyone can give for this PVP build varient:

    Hammer/charge/smite

    Thanks for any link help, could not find in the general build link.
     
  2. Thoridian

    Thoridian IncGamers Member

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    Add me to the list of people that are in need of a liberator guide >.>
     
  3. mythos

    mythos IncGamers Member

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    I was thinking about writing a liberator guide. But, I've only been playing mine for a short while (still not yet finished leveling, only at 91 when i'm going to 93) so I don't know that I'm qualified enough yet.
    Still, what I've done so far is working quite well.

    My base build at lvl 93 will be
    Max Hammers
    Max Concentration
    Max Vigor
    Max blessed Aim
    15 Charge
    1pt all pre-req's for the above skills
    1 smite
    1 holy shield
    1 salvation (haven't used this much yet, so it may not be worth it)
    1 meditation (barely used this either, but it does come in handy for mana regen if you're not into stealing gold for mana pots, i normally just take the pots they drop, for some reason people don't complain about that :/) - not to be used for extended periods to regain life, cos thats just lame. If you're going to die, don't hide and medi, fight it out and take it like man. There's worse things in life than losing a d2 duel.

    Stats :
    Strength - I added about 40 for CoA, but this will vary depending on your torch/anni.
    Dex - enough for max block with lowest + stats + skills gear on. Always cast bc before casting holy shield
    Vit - rest
    Energy - base

    Gear :
    Helm - CoA - berber
    Armor - Enigma
    Ammy - Highlord when charging a lot
    - Mara when casting a lot (i mainly use it in hvh or if there are a mix of cold/lite/fire users in the game)
    Weapon - Greif, currently I have a zerk for the range.
    Glove - Trang
    Shield - spirit sacred rondarche (targe would be marginally better though). Make it in a 40+ res base shield and keep rerolling until you get 35fcr. 34fcr is not good enough.
    Boots - Tri resist with 10fhr 20frw. Mine are legit, dupes have better stats. Using them is up to you. I prefer not to.
    Ring 1 - ravenfrost 20dex 200+ar
    Ring 2 - Bk, some people like dual stats/res/life rings, but if you build it in you can't use wisp/dwarf, fcr rings later
    Belt - Spider
    Charms - anni/torch, 5 pcomb w/ life, rest are sc's with life/res mods for stacking. I'll probably drop back to 4pcomb once I'm finished leveling.

    switch cta/pally spirit.

    Stash (ie crutch)
    200 lite res sheild
    200 cold res shield
    2 wisp
    dwarf
    hotspurs/nokozan
    T-god/Dungo/snowclash
    wizspike for 125fcr for leveling
    Kira - thul
    Kira - ort

    Results:
    9-9.5k hammer
    75 fcr
    3.5k life
    86 fhr
    36 dr
    75 res all w/ good lite stack from life/sc's

    Stuff I'd like to experiment with:
    Eternity for revives - its bm but some people have got it coming!!
    Doom zerk for freeze and +2 skills, but smite dmg would suffer.
    Hoto/fcr ring for 125fcr in HvH duels
    20 fcr ammy for gear switches to retain 75fcr
    Grief phase blade for extra smite speed.

    Basic tactics
    Bear in mind I haven't been playing a long time and I only duel in ladder pubs where the quality of opponent is questionable.

    V's sorc's, pnb necro (non stackers), bowzon, trapper, foher - charge, then smite them to death. Some may require gear switches like t-gods, etc

    v's barbs, smiters, most melee classes - drop 2 hammers, charge, repeat. My hammer skills are still pretty crappy, but doing this will kill a lot of people. tele stomp if you think you can get away with it. but basically try and desynch so your hammers are invisible. Then try to herd them back towards those hammers

    I hope some of that can help, or at least prompt someone with more experience to correct my mistakes or give better ideas.


    Wow, I managed to get all that in the quick reply box......
     
  4. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    does a libby use smite? I thought they used just charge/hammer?
     
  5. RetroStar

    RetroStar IncGamers Member

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    They could, anything with 1pt smite and grief is powerful enough.
     
  6. diet_sushi

    diet_sushi IncGamers Member

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    Id go with this setup instead of CoA build

    08 valk
    Rare 2+ Skills/stat/10 fcr ammy
    Grief PB (35+ias to hit 6 frame smite with conc)
    stormshield
    enigma
    trang/magefists for gloves
    arachs

    which give 30 + 20 + 10 + 20 which gives 80 fcr you could go for 125 BP if you went with two 10 fcr rings and spirit but I would just remain with the 75 BP since you sacrifice too much to hit the next BP

    and max smite instead of charge since you get a bonus from vigor already and you're probubly going to telesmite a bit with hammers so Id focus more on smite and less on charge
     
  7. mythos

    mythos IncGamers Member

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    When you're too close to charge your attack reverts to normal, ie no skill. At this point smite is really good. It always hits and with greif does pretty handy damage. I mainly use it v's bowzons/sorc's when they dodge/block my charge to keep the pressure on them. If you get a namelock then you can always switch back to charge when they try to run/tele away. I'm about to try a pb instead of a zerk for faster smite speed.
     
  8. mythos

    mythos IncGamers Member

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    The drawbacks to this build are 08 valk's are all dupes (this is especially true on ladder where I play and it sux that they are on ladder), plus they're even more expensive and harder to get than CoA. The ias is not needed, nor is the frw, imo. If you're into dupes, use wiz gloves. But I'm not, so i don't.

    You lose 86fhr bp when you use ss instead of spirit. You also lose res, mana, vit, and 2 skills. Fire res is the hardest to cover with this build. SS has none (or 22 with um), Whereas a pally spirit has up to 45. This means you can carry more 20 life 11 lite/cold res sc's for foh/blizz stack.
    The main reason I use highlords is to get my deadly strike over 50%. 20% from grief and 30+% from highlords. The skill, ias, lite res are all just gravy. A 20%fcr ammy would be nice to have for when you switch out spider for t-god or dungo. But i don't use dungo much. I'd rather have my 75fcr and 36dr than 48fcr/50dr.

    Why telesmite, when you could telehammer?
    1 pt smite is enough. I like the extra dmg/ar from investing in charge. I charge more than I smite. Having massive charge dmg means you can sometimes get a 1 hit kill, saving you the need to smite. Extra points in smite won't help you kill anyone, that you can't kill with 1 pt smite.
    Plus its a Liberator which is hammer/charge. If you go hammer/smite, then I think it's called a Vanquisher, and there's a guide for those on these forums.
     
  9. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    I plan to use spirit since I have found a 45 res sacred rondache & am planning on eventually using a +2/10% FCR ammy. I have crafted a few bad ones for temp ones to use and do not want to use any general common dupes, etc.

    Can a phaseblade reach 6 frames smite with just 35% Ias on it or do you need to put a point into fant for flashing to get 6 frames?

    I am new to pally builds so forgive me for the stupid question on ias/smite with grief phaseblade.
     
  10. mythos

    mythos IncGamers Member

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    You don't need that 10fcr ammy. Just keep rerolling your spirit to hit 35fcr. That plus spider and trangs gives the 75fcr bp.
    Any greif pb will hit 7fps smite without fanat. Using highlords, it will still be 7fps. Highlords and greif zerk gets 8fps. Deadly strike does not work with smite, put its great for charge.
     
  11. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    I will need the 10% ammy I think. I was planning to use thundergods for the belt and a 10% FCR ring. With this I will not need any str in items with a 20 str ring.

    My setup will be like this: Let me know of options:

    COA/berber
    +2 pally/10% FCR ammy
    grief PB
    enigma (MP)
    trangs gloves
    thundergods belt (all around belt with great help on LR side)
    Giving up spidy for this belt:sad2:
    1 10% FCR ring with 20 str/resist mods
    Ravenfrost
    tri resist boots with 10% FHR/30% FRW
    Spirit shield 35% FCR
    Charms 2 skill/lifers
    All the rest small 20 lifers with resists

    Am I way off on the items. I am thinking 10-11k hammer damage is plenty.
    The stacking of resists will be to make the build very stackable along with high life.
     
  12. mythos

    mythos IncGamers Member

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    I currently use 5 pcomb's with life and get 9-9.5k hammer, which is enough. I'll probably drop back to 4 once I get my last 2 points in blessed aim. The only problem I have with your fcr ring/ t-gods is that if you build them in, then you lose flexibiltiy. ie no sorb rings etc without sacrificing CoA. If you're dueling a barb, you might want a dungo/fcr ring/ammy setup for more dr. You won't be able to that and wear CoA.
    You also lose a skill from bk/spider/highlord which can add to your bo lvl. So you might not get that much extra life by saving 40ish pts into strength (ie 20 str fro t-god, 20 from your ring).
    I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong, I don't think I have enough experience to make that judgement call. Nor have I done the math on the life (i'm just guessing there). I'm just trying to point out what I see as the downside to your setup. I think that sometimes having some flexibility is better than having a few hundred extra life.
     
  13. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    Ya, I see what you are saying. I hate, although, having to rely on abs rings and never use them. If I loose to real BM people so be it. You may be right for the general build though, to not be dependent on the str from ring, to save a few life points. I will have to ponder over this as I lvl my final PVP character. I may have to add a few skillers above the 2 I have currently. I would like to keep the 9-11k hammer damage. I hope others have some comments on this type of build and ideas.

    Thanks for all the imput
     
  14. mythos

    mythos IncGamers Member

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    hey, np! Like I've said a few times, don't take my word as gospel. I'm just bouncing idea's around and mentioning whats worked for me. If people question my approach, I will hopefully learn more and improve my libby.

    I mainly use sorb when ppl are being really bm. I use it to increase my survivability in 2v1 or worse situations. Sometimes its nice to be able to pk the annoying people. If its 1v1, I normally don't bother. Max or increased res > sorb.
     
  15. uptoolayte

    uptoolayte IncGamers Member

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    I ditched trangs for a +15str +9Dex 20ias cold light res gloves. To make up the 10 fcr I needed to hit 75 I use a +2 pally 10fcr +65 life +res amulet. The rest of my setup includes:

    ber ber coa
    Grief pb
    45 base res 35fcr spirit shield
    10 fcr +str +mana +cold/fire res ring
    raven
    arach's
    Eth treks

    3 Pcombats
    rest small +20 life/res/ar/def charms

    I do 10k hammers, and have 4000+ life with this setup.
    I keep a hoto, trangs, a +30 str +2 pally skills +20 all res amulet to switch all out to make a pure hammerdin with 125 fcr.
     
  16. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    I am so new to this build. I plan to use smite a lot more then charge for damage unlike the general libby build where I gave up last ladder on the build due to the cost of making the build.

    I am slowly leveling up and now am to the point where I have to make a decission. Where to put the extra points. If I Dump the remaining into charge it probably will not matter since my AR will be to low and I plan on using charge/vigor mainly for desynch and getting the first hit to switch to smite or hammer, etc.

    I have thought about the build a lot and here are my thoughts:

    My hammer damage will be in the 9k - 10k range with 2 skillers/lifers.
    Instead of going with the idea of a general libby and getting small ar/life charms for the AR help I plan on stacking mega resists with small life/resist charms. I should be able to get easily in the 300's with all resists, especially lightning for the fohers, etc. I plan to use thundergods as my main belt with a 10% FCR ring and ammy to reach the 75% BP. Also in case I need 95% resists with massive stack already I can switch out minimal gear COA/2 Lo's for 95% or Hotspurs/COA Vex + something for 95% FR. Cold will need some slight help but hey it is hard to cover every element. I will always have a little help with the ravenfrost anyway.

    Where would you put the added skills. I think smite with grief PB will not need any real help but I am thinking either dumping all into HS, Smite or charge. I like charge but I am not sure adding like 15 skills into it will help if my AR is to low. I may be totally wrong here though since I do not have the number difference Damage/AR with the added +15 skills.

    Where should I dump the added + skills (smite/HS/Charge or should I put in an aura?

    I was trying to slightly make something a little different then the general libby build by concentrating on smite/grief PB but this hybrid seems to be falling back into the general libby build since everyone uses grief.

    Also:

    Anyone have good ideas on hotkey setups?
     
  17. diablotradez

    diablotradez Banned

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    i dont think its good to not use highlords on a liberator since with lvl 90+ highlords and grief gives you a 50% ds with charge the damage is big but w/e works for you.
     
  18. Gotcha

    Gotcha IncGamers Member

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    I do not think I will be getting many kills with charge having a low AR (no small charms with AR/life, etc. to pump up AR) so I am not sure highlords will mean a lot. I may be wrong, I have yet to really duel with the character yet. I will have to do some extensive tests with the highlords to see just how much of a factor it really is. The main concern for me may be more the smite then the charge. I am thinking charge may get a few kills but will mainly be for desyn/getting around/desyn hammer and for the initial hit/knockback into hammers, etc. I will have to play around with this a little since I would have to ditch the thundergods and go with spidy to regain the 75% FCR since the one ring slot has a raven (a must) and the helm must be a COA/ber ber in order to really help on both sides and also retain the FHR of 86%.

    Does the DS work with smite? I forget.
     
  19. mythos

    mythos IncGamers Member

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    DS does not work with smite. I get about half my kills with charge. I find it easier to charge kill sorc's trappers zon's boners, etc than to desynch hammer them. Thats why i like highlords so much.
    If you don't want to invest extra points in charge, I'd look at putting them in Holy Shield for def and lower dex for max block. Or in Lit Res for the passive increase to max lite res. 2pts = 1 increase in max lite res. ie 20pts will mean you max lite res can be 85, without even putting on t-gods.
     
  20. diablotradez

    diablotradez Banned

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    whats the point if you dont use charge when you are a liberator? i only smite people when they have a shiver of life left for a easy kill. 10k damage charge with 50% ds is too good just need to get about 10K+ ar
     

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